Delta to keep SEA-HND (with conditions)
- Thread starter BABABOOY
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WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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or seek approval from the DOT which I am sure will allow no-ops on Christmas, New Years Eve - probably less than 5 days per year that DL and other carriers regularly reduce their schedule.
still - it is a victory for DL's SEA hub, proof that the DOT does not strip airlines of authority that they are using (and the route restarts Sunday), and that the rules of law are upheld.
still - it is a victory for DL's SEA hub, proof that the DOT does not strip airlines of authority that they are using (and the route restarts Sunday), and that the rules of law are upheld.
- Thread Starter
- #5
http://news.delta.com/2015-03-27-Delta-issues-statement-on-DOT-tentative-decision-on-Haneda-slots
"Delta thanks the U.S. Department of Transportation for its tentative decision to allow the airline to continue its service between Seattle and Haneda Airport in Tokyo. After an extensive review, the DOT concluded that Delta's Seattle-Haneda service provides the best public use of the available slot pair between the U.S. and Haneda Airport. Earlier this month, Delta resumed its nonstop service between Seattle and Haneda after a temporary seasonal suspension. Delta will operate year-round, nonstop flights between Seattle and Haneda as we continue to grow Delta's international gateway at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport."
"Delta thanks the U.S. Department of Transportation for its tentative decision to allow the airline to continue its service between Seattle and Haneda Airport in Tokyo. After an extensive review, the DOT concluded that Delta's Seattle-Haneda service provides the best public use of the available slot pair between the U.S. and Haneda Airport. Earlier this month, Delta resumed its nonstop service between Seattle and Haneda after a temporary seasonal suspension. Delta will operate year-round, nonstop flights between Seattle and Haneda as we continue to grow Delta's international gateway at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport."
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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thank you for standing with me for what we knew was the right thing for the DOT to do.
DL's position on the west coast as having the most gateways to Asia (SEA, PDX, and LAX) by US carriers and the only US carrier with 3 or more Asian flights from two separate gateways will be very marketable advantage.
eolesen
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- Jul 23, 2003
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Sorry Baboo, only a DL chest-thumper could define something that will cost DL a lot of money in the off season as a victory.BABABOOY said:
By eliminating the dormancy provisions, DOT has singled out DL's behavior. No other airline is subject to that, even at HND.
That's not a victory. It's probation.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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that's your assumption but you have no basis for your belief.
AA operated its JFK-HND route as long as it could withstand the financial drain but didn't go thru the same legal process to try to move it and UA now has that frequency.
AA could have kept the route authority if it had gone thru the right procedures but it didn't.
DL's route award has conditions but it is not going to be pulled; DL simply has to agree to the tighter restrictions and the route award will remain DL's.
and despite what some people believe, DL can ask for permission to reduce the schedules - it just cannot do it on its own without DOT approval or risk losing the route.
And to assume that DL's SEA-HND route can't make money with lower fuel prices is a pretty far stretch since DL didn't operate the route thru the off-peak winter period to know what kind of revenue DL could generate.
AA doesn't operate its own NRT services on a 365 day basis; it is highly unlikely that DL will be required to do the same.
DL recognized the value of the HND route awards when they came out and has operated 2 of them while HA got one, UA now has 1 on top of NH's two, and JL has two.
the HND routes now and in the past have been about as fairly distributed among the largest carriers and markets; the only difference is that the alliance with 3 changed from oneworld to Star.
AA operated its JFK-HND route as long as it could withstand the financial drain but didn't go thru the same legal process to try to move it and UA now has that frequency.
AA could have kept the route authority if it had gone thru the right procedures but it didn't.
DL's route award has conditions but it is not going to be pulled; DL simply has to agree to the tighter restrictions and the route award will remain DL's.
and despite what some people believe, DL can ask for permission to reduce the schedules - it just cannot do it on its own without DOT approval or risk losing the route.
And to assume that DL's SEA-HND route can't make money with lower fuel prices is a pretty far stretch since DL didn't operate the route thru the off-peak winter period to know what kind of revenue DL could generate.
AA doesn't operate its own NRT services on a 365 day basis; it is highly unlikely that DL will be required to do the same.
DL recognized the value of the HND route awards when they came out and has operated 2 of them while HA got one, UA now has 1 on top of NH's two, and JL has two.
the HND routes now and in the past have been about as fairly distributed among the largest carriers and markets; the only difference is that the alliance with 3 changed from oneworld to Star.
- Thread Starter
- #10
Sorry lesen, that's just sour grapes and you know it.
The simple argument was that Delta was going to loose this to AA.
They didn't.
Delta will operate it.
The simple argument was that Delta was going to loose this to AA.
They didn't.
Delta will operate it.
Kev3188
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eolesen
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- Jul 23, 2003
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Nah, not sour grapes at all.BABABOOY said:
AA getting the route was never my goal. If I had to choose, I would have rather seen Hawaiian get the nod, but regardless who got it, it didn't affect my airline.
What I wanted to see was the dormancy provisions strengthened, and that's exactly what happened.
http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/57664-dl-to-suspend-sea-hnd-flights/?view=findpost&p=1136357
http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/57664-dl-to-suspend-sea-hnd-flights/?view=findpost&p=1136189
Thanks, to DL's arguing the letter of the law versus the intent of the law, there's now a stricter definition of what dormancy is supposed to be, at least where this route is concerned.
I suspect we will see it introduced into the next set of route authorities as they come up.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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lower fuel prices which go hand in hand with
The route was going to do better with lower fuel prices anyway. Most financial experts around the world do not expect significant further strengthening of the dollar.
further, DLs domestic network at SEA will be MUCH stronger than it was a year ago - and DL will control far more of its own feed.
The assumption that DL will be forced to operate the route and doing so will cost them money is simply spoiler's comments.
and again, many people continue to miss that DL CAN operate at less than 365 days/year BUT it must ask the DOT first.
It isn't hard to realize that DL will be able to operate the route and ask the DOT for occasional breaks in service - but far less frequent than has been the case - and DL WILL lose the route if it doesn't ask for permission first. DL gets that part very clearly.
and more significantly, DL specifically said they agree to the terms the DOT is requiring just as they did before.
The DOT just left a huge barn door opened that DL drove thru. A couple summers into the operation of the flight and DL knows what it has to do to keep the route profitable on a year round basis. and don't discount that cargo can and will be a part of that.
lower fuel prices - the same ones that are tied to the stronger dollar and weaker yen - will help improve the profitability of the flight.
The route was going to do better with lower fuel prices anyway. Most financial experts around the world do not expect significant further strengthening of the dollar.
further, DLs domestic network at SEA will be MUCH stronger than it was a year ago - and DL will control far more of its own feed.
The assumption that DL will be forced to operate the route and doing so will cost them money is simply spoiler's comments.
and again, many people continue to miss that DL CAN operate at less than 365 days/year BUT it must ask the DOT first.
It isn't hard to realize that DL will be able to operate the route and ask the DOT for occasional breaks in service - but far less frequent than has been the case - and DL WILL lose the route if it doesn't ask for permission first. DL gets that part very clearly.
and more significantly, DL specifically said they agree to the terms the DOT is requiring just as they did before.
The DOT just left a huge barn door opened that DL drove thru. A couple summers into the operation of the flight and DL knows what it has to do to keep the route profitable on a year round basis. and don't discount that cargo can and will be a part of that.
Looks to me like the government just told DL that SEA-HND (and vv) is a must-fly route which means that DL will have to keep a spare plane at SEA each day until the HND flight has departed, or else risk a maintenance-related cancellation (which would subject DL to enforcement action). The practical effect is that DL will be forced to cancel one of the other SEA-Asia flights if the SEA-HND plane is broken. Either that or keep a spare plane in SEA. I don't recall the government ever requiring a 100% completion factor in any other route case.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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no, they did not say that. You quite simply are wrong. And you are reaching in an attempt to hope that AA has a chance of gaining the route.
the DOT did not say that DL is not permitted to cancel the flight due to operational issues.
the DOT did say that DL cannot fail to schedule the flight every day of the year UNLESS they get DOT approval.
and your consternations over the decision are all the more telling giving that you specifically said that you said that you didn't expect AA to win the award.
Even the DOT said that HA's proposal doesn't add value.
AA is the runner up.
but since there is one award and only one award, DL won it and AA did not.
the DOT did not say that DL is not permitted to cancel the flight due to operational issues.
the DOT did say that DL cannot fail to schedule the flight every day of the year UNLESS they get DOT approval.
and your consternations over the decision are all the more telling giving that you specifically said that you said that you didn't expect AA to win the award.
Even the DOT said that HA's proposal doesn't add value.
AA is the runner up.
but since there is one award and only one award, DL won it and AA did not.
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