DL asks for $5.9 Million for renovations.
- Thread starter 700UW
- Start date
Kev3188
Veteran
I'm all for improving the IRC, but it's a little sleazy for a company making the profits we are to hit the state up for a loan- and a forgivable one at that. What happened to our stated goal of being a good corporate citizen?
Separately: Jon Austin? Really? That's a name I haven't heard in awhile. I wonder what rock they found him under?
Separately: Jon Austin? Really? That's a name I haven't heard in awhile. I wonder what rock they found him under?
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
excuse me but NW opened the center with taxpayer funds and did the same thing with facilities all over MN. And may I add that NW, not DL, closed some of those facilities. What ever happened to that maintenance base out in the sticks?
A little balanced perspective? we can ONLY hope.
someone gets it
they'll likely get the loan anyway.
"It's a very good deal," Tony Sertich, IRRRB chairman, told Fox 9 News. "One hundred jobs is a big deal for rural Minnesota and the Iron Range, and this center has been around for 20 years. This is going to extend the life and expand jobs in our region."
apparently Georgia based companies can be just as good of corporate citizens in MN as a MN company can.
strike 999 for the IAM-pushing, DL-bashing tag team duo who have the honor of a film named in their honor.
A little balanced perspective? we can ONLY hope.
someone gets it
BTW, the reason why the state of MN gave out those funds is because the facilities generate jobs in a region of the state where they are needed. The remodeling of the facility will add even more of them.
they'll likely get the loan anyway.
"It's a very good deal," Tony Sertich, IRRRB chairman, told Fox 9 News. "One hundred jobs is a big deal for rural Minnesota and the Iron Range, and this center has been around for 20 years. This is going to extend the life and expand jobs in our region."
apparently Georgia based companies can be just as good of corporate citizens in MN as a MN company can.
strike 999 for the IAM-pushing, DL-bashing tag team duo who have the honor of a film named in their honor.
Kev3188
Veteran
WorldTraveler said:
How'd I know you'd be first in line to defend this? I swear, this company could traffic in pornography, and you'd call it a "unique revenue stream."
It's as predictable as it is laughable, but hey, at least you're consistent...
Anyway...
Are you talking about the DLH hangar? So, you rail against 700 "looking at the past," but it's okay for you to? Double standards sure are convenient, aren't they?
And yeah, these improvements could possibly create jobs. ICYMI, the first sentence in my post was...wait for it...
"I'm all for improving the IRC."
That's not the problem. The issue here is whether or not a forgivable loan is the ethical way to go. The efforts of "actual DL employees"-including those at the IRC- have resulted in fantastic profits (you know, the ones you've been ranting about non stop for the last few weeks?). 5.9M is a rounding error.
If they truly believed in being a good partner to the community and/or investing their people, the airline would use it's own resources to do so, instead of hitting the state up.
YMMV
Kev3188
Veteran
How come you don't blast sports teams for bleeding cities dry building elaborate facilities when their owners are often more than able to pay? TIF to build shopping center after shopping center? Local and state incentives given to corporations to move jobs? In the grand scheme of things $6 million is trivial, this is how corporations do business and it is hardly unique to DL.
Josh
Josh
Kev3188
Veteran
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
actually, Kev, I wasn't the first to defend the decision. Read again. Without bias.
If you had stopped when you said remodeling and expanding the res facility was good, we probably could have called it quits.
But you can't tout the history of NW in one thread and then trash DL for taking the exact same type of loan that NW accepted... the difference being that of the loans DL assumed responsibility for (the MSP loans), DL repaid them. What were the terms of the DLH hangar and how much did NW repay? Note that even with the original loan for the res facility, NW repaid a very small portion of the original loan.
Can you show us a thread where you have smacked NW for accepting loans? You have 10 years on the board and 7000+ posts, I'm sure if it is there it shouldn't be hard to find.
Í am all for putting the past behind where it isn't relevant... but you can't choose to smack DL while not also smacking NW for starting the whole process and then closing some of the very facilities for which it received subsidies.
It would be great for all companies to build what they need with their own resources but that isn't the way the world works. And Josh is absolutely right that cities spend hundreds of millions of dollars on sports stadiums while public schools just blocks away are crumbling and their teachers are being asked to make do with less and less.
This is an aviation chat forum. As long as you handle the topics consistently even within the industry, there should be no friction between us.
If you had stopped when you said remodeling and expanding the res facility was good, we probably could have called it quits.
But you can't tout the history of NW in one thread and then trash DL for taking the exact same type of loan that NW accepted... the difference being that of the loans DL assumed responsibility for (the MSP loans), DL repaid them. What were the terms of the DLH hangar and how much did NW repay? Note that even with the original loan for the res facility, NW repaid a very small portion of the original loan.
Can you show us a thread where you have smacked NW for accepting loans? You have 10 years on the board and 7000+ posts, I'm sure if it is there it shouldn't be hard to find.
Í am all for putting the past behind where it isn't relevant... but you can't choose to smack DL while not also smacking NW for starting the whole process and then closing some of the very facilities for which it received subsidies.
It would be great for all companies to build what they need with their own resources but that isn't the way the world works. And Josh is absolutely right that cities spend hundreds of millions of dollars on sports stadiums while public schools just blocks away are crumbling and their teachers are being asked to make do with less and less.
This is an aviation chat forum. As long as you handle the topics consistently even within the industry, there should be no friction between us.
Kev3188
Veteran
I believe it to be an issue of corporate ethics. I expect my employer to follow it's stated goal of being a good corporate citizen.
You & Josh's attempts to muddy the issue are duly noted, but here's the core issue: DL can clearly afford to build what they need with their own resources.
They have chosen not to. That, IMO, is the entire (and really only) problem with this proposed improvement.
Yep, it sure is an "aviation chat forum." Pretty sure Josh & I already covered that. Like I said, lemme know when a stadium thread pops up that you want me to check out.
In the interim, we can discuss, you know, aviation...
You & Josh's attempts to muddy the issue are duly noted, but here's the core issue: DL can clearly afford to build what they need with their own resources.
They have chosen not to. That, IMO, is the entire (and really only) problem with this proposed improvement.
Yep, it sure is an "aviation chat forum." Pretty sure Josh & I already covered that. Like I said, lemme know when a stadium thread pops up that you want me to check out.
In the interim, we can discuss, you know, aviation...
Kev3188
Veteran
'Cause this thread is about a DL facility in Chisholm MN.?
Point me in the direction of a thread covering either of those you mentioned, I'll check 'em out, and possibly weigh in.
Like I said; you can try to muddy this specific issue all you want, but at the end of the day, DL has more than enough money to execute these renovations without state aid. This is not nowhere near the scale of a terminal expansion (nor a public use facility), nor is it an air service issue.
Point me in the direction of a thread covering either of those you mentioned, I'll check 'em out, and possibly weigh in.
Like I said; you can try to muddy this specific issue all you want, but at the end of the day, DL has more than enough money to execute these renovations without state aid. This is not nowhere near the scale of a terminal expansion (nor a public use facility), nor is it an air service issue.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
so help me understand what is the line you would like to arbitrarily define that DL should follow but which didn't apply to NW? NW took about $10M to build the facility in the first place while DL is seeking $6M but NW couldn't have afforded it but DL can?
$10M was chump change for NW or any other network airline.
If you had posted even once somewhere against NW's use of state loans to build facilities or taking any government aid, then you'd have some credibility.
Anywhere, Kev?
Not nowhere?
$10M was chump change for NW or any other network airline.
If you had posted even once somewhere against NW's use of state loans to build facilities or taking any government aid, then you'd have some credibility.
Anywhere, Kev?
Not nowhere?
$10M was chump change for NW as $6M is chump change for DL now.
Two (supposed?) wrongs don't make a right.
DL is the corporate successor to NW, and could have done the ethical thing and not ask to feed from the public trough. Although, if the local/state officials are open to extortion, DL or any other corporation would be stupid not to take advantage.
As usual, I think you're way over-reacting, are way too sensitive to hear any criticism of beloved DL, whether it is justified or not. You're so blinded, infatuated, and obsessed with all thing DL that you've lost all ability to think clearly.
Two (supposed?) wrongs don't make a right.
DL is the corporate successor to NW, and could have done the ethical thing and not ask to feed from the public trough. Although, if the local/state officials are open to extortion, DL or any other corporation would be stupid not to take advantage.
As usual, I think you're way over-reacting, are way too sensitive to hear any criticism of beloved DL, whether it is justified or not. You're so blinded, infatuated, and obsessed with all thing DL that you've lost all ability to think clearly.
Similar threads
