Thank you again, Kev, for your response.
Debate and healthy discussion is exactly what this board should be about; there is complete agreement between us about that point.
I am not saying that I set the agenda of this board. However, I am saying that when the discussion turns to topics that have been contentious and unbalanced topics regarding labor relations and DL in the past, I will not stand by without responding.
The simple fact is that guilt for the shutdown of the freighter operation has been laid at the feet of Delta by labor proponents and that is why I cut off the discussion from a pro-labor part of the DL contingent, even if that wasn’t the intention of what was written. That well has been poisoned and the pro-labor contingent has to prove to me those waters are safe to drink before that topic is floated again.
Please note that other than capacity-related questions, I have no problem with discussing what aircraft have been used on SFO-NRT or in discussing the NRT hub as a whole because those topics have not been attached to the pro-labor agenda.
The easiest way for you (meaning the pro-labor which has usually meant anti-DL group) to start removing things from the list of topics that evoke a response from me is to acknowledge that there is validity to my points, including that the freighter operation was financially no longer viable long before the merger due to the high operating costs of the 742s, the rapid increase in fuel prices which made the industry less profitable overall, and the generally weak global economy at the time of the merger which reduced cargo shipments for all carriers. The fact that other carriers who were using newer aircraft than NW also reduced their all-cargo operations indicates the problem wasn’t entirely because of the 742s but the older aircraft made NW particularly vulnerable.
It is that sort of balance that should be a part of this and other topics, and lacking it, this board becomes one heated discussion after another.
Instead of walking away from the forum, how about you hold yourself – including allow others to hold you accountable - to the same standards that you want to hold others to.
- Debate regarding principles and facts, not emotion. You are asking that on the UA IAM discussion, why not here?
- Make sure the charges you level against DL can be defended compared to what unions have achieved at other airlines.
- Acknowledge when you have over reached in your arguments and be willing to apologize, something you seem to expect others to do yet I never see any of the pro-labor supporters on the DL forum do.
This thread would still be going on as a trip thru yesteryear if you had been willing to accept that the freighter operation was no longer viable at the time of the merger, leaving DL to shut it down. Thus, it is grossly inaccurate to attempt to use it for any pro-labor point.
I enjoy your posts, Kev, and I want you and Q and 700 and everyone else to participate on this forum. But I can’t allow you to live by a standard that is different from what you hold others to. The standard you hold others to includes the same balanced perspective that I expect of the pro-labor DL contingent.
Let’s also be very clear that I do not at all see pro-labor as also being capable of being pro-company, a point you have made many times, Kev. Yet, there is virtually no one who would come to the conclusion that you are pro-DL based on what you have posted here. Thus, my challenge remains that if you are really pro-DL as well as pro-labor, then it shouldn’t be too hard for you to find positive things to say about DL. And if you are pro-labor and anti-DL, then you shouldn’t be surprised when you meet a lot of resistance both here and with your fellow employees, many of whom are loyal to the company.
Robbed,
You are right that is subjective to say that any employee group is happy. Instead, in the case of US, it would be more accurate to say that US mgmt has been able to ensure its operations are not affected by labor issues which may or may not be occurring below the surface.
As for SEA, yes it is a smaller city than LAX and SFO, but the goal is not to choose a city that is so large that there is room for a bunch of competitors but one that is big enough for DL to build a gateway to Asia that will serve many of the same cities that UA serves from SFO, the only other large west coast-Asia gateway among US carriers. Given that DL’s strategy is to use the smallest aircraft that can possibly be used and DL is ensuring that it will have feed either from the AS partnership or via flights under its own control (DL metal or Delta Connection), then the local market can be a lot smaller and still have a very viable gateway. Remember that ATL is a relatively small international market compared to other US cities but supports the second largest single carrier int’l operation in the US behind UA at EWR. Unlike NYC which is highly competitive, the vast majority of int’l flights and passengers from ATL and the SE, local or connecting, are on DL aircraft. That is the kind of model that DL wants to build in SEA to Asia.
Those who underestimate what DL can do on the west coast need only look at what they have done in NYC over the past five years in a far more competitive and far larger market.
The top up order for relatively large 333s would not have been placed and routes would not continue to be added if there were not high expectations for the SEA hub and considerable satisfaction with what the gateway/hub is doing today.
Josh,
Actually not all of the statements that you made about “equality” in the merger are totally true – to one way or the other. But it would only further the “us vs them” mindset to dive into those differences and try to argue for PMDL vs PMNW.
The simple reality is that DL pulled off the best merger with the best merger partner with each side bringing enormously valuable assets, people, and processes to the merger. There is no debate that the strengths that are DL’s today can be attributed to one side or the other, any more than a child can be said to be exclusively from one natural parent or the other.
No one, esp. me, has ever doubted what NW has brought to the table nor have I ever failed to acknowledge the rich history that NW has had. But NW’s history “as a single” starts to fade into the experiences that “the couple” creates on their own. Healthy couples who have been married for 10, 20, or more years don’t keep recounting their strengths and experiences as singles over what they have experienced together. That doesn’t mean one’s single days don’t exist or can’t be recounted but continuing to dwell on them at the expense of the joint experience is indicative of deep problems.
Notably, the vast majority of DL employees – and remember that the majority of DL employees were not originally hired by DL - don’t keep recounting the strengths of their original employer but instead focus on the here and now.
