DL requests authority to begin LAX-PVG service

[robbedagain]

every time we work an Allegiant Charter we always borrow DL MD-80 towbar and they never charge us for it  and  sometime last yr  DL borrowed our Airstair truck for some of the charter flights they had   again no charge 

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm sure DL's finance people will be less than happy to know that DL's STM is allowing DL's resources to be loaned out to work the ULCCs that DL is developing marketing programs to compete with.

Yep. At the airport curb, the competition pretty much stops.

I've watched ramp crews from another airline give AA their tractor to finish a pushout after AA's Hough died.

I've personally accepted customers from other airlines, DL included, on a phone call and a promise to settle up with FIMs and/or ticket coupons later.

There are probably thousands of other examples, but even then, some people would still never concede the point.

GUESS WHAT?

I HAVE TOO.

TO SETTLE UP LATER.

Airlines do what it takes to move the operation, including carrying parts for each other.

but they SETTLE UP LATER.

having someone who worked in an operational capacity does not mean in the least that the settlement process doesn't take place long after that aircraft is back in the air.

the settlement absolutely takes place.

If airlines expected their tools and materials to be passed around without accountability, they wouldn't ask for paperwork to be done - only to have it ignored and then have a chorus of people show up on internet chat forums bragging that they don't bother to follow established procedures.

I'll remind you of how willy nilly you have been with the company's money and resources when you (collectively) want to talk about what you expect the company to provide for you.

 

[Kev3188]

Yep. At the airport curb, the competition pretty much stops.I've watched ramp crews from another airline give AA their tractor to finish a pushout after AA's Hough died.I've personally accepted customers from other airlines, DL included, on a phone call and a promise to settle up with FIMs and/or ticket coupons later.There are probably thousands of other examples, but even then, some people would still never concede the point.

+1

...And sometimes that settling up later is a simple quid pro quo...

 

[WorldTraveler]

it very well may be.

but the days of weighing tickets and assuming 2 pounds from airline X is worth as 2 pounds from airline Y are gone.

The reason why your employer has you fill out forms when you borrow or loan equipment from other airlines is because they expect to pay for and be paid for the investments they and other airlines make.

It is not your prerogative as a frontline employee to decide that you will take the settlement process into your hands.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

+1
...And sometimes that settling up later is a simple quid pro quo...

We had an OAL asshat station Mgr like WT at one station who decided that all his stuff was out of bounds. Every time they had a tug break or towbar issue, they would have a cancelation. They actually had to fly in a towbar each time they had a charter because the guy was such a dickhead that no one on the airport would support him. Tug break down would end up with a GSE contract guy being called in because nobody would support him or his operation. Airport OPS even began to harass the AOA employees because of him. He lasted about 6 months.

 

[Kev3188]

it very well may be.

but the days of weighing tickets and assuming 2 pounds from airline X is worth as 2 pounds from airline Y are gone

Actually, MAGSA rates are the same for all participating carriers. But I'm sure you already knew that.

 

[WorldTraveler]

feel free to call it asshat when Kev gets a call from someone in ATL Tuesday morning asking him to explain why he has willfully flaunted company procedures on a public chat forum.

I'm an outsider you know so I would never know who to call.

As someone who took paycuts to turn the airline around and spent countless hours coming up with revenue, I am not about going to sit still while watching frontline employees tell me that the company's policies to protect company assets is out of bounds.

I want to thank you all for doing such a great job of documenting these irregularities.
 

Funny how that works, Q...

And in the end, his quest for a few MAGSA charges cost him (and the carrier) how much?

and the real question you should be asking is why he couldn't get HIS OWN equipment fixed and to stay that way.

notice that Q NEVER worked for DL.


NW doesn't exist any more.

 

[700UW]

feel free to call it asshat when Kev gets a call from someone in ATL Tuesday morning asking him to explain why he has willfully flaunted company procedures on a public chat forum.

I'm an outsider you know so I would never know who to call.

As someone who take paycuts to turn the airline around and spent countless hours coming up with revenue, I am not about going to sit still while watching frontline employees tell me that the company's policies to protect company assets is out of bounds.

I want to thank you all for doing such a great job of documenting these irregularities.

More idle threats from the snitch.
 
Shall we add it to the list of your other idle threats?
 
You really need to seek professional help, you have serious mental issues, maybe I should call the Mission that you suck $2,500 a month from and show them your posts, they would cut you out in a heartbeat.

 

[Kev3188]

We had an OAL asshat station Mgr like WT at one station who decided that all his stuff was out of bounds. Every time they had a tug break or towbar issue, they would have a cancelation. They actually had to fly in a towbar each time they had a charter because the guy was such a dickhead that no one on the airport would support him. Tug break down would end up with a GSE contract guy being called in because nobody would support him or his operation. Airport OPS even began to harass the AOA employees because of him. He lasted about 6 months.

Funny how that works, Q.

And in the end, his quest for a few bucks cost him (and his carrier) how much?

 

[WorldTraveler]

If you think I am making an idle threat, you are in for a very rude awakening.



a few people will wish there was a moderator who was as quick to remove their stupid remarks as they have been to remove other things.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Actually, MAGSA rates are the same for all participating carriers. But I'm sure you already knew that.

yes, I do know that.

but it isn't a one fee for a year, unlimited service kind of plan.

but I guess you knew that, right?

that is why your employer asks you to fill out paperwork that they damn well expect to be filled out.

you can explain to them why you think it is such a bad idea when they call Tuesday morning.



you better hope the moderators manage to delete this post as they edit this thread
 

Bingo.

I'm not interested in seeing possibly hundreds of our customer's plans tank (and the associated costs incurred to the airline) all because I insisted in charging $2.00 to borrow a towbar...

don't worry I saved a copy.

 

[Kev3188]

 Shall we add it to the list of your other idle threats?
 

If he wants to call, he'll call. So be it. Naturally, he'll have a list of specific examples. Or not.

My employer tasks us with being good stewards of company resources. I'm glad they trust me to make those real time decisions. I'm also confident I routinely make the right ones.

Cyber bullying is the domain of 14 yr. olds.

 

[WorldTraveler]

cyber stupidity is posting on a public website your disregard for company policy at the same time that you claim that labor organizers get fired for their union activities.

no sometimes people get fired for just plain being stupid. and for surrounding themselves with people even more stupid than themselves. and then defending them all.

once again, your employer does not task you with modifying company policy at whim. If they want a form filled out when you loan or borrow company equipment, that is what they expect you to do.

 

[topDawg]

no.

you and 4 of your dumbest and most dishonest friends on here just confirmed that the reason why other airlines don't pay for what they are loaned is because you/they didn't bother to report it appropriately.

Again, if there is no charge, then why do each of those companies have a procedure that has been repeatedly acknowledged is broken?

Oh I am dumb now? 
How many times have you done a maintenance trip for any airline?  
 

It is that ass hole (WT) that alienates the one person who might be able to get you out of jam. You know, the time you need that lift to save the flight from a maintenance cancellation at an out station. And since you are that guy, the airline with the equipment you need says, "no sale, not now, not to you, not ever, get your own" because you are that douchebag who burned the bridge.

Customer relations 101. Give and take.

exactly. One day you will need something.
 
but not only that it comes to do cents (maybe) on a dollar. I honestly believe if you sent in paper work because you needed to use a tow bar for literately 30 seconds, it would get to the GO, be looked at and tossed right into the trash. 
 

no.... you loan the equipment and account for it.

I know the concept is IMPOSSIBLE for you to understand, but it is not only possible but expected to do the right thing AND FOLLOW the rules.

the fact that this discussion has gone the way it is with following the rules being attacked by a bunch of union sympathizers shows EXACTLY what the union movement is made of.

DL people can see that with clarity thanks to this discussion.

now its the unions fault.....
I will give that. You are one heck of a bull **** artist. 
 

Bingo.

I'm not interested in seeing possibly hundreds of our customer's plans tank (and the associated costs incurred to the airline) all because I insisted in charging $2.00 to borrow a towbar...

exactly. This is the thing WT doesn't get. Get 2 bucks for a 2 bar for thousands in losses because of canceled or delayed flights.
That is how I know he is a Leo guy. They never good look at the big picture. Fantastic at spending a million bucks to save a dollar.  
 

again, no one is telling you to ask for congressional approval while the customers are held on the aircraft.

DO the right thing and document it afterward if necessary.

But you can't expect the company to provide YOU with the right equipment to do your job if you don't document that you have to continually borrow from your competitor.

likewise, if your competitor continually requires to borrow your equipment to run their operation - or to do something as major as an engine change - then they need to pay for the tools they use.

an engine change isn't a matter of just borrowing a screwdriver and a flashlight. If US didn't bring mechanics with the tools necessary to do the job and needed to borrow from DL, they should pay for it.

It is no different from what DL would expect of another airline when DL is the one that needs to borrow.

See this is how we know you don't know what you are talking about. 
 
Okay first and foremost If the US guys didn't have the proper hand tools they wouldn't borrow them from Delta because Delta doesn't have them. I have MY personally owned hand tools and Delta has zero control over that.
More importantly however we are not talking about the engine change kits. We are talking about needing a bag tug, golf cart, lift, air stairs.....mostly a single piece of  GSE to get the job done. 
and generally we are talking about needing that item for minutes not hours. 
 
So you are basically freaking out over a buck, two bucks worth of use. Delta isn't going to fly in a tug for an engine change. Why? because they know the field trip crew will get one.......and they will generally get one for free. 
 

 

and mgmt. DID NOT authorize loaning equipment without documentation.

you clearly missed that you and others said that is precisely the way such a loan was done without a charge.

the hypocrisy would come from you when I asked why the rampers at US did not help clean the FAs set up the galleys or why mechanics should not help the gate agents with the boarding process.

you'll sure play to the rule book then. I can guarantee it.

do you think its mechanics talking to mechanics? No when I need a tow bar or a tug or whatever I go right to the highest person in charge at the station (with-in reason). I have talked to everything from leads to station managers. 
And thankfully have yet to run into a king douche like yourself. (and guess what I would leave and go to another airline if I did) 
 

it doesn't take being a stock clerk to figure out that for profit companies do not invest in their assets in order to help out their competitors.

and they don't intend to help each other out for free and it ONLY happens when employees choose not to follow company procedures - which was validated happened by no less than FOUR people here.

the real world you LIVED in - you have been out of the airline industry for many, many years - doesn't exist for profit-motivated companies.

AA doesn't loan what it has invested in at JFK for free. DL doesn't expect to get it for free.

DL hasn't spent billions on tools and equipment at the TOC so a couple mechanics can loan tools at no charge.

dawg might actually get his big engine test cell if DL Tech Ops received the revenues it is supposed to receive.

you keep saying this so lets make it easy, can you copy the section of TOPPs this is in for us? You clearly know what the rules are so it shouldn't be a problem for you to quote them....
 

That article about Lee Moak is probably written by Lee Moak. What he did is return to the OLD relationship from before Ron Allen and Leo Mullen. That was restored by Jerry Grienstein and lee Moak . DL pilots have always enjoyed an unique relationship that is different from other airlines. In fact it was DL 's Woolman that asked DL pilots to join ALPA . That was when it was an association for safety and work rules. Hence that is why it is ALPA and not ALPU.

exactly. Man they just don't make them like they did with MR. Woolman anymore. 
 

WT
 
I spent three years on the AOG desk at US.  While 700 and I rarely see eye to eye on most things here, he is right and you are DEAD wrong.  Not everything is done on paper.  Sometimes it's just a phone call.  Why?  Because you build good relationships knowing you are sometimes going to be the one needing help.  Plenty of tools have been lent, fasteners given away, etc. because the cost of the paperwork and follow-up outweighs the good neighbor benefit.
 
By the way have you admitted you are wrong and said that DL had a maintenance base in Asia, and later claimed no one said it.  You can't keep track of your own BS.

exactly. 
 

no I did not admit I was wrong. you came to that conclusion all by yourself despite the fact that the very webpage which dawg provided used the term base to refer to one facility - ATL.

DL has a maintenance facility at MSP and at NRT.

as for your AOG experiences, I am not denying them. you also did not mention when they happened.

I am telling you that airlines do not invest in maintenance facilities, tooling, and equipment to loan it out to competitors at no charge.

when no less than 4 people have said on here that things were loaned out by NOT filling out the company required paperwork, then there is ample evidence that there are violations of company policy going on.

airlines DO cooperate on maintenance and parts. I have said that myself many times.

They don't do it for free and they don't expect someone else to bail them out for free.

and again it is highly noteworthy that the unionistas that are the most adamant about expecting the company to follow work rules and respecting division of responsibilities between work groups are the ones that advocate such a loosey goosey handling of company materials and equipment.

it is no surprise that the same people who clearly don't understand the economics of running a business expect the company to bend over backwards to meet their every demand and act surprised when the company says it makes no economic sense to do so.

Oh sweet Jesus. 
 
I told you when Delta refers to the ATL base at its home base its mean the HQ. MSP and ATL are maintenance bases. 
 
Am I the only having a hard time figuring out why this is so hard for him to grasp?

 

[topDawg]

feel free to call it asshat when Kev gets a call from someone in ATL Tuesday morning asking him to explain why he has willfully flaunted company procedures on a public chat forum.

I'm an outsider you know so I would never know who to call.

As someone who took paycuts to turn the airline around and spent countless hours coming up with revenue, I am not about going to sit still while watching frontline employees tell me that the company's policies to protect company assets is out of bounds.

I want to thank you all for doing such a great job of documenting these irregularities.
 

and the real question you should be asking is why he couldn't get HIS OWN equipment fixed and to stay that way.

notice that Q NEVER worked for DL.


NW doesn't exist any more.

Well kids, if anyone needs a reason to join a union.......here we are. 
 
btw WT I had some respect for you, but now.....wow you really are just a big pos.