World Traveler,
My U Conn "Huskies" are moving along nicely.
How are your Kentucky Wildcats prevailing ? :down:
NH/BB's
My U Conn "Huskies" are moving along nicely.
How are your Kentucky Wildcats prevailing ? :down:
NH/BB's
DELTA tapped out
- Thread starter luvthe9
- Start date
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
Sadly, my Wildcats are through. But I was proud of their comeback towards the end of the game. I understand this was their 1st ever meeting w/ UConn. Mr. Sparks has a nice little career ahead of him – beautiful 3 point shots!
Thank you for the more civilized return to conversation. I believe we all benefit from it. It also helps when we state out opinions as “I believe†rather than fact. For instance, it is opinion only that DL will downsize further in any other hubs. It is also solely my opinion re: any consolidation that may occur in the industry since I am certain there is no definite play by any airline to do any consolidating and if they did I am certainly not privy to it.
However I will say that the ability of an airline to acquire is not driven as much by how much money they have (by that measure AA is the only airline that could acquire anyone and I’m not sure they would be at all comfortable with parting with their cash stash and potentially not being able to replenish it. Given that every legacy airline has exhausted balance sheets using guidelines that are used in every other industry, the only way consolidation will occur is if management of the acquiring airline can convince bankers and investors they can do a better job of running an airline than the acquiree’s management can do. I believe it is because HP has managed their airline through severe difficulties better than other airlines have done that they were given the green light to acquire US.
I also am beginning to think that NHBB’s proposal about AA acquiring NW might have some credibility but only if AA agrees to keep both MSP and DTW at fairly viable levels. AA certainly doesn’t need 3 hubs within 500 miles of each other but DTW and MSP are big enough markets that they should be able to support a very large focus city or medium hub without cutting in on ORD. Further, NW’s Airbus fleet could go a long way to replenishing AA’s fleet, esp. allowing the A330s to replace the 777s over the Atlantic and using the 777s to develop the Pacific.
Thanks for the clarification re: wages. I agree that the outstanding issues w/ DL and the pilots are non-wage related which are much harder to quantify. It is for that reason that I think an agreement can be reached and both parties can be considered to have “held the line.â€
Please do clarify for me exactly what are current pay rates for DL pilots under the interim agreement and what the proposed cuts are. Is it correct that the “requested†rates from DL are 5% more than the interim or is that no true? You can simply reference the rates in a particular reply. Thanks, I think this is important to understand. And I have “bashed†labor at both DL and UA for the role they have played in getting their companies in the position they are in now. That’s the beautiful thing about having non-union employees – they can’t be blamed for the company’s problems. 50,000 DL employees are off the hook right from the start. And DL will not take anything they cannot get from the pilots out of the hides of the non-contract employees. That is an invitation for them to unionize and we know DL is not about ready to let that happen.
Thank you for the more civilized return to conversation. I believe we all benefit from it. It also helps when we state out opinions as “I believe†rather than fact. For instance, it is opinion only that DL will downsize further in any other hubs. It is also solely my opinion re: any consolidation that may occur in the industry since I am certain there is no definite play by any airline to do any consolidating and if they did I am certainly not privy to it.
However I will say that the ability of an airline to acquire is not driven as much by how much money they have (by that measure AA is the only airline that could acquire anyone and I’m not sure they would be at all comfortable with parting with their cash stash and potentially not being able to replenish it. Given that every legacy airline has exhausted balance sheets using guidelines that are used in every other industry, the only way consolidation will occur is if management of the acquiring airline can convince bankers and investors they can do a better job of running an airline than the acquiree’s management can do. I believe it is because HP has managed their airline through severe difficulties better than other airlines have done that they were given the green light to acquire US.
I also am beginning to think that NHBB’s proposal about AA acquiring NW might have some credibility but only if AA agrees to keep both MSP and DTW at fairly viable levels. AA certainly doesn’t need 3 hubs within 500 miles of each other but DTW and MSP are big enough markets that they should be able to support a very large focus city or medium hub without cutting in on ORD. Further, NW’s Airbus fleet could go a long way to replenishing AA’s fleet, esp. allowing the A330s to replace the 777s over the Atlantic and using the 777s to develop the Pacific.
Thanks for the clarification re: wages. I agree that the outstanding issues w/ DL and the pilots are non-wage related which are much harder to quantify. It is for that reason that I think an agreement can be reached and both parties can be considered to have “held the line.â€
Please do clarify for me exactly what are current pay rates for DL pilots under the interim agreement and what the proposed cuts are. Is it correct that the “requested†rates from DL are 5% more than the interim or is that no true? You can simply reference the rates in a particular reply. Thanks, I think this is important to understand. And I have “bashed†labor at both DL and UA for the role they have played in getting their companies in the position they are in now. That’s the beautiful thing about having non-union employees – they can’t be blamed for the company’s problems. 50,000 DL employees are off the hook right from the start. And DL will not take anything they cannot get from the pilots out of the hides of the non-contract employees. That is an invitation for them to unionize and we know DL is not about ready to let that happen.
the rates I quoted include the pay cut from the interim agreement. The full requested cut from management would be another 5.5% on top of the cuts agreed to in the interim agreement.
And the posted NW rates already include the proposed paycuts they are voting on. So you can see that the proposed DAL pilot rates are much lower than most other airline pilot rates. Essentially DAL is going for broke against the pilot payrates in addition to scraping their retirement.
The that fair or just opportunistic?
Opps!
Should read: Is that fair or just opportunistic?
World Traveler,
It "appears" that we have a bit of a dialog going !!
I'm not quite as gungho on NW/AA. Why you might ask?
Former Moderaator pointed out a while ago, that in these most TRYING $$$ of times, acquireing a specific route(China) might be more prudent, than acquireing a whole, or purposely "reduced" airline.
But, if there is one thing certain, in THIS most UNFORGIVING business, It's "TIME WILL TELL"
NH/BB's
It "appears" that we have a bit of a dialog going !!
I'm not quite as gungho on NW/AA. Why you might ask?
Former Moderaator pointed out a while ago, that in these most TRYING $$$ of times, acquireing a specific route(China) might be more prudent, than acquireing a whole, or purposely "reduced" airline.
But, if there is one thing certain, in THIS most UNFORGIVING business, It's "TIME WILL TELL"
NH/BB's
What the Hell?!? You don't want to see AA hubs in MSP and DTW?!?
I've never really been in favor of AA acquiring all of NW either, but plenty of internet posters assert that the Fifth Freedom rights (Japan) cannot be sold by NW - they somehow have to stay with the corporation.
My opinion is that those posters are full of it (after all, how do they think that UAL got their Fifth Freedom rights in the first place?) but if those rights have to stay with Northwest Airlines (the corporation), then I'm certain that AA's lawyers can figure out a way to structure the deal so that AA acquires NW (or vice versa) and that AA ends up with the valuable NW assets. B)
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
I’m not terribly fond of the idea of AA buying anyone because they will have to dismantle an aweful lot of any acquiree to get the few pieces that are worth something. Part of my belief that an AA acquisition of NW might be worth more than some people give it is the fleet issue. AA has an issue of replacing 300 MD80s over the next decade and it won’t be a cheap process no matter how you slice it. While the MD80s could very well prove to be as long-lived as the DC9s, I don’t think AA wants to be flying 80s vintage airplanes in 2015. Further, even though the MD80 has fuel burn well below the A320 and 737NG families, no one has yet to come out with a re-engine mod for the MD80 even though there are easily 500 MD80s in the AA and DL fleets alone that could be candidates. Even though some of NW’s A320s are older models, 200 plus Airbuses from NW would tremendously reduce AA’s capital expenditures in the next decade and, in the case of the A330s, free up the 777s for Pacific expansion.
I don’t think the NRT authorities are tied to NW either, FWAAA. The US government has consistently maintained that international aviation rights are the property of the US government and they can allocate them as they see fit. The US government has also taken the consistent approach that any government that refuses to transfer rights from one to another US airline will face the wrath of the US DOT – and no country yet has succeeded in refusing to transfer those rights.
See my separate posting on transatlantic route performance.
I don’t think the NRT authorities are tied to NW either, FWAAA. The US government has consistently maintained that international aviation rights are the property of the US government and they can allocate them as they see fit. The US government has also taken the consistent approach that any government that refuses to transfer rights from one to another US airline will face the wrath of the US DOT – and no country yet has succeeded in refusing to transfer those rights.
See my separate posting on transatlantic route performance.
What the Hell?!? You don't want to see AA hubs in MSP and DTW?!?
I've never really been in favor of AA acquiring all of NW either, but plenty of internet posters assert that the Fifth Freedom rights (Japan) cannot be sold by NW - they somehow have to stay with the corporation.
My opinion is that those posters are full of it (after all, how do they think that UAL got their Fifth Freedom rights in the first place?) but if those rights have to stay with Northwest Airlines (the corporation), then I'm certain that AA's lawyers can figure out a way to structure the deal so that AA acquires NW (or vice versa) and that AA ends up with the valuable NW assets. B)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
FWAAA,
Believe me, It's TEMPTING !!!
WT,
I'm ALL in FAVOR of those A-330's !
But the flip side of "those coins" is this,
FWAAA and FM, "may" be correct about replaceing the A-300's with "shorter range" 777's
As for the Pacific,
IT'S ALL ABOUT CHINA....."PERIOD" !!!
SO,
Perhaps a few more routes like
JFK/HKG
ORD/HKG
DFW/PVG(?)
JFK/PEK
is a less costly investment, than a total aquisition of NW.
Don't forget, AA tested the waters to TPE, and pulled out.
(AA did'nt get that $4B, by operating unprofitable routes for too long. That plus the conce$$ions)
(Excluding DAL)
The bottom line is CASH !!
It's easy to spend, and VERY HARD(now-a-days) to come by
Mabey AA's A-300's will be the next NW/dc-9's ???
NH/BB's
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