DL creates LAX-SFO Shuttle

PS: You know that if DL would not have merged with NW they would still be at 15 ramp stations.

An inconvenient truth...


...thats why I can give two sh*ts about what the other airlines are doing. If D E L T A mainline ramp can do the work, we should be doing it. You want loyalty, open up the stations that should be open and stop looking at the other guys

+1

DL likes to frame itself as a market leader. When it comes to labor, they're a "leader" in the race to the bottom. Not one, but two handling companies for awhile, exponential growth of Ready Reserve, seasonal help, vendoring everything under the sun out, and so on...
 
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DL had ready reserves and summer help long before deregulation. There are many people who worked for DL as part-timers or ready reserves and who were content to do it for a season of their life, succeed, and then move on. DL has had reduced hour staffing models in just about every category except for pilots and even DALPA has permitted the company after heavy periods of pilot retirement to bring back retirees for limited periods of time. At the same time, DL has always had and will continue to have full-time permanent positions and employees who want to make a career and DL will provide the means for those people to do so with wages and benefits as well as working locations comparable to or superior what DL’s peers offer. The simple fact is that DL has long used a more flexible staffing approach and has found a steady market of people willing to work for DL on a less-than-career basis alongside career people.

Make no mistake that “Leadership 7.5” which ushered in DL’s outsourcing of the ramp in scores of cities was the single most disruptive event in DL’s history WRT to its employees and did volumes to damage the historically strong employee-employer relations DL had. But it happened almost 20 years ago, many of the people involved are either now retired or managed to adapt and have succeeded in their careers since, and those that are still there are willing to put in the past as history that for good or bad has happened with nothing more than can be done about it. And 7.5 was not just about the ramp but also about all airport staffing and also about gaining efficiencies throughout the company including with the unionized pilots.

As bad as 7.5 was, keep the context in mind. CO was emerging from rounds of BK and the power of BK to cut costs was becoming very obvious, EA – DL’s largest east coast competitor had failed and ATL had a big bulls eye on it for new entrants, NW was working thru the leveraged buyout that ushered in a wave of painful cuts throughout the company, and WN had made it clear that it intended to be a nationwide airline. Against that backdrop, DL became and remains the largest US airline east of the Mississippi where much of the turmoil since deregulation has been focused and DL has repeatedly been able to retain its market presence in markets that low fare carriers have tried to enter and grow.

Let’s also not forget that total labor costs in the industry (not just individual pay) – when AA and UA were much a higher percentage of the industry than they are today – were stratified with AA and UA at the top (along with some of US’ predecessors) and CO, DL, and NW in the middle of the pack and a lot of the newer carriers at the back. At 7.5, CO’s labor costs were a lot lower because of their BKs while at the time of the merger, DL and NW had identical total labor costs with DOT data showing that DL’s average compensation per employee was higher than at NW for the same group.

DL’s FT employees have often been higher compensated than their peers but have worked side by side with part-timers and ready reserve types who helped bring the averages down to the benefit of the full-timers.
Do I support what DL did in 7.5 and with the outsourcing of thousands of jobs? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Did DL strategically accomplish what it needed to do at the time and continues to build on the strength it gained because of 7.5. ABSOLUTELY.

And most significantly, DL has made clear that they never intend to do a “7.5” or cutting their employees’ pay and benefits again which is also why they have been more successful in retaining jobs and restoring pay and benefits post BK than any other carrier.

DL has no reason to undo the system that exists even post NW merger because DL has the flexibility to operate efficiently and profitably. But that also doesn’t mean they don’t have any incentive to reopen many of the same stations that were closed to DL people below wing 20 years ago. And DL also continues to have the same policy that any employee can bid into a station in a passenger service job if they can demonstrate they can do that job. Thus, there is no basis for arguing that DL employees are “restricted to” a relative handful of cities.

And it also doesn’t change that, just like the 717/CRJ strategy and the new/used airplane strategy, DL is moving in one direction by bringing work back to DL employees throughout the system while other carriers continue to increase the size of their contracted operations and close additional cities to their mainline employees. Other airlines, plain and simple, are eroding job security for their full-time permanent employees and continue to contract out larger and larger portions of their operation including flying to regional carriers.

DL’s history is different from that of other carriers but DL has managed to survive and thrive and continue to grow while the same cannot be said to the same degree for DL’s peer airlines and their employees. It is precisely because DL has succeeded at the strategic objectives in its core east coast markets that it now able to turn its strategic focus to the west including LAX.

This is good, healthy discussion.
 
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one source says DL is going for the jugular with its LAX growth.
http://www.fool.com/...he-jugular.aspx

"Los Angeles appears to be the next priority for Delta. So far, its strategy of growing in top business markets seems to be working. Delta has led the industry in unit revenue growth over the past two years, and has been reporting record profitability recently. Delta's expansion in Los Angeles is likely to put further pressure on rivals like United and American, while keeping Delta at the top of the airline industry."
 
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They might try to follow what UA/AA are attempting, but I don't necessarily think that's a given. I would, however, be willing to bet that they have a "nuclear option" lying in wait.

They are much more willing to farm out the ramp because we aren't customer facing. RA himself is on record as saying he wants "our people" in every station, and that the ramp will be looked at on a station-by-station basis. And before anyone asks, no, I don't have the link handy, but it's out there...



I don't think it was that high, but maybe? For some reason I wanna say there were 17 of them that cutover to ZW, but don;t hold me to it...

Thanks, that's what I said up thread but I figured maybe there were other costs associated with ramp staff and equipment that may make it more attractive/provide greater cost savings than passenger service. Not saying it is right, but you realize even many of the worlds top airlines known for their service outsource most all stations outside their principal base. I know JAL, for example, outsources most all international opps under close supervision of onsite management.

As I said a few weeks ago I picked up Levitt's book and it has been collecting dust on my nightstand but plan to dig into it this week. Will let you know what I think.

Josh
 
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Those types of threads drive me loco. Can't stand the incorrect info...makes me feel pedantic, which I don't like... If you wanna know if a DL station is staffed above, below, or both, just ask.

BDL has AMT's as well... everything but the ramp. Don't be surprised it's outsourced. With the Widget, staffed ramps are the exception, not the rule...
 
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Kev, at large international stations what arrangements does DL have? Pretty sure the only mainline overseas stations for AA is LHR (represented by UNITE) and NRT, I imagine NWA directly employed their personnel at AMS & NRT, no?

Josh
 
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DL has it's own AW people in many overseas stations. In others, there may be just a few (manager, supv., etc.), with the rest contracted out. No ramp outside of the US, unless you want to make a real stretch and count SJU...

NW had it's own people in NRT, including separate dispatch & meteorology depts. The ramp was handled by JASCO, and I assume they still do?

AMS was handled by KL, as were many Eurpoean cities (and in turn, NW employees handled KL in many places here in the US). LGW cargo, of all places, still had PMNW employees for quite awhile after that shift, though they too wound up changing...
 
Looks like FLL in indeed DL mainline both upstairs and down, and this confirmed MHT is handled by DGS. Surprised Bradley is outsourced ramp, DL has historically been very strong in that market and until a few years ago operated many BDL-Florida and other non-hub flying.
it is precisely because BDL has had a large variance in the size of the DL mainline operation, driven by DL's focus on low fare carrier competitive point to point traffic, that DL is more reluctant to commit full-time DL personnel in all locations. FLL has been a strong DL mainline station for decades and, even though it grew during DL Express and Song, is still has 20+ flights/day on mainline.
IIRC, BDL also had short-lived 757 service to Europe; having overwater ops increases the likelihood that a station will have in-house maintenance.

Those types of threads drive me loco. Can't stand the incorrect info...makes me feel pedantic, which I don't like... If you wanna know if a DL station is staffed above, below, or both, just ask.
it should drive you loco and does other people too... mostly because it is a patchwork of people who seem to think they know - and then there is a collective "let's draw" conclusions, often based on faulty data. Typical a.net.
And then you throw in a whole lot of bias and sometimes even published data gets either incorrectly cited or outright manipulated to prove a point which is actually counter to the real data.
Kev, at large international stations what arrangements does DL have? Pretty sure the only mainline overseas stations for AA is LHR (represented by UNITE) and NRT, I imagine NWA directly employed their personnel at AMS & NRT, no?

Josh
DL still has a large group of employees in NRT... less sure of AMS but I don't think there have been any substantive changes to any overseas locations in the negative direction.

OTOH, DL has hired its contractors as its own public-contact employees in some foreign cities including GIG and GRU were it knows it will be there long term and where the complexity of the int'l ops mean that the cost of providing the service via contractors is not cheaper than if those employees worked for DL directly. But of course laws are different in some parts of the world, including WRT benefits which is one of the key factors regarding whether the finances work as DL employees or only when outsourced.

Pan Am had a large group of its own employees and, while DL cut many when the hub was closed, there are still many former PA employees who still work for DL.
I believe DL's personnel at LHR are DL people; DL had a res office in London and it was closed in favor of AF handling all European calls, just as DL does in the US and Canada (the DL res lines are answered "welcome to DL/AF/KL reservations" similar to what NW did with KL.)

People have moved functions and some outsourced locations have become DL employees although usually above wing.

To further the point above BW outsourcing, DL partner Gol does not have any of its own ramp people so far as I know (or at least the primary workers are Swissport.
 
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AA has its own mechanics in many European stations, they have been doing some of US' ETOPS checks for years.
 
DL also has line maintenance at a number of cities in Europe and Asia and just added GRU in Latin America.

http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/service-locator

http://www.deltatechops.com/uploads/documents/DTO-Aircraft-Line-Services.pdf

http://www.deltatechops.com/
 
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DL has it's own AW people in many overseas stations. In others, there may be just a few (manager, supv., etc.), with the rest contracted out. No ramp outside of the US, unless you want to make a real stretch and count SJU...

NW had it's own people in NRT, including separate dispatch & meteorology depts. The ramp was handled by JASCO, and I assume they still do?

AMS was handled by KL, as were many Eurpoean cities (and in turn, NW employees handled KL in many places here in the US). LGW cargo, of all places, still had PMNW employees for quite awhile after that shift, though they too wound up changing...

Pretty sure YYZ is contracted out, nearly the entire operation is DCI only seasonal ATL mainline. You said before NW had mainline personnel and equipment at YYZ. Just curious what happened to the mainline rampers at smaller stations like FNT, RST, TVC, etc that were strong NW stations and now contracted? I assume they get to transfer to ATL/DTW/MSP/etc, but does DL refer them to the contractor and get rehired (at much lower pay/no benefits)?

Josh
 
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Just a reminder that there have ALWAYS been airline employees who have moved locations for their own benefit.

There are companies in all kinds of industries that transfer employees to other locations or offer them some type of severance.

And the option is also sometimes available to work in another area of the company in the same or closer location to one other than where one's current job is being offered.

However, the IAM required that NW offer AW and BW services at a location or it was contracted which meant that there was no "same location but different job" option available in some cities; in contract, 7.5 did result in many former rampers choosing to work AW.

Not even Japanese companies - long famous for life-long employment - make that promise today, let alone in a single location.
 
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Pretty sure YYZ is contracted out, nearly the entire operation is DCI only seasonal ATL mainline. You said before NW had mainline personnel and equipment at YYZ.

We did. They worked both AW & BW there. It was a lot of M/L equipment, and IIRC, we worked the ramp for TWA as well (not sure about upstairs). YYC, YEG, YOW, and YUL all had AW employees. YVR was closed, then reopened ...


Just curious what happened to the mainline rampers at smaller stations like FNT, RST, TVC, etc that were strong NW stations and now contracted? I assume they get to transfer to ATL/DTW/MSP/etc, but does DL refer them to the contractor and get rehired (at much lower pay/no benefits)?

FNT is alive and well, staffed with both AW & BW employees... RST had both AW & BW, and TVC was cross utilized, or what we called a "4 hour rule" station.

For affected employees, you had the option of:

Exercising your seniority on the system
Retiring (IIRC, your severance weeks counted as service credit towards your pension)
Taking the layoff (double severance)
You could apply for a job with the contractor, but honestly don't think very many did.