DL to suspend SEA-HND Flights
- Thread starter 700UW
- Start date
- Status
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
uh, you seem to forget that ORD-LHR was not pursued so DL could start LAX-LHR which is operating.
of course it does.
DL has FOUGHT for the right to serve markets which other carriers and governments have attempted to close.
topDawg
Veteran
- Nov 23, 2010
- 2,957
- 2,353
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
yes, it is true.
DL first planned to operate ORD-LHR on a winter seasonal basis while giving it back to VS in the summer... just like with AF on CDG-ORD.
DL published the flight but then did not pursue it.
DL and VS traded a LAX-LHR flight for an ATL-LHR flight but then VS added back a LAX-LHR flight as part of its pull down of Asia flying.
ORD-LHR was a first step toward swapping markets that did not get off the ground but which has now evolved into a number of markets - and I think you know the list.
DL first planned to operate ORD-LHR on a winter seasonal basis while giving it back to VS in the summer... just like with AF on CDG-ORD.
DL published the flight but then did not pursue it.
DL and VS traded a LAX-LHR flight for an ATL-LHR flight but then VS added back a LAX-LHR flight as part of its pull down of Asia flying.
ORD-LHR was a first step toward swapping markets that did not get off the ground but which has now evolved into a number of markets - and I think you know the list.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
tell us what DL strength markets that AA or UA have started and in which they get average fares on parity with DL in?
DL has added a host of new markets from NYC into key AA and UA markets and is generating either average fare or total local market revenue on par with or exceeding what AA or UA gets in those markets.
btw, here is an article by Ted Reed about DL's LAX-PVG route application which notes that DL connects 200 passengers/day from its flights to Skyteam partner airlines at PVG. today. And with changes in connect times, DL expects to increase that number. that is enough passengers to fill a daily 332 at breakeven LF levels- exactly what DL operates on SEA-PVG.
that is precisely the advantage that having stronger Skyteam partners in China will provide DL that its competitors don't have, esp. as DL adds the new LAX-PVG service.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/13018701/1/why-delta-wants-to-be-5th-airline-to-fly-non-stop-from-lax-to-shanghai.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO
further, DL has pushed AA into a strategic lose-lose with its attempts to take over DL's SEA-HND route.
AA is clearly losing money on LAX-NRT and would love to be able to drop it if it wins LAX-HND. But DL, and not AA and not UA, will serve both routes with its own metal. UA will have LAX-HND on NH. AA/JL will only get both routes if AA wins the route and yet DOT data shows that JL continues to carry the vast majority of passengers under its own code in markets where AA operates on JL's metal under the JV.
DL's addition of LAX-PVG means that AA will either be forced to continue operating LAX-NRT and lose massive amounts of money doing so or drop LAX-NRT and then be at a strategic disadvantage to DL to Tokyo.
and as FWAAA notes there is no assurance that AA will win the route - and likely won't.
which puts AA in an even worse situation... still having to fly LAX-NRT and lose money PLUS now having a competitor on LAX-PVG which has far better connectivity in China.
Of course we will see the same thing play out when AA and DL both undoubtedly add LAX-MEX on their own metal as soon as the new treaty between the US and Mexico allows it.
DL has clearly shown once again, just as with the LGA slot deal, that it isn't really that hard to outsmart Parker.
DL has added a host of new markets from NYC into key AA and UA markets and is generating either average fare or total local market revenue on par with or exceeding what AA or UA gets in those markets.
btw, here is an article by Ted Reed about DL's LAX-PVG route application which notes that DL connects 200 passengers/day from its flights to Skyteam partner airlines at PVG. today. And with changes in connect times, DL expects to increase that number. that is enough passengers to fill a daily 332 at breakeven LF levels- exactly what DL operates on SEA-PVG.
that is precisely the advantage that having stronger Skyteam partners in China will provide DL that its competitors don't have, esp. as DL adds the new LAX-PVG service.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/13018701/1/why-delta-wants-to-be-5th-airline-to-fly-non-stop-from-lax-to-shanghai.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO
further, DL has pushed AA into a strategic lose-lose with its attempts to take over DL's SEA-HND route.
AA is clearly losing money on LAX-NRT and would love to be able to drop it if it wins LAX-HND. But DL, and not AA and not UA, will serve both routes with its own metal. UA will have LAX-HND on NH. AA/JL will only get both routes if AA wins the route and yet DOT data shows that JL continues to carry the vast majority of passengers under its own code in markets where AA operates on JL's metal under the JV.
DL's addition of LAX-PVG means that AA will either be forced to continue operating LAX-NRT and lose massive amounts of money doing so or drop LAX-NRT and then be at a strategic disadvantage to DL to Tokyo.
and as FWAAA notes there is no assurance that AA will win the route - and likely won't.
which puts AA in an even worse situation... still having to fly LAX-NRT and lose money PLUS now having a competitor on LAX-PVG which has far better connectivity in China.
Of course we will see the same thing play out when AA and DL both undoubtedly add LAX-MEX on their own metal as soon as the new treaty between the US and Mexico allows it.
DL has clearly shown once again, just as with the LGA slot deal, that it isn't really that hard to outsmart Parker.
WorldTraveler said:
Isn't it very strange that somebody that spends so much time proclaiming DL superiority, to at the same time be defending / justifying / exonerating / explaining every single aspect of DL (route, operations, fleet, labor relations, policy, etc).
I'm starting to think commavia's assessment of your obsession (fear! fear! fear!) is pretty accurate.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
but yet you can't tell me what DL markets that AA and UA have entered and rec'd the same level of the market that DL has obtained in AA/UA markets, can you?
no, commavia is just nursing an old grudge regarding the JL alliance decision and it absolutely frosts him to admit that AA won the battle but has lost the war in Japan and the Pacific.
there is no way that AA can win in Tokyo or the Pacific even if they succeed at getting the DOT to strip DL's SEA-HND route and award it to AA.
the strategic deck is stacked against AA... just as it was with the slot deal and DAL.
no, commavia is just nursing an old grudge regarding the JL alliance decision and it absolutely frosts him to admit that AA won the battle but has lost the war in Japan and the Pacific.
there is no way that AA can win in Tokyo or the Pacific even if they succeed at getting the DOT to strip DL's SEA-HND route and award it to AA.
the strategic deck is stacked against AA... just as it was with the slot deal and DAL.
Bwahahahaha the comedy (and delusion) never ends.
Once again, unfortunately for those peddling this pathetically laughable narrative, the history is there for all to see. Personally, I'd be embarrassed if I had so virulently and sanctimoniously argued that the NRT hub was strong and safe, Delta would dump capacity until JAL was bankrupt, etc. Nonetheless, if, in reviewing said history - comparing the predictions made about JAL to the reality of what actually happened - any reasonable, rational person concludes that I'm the one who is, or should be "nursing" a grudge, then so be it. But I don't think any reasonable, rational person - important caveat - would conclude that.
Some people have to keep repeating - either explicitly or through implication - that "the strategic deck is stacked against AA" because it helps them forget the reality that, in fact, AA has a stronger "strategic deck" than it's had arguably ever, and is rapidly gaining strength - both financially and strategically. AA has now largely closed just about every major domestic and international network gap it previously had relative to post-merger Delta except in the Rocky Mountain region (the least important domestic region), and despite all the endless diatribes, AA is likely doing it at margins as good or better than Delta at a network/enterprise level. And that fact - difficult for some to acknowledge let alone accept - is, of course, what this is really all about. Fear, fear, fear.
Once again, unfortunately for those peddling this pathetically laughable narrative, the history is there for all to see. Personally, I'd be embarrassed if I had so virulently and sanctimoniously argued that the NRT hub was strong and safe, Delta would dump capacity until JAL was bankrupt, etc. Nonetheless, if, in reviewing said history - comparing the predictions made about JAL to the reality of what actually happened - any reasonable, rational person concludes that I'm the one who is, or should be "nursing" a grudge, then so be it. But I don't think any reasonable, rational person - important caveat - would conclude that.
Some people have to keep repeating - either explicitly or through implication - that "the strategic deck is stacked against AA" because it helps them forget the reality that, in fact, AA has a stronger "strategic deck" than it's had arguably ever, and is rapidly gaining strength - both financially and strategically. AA has now largely closed just about every major domestic and international network gap it previously had relative to post-merger Delta except in the Rocky Mountain region (the least important domestic region), and despite all the endless diatribes, AA is likely doing it at margins as good or better than Delta at a network/enterprise level. And that fact - difficult for some to acknowledge let alone accept - is, of course, what this is really all about. Fear, fear, fear.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
AA has come nowhere close to closing its strategic gap.with DL and UA
Parker got the title of biggest title to Latin America which AA already had and added largest domestic of the big 3 but he still is at a RASM disadvantage
AA is still 3 of 3 on TATL and TPAC
And the distance between AA and DL and UA across the Pacific is larger than for DL and UA compared to AA to Latin America
And AA plus JL is still smaller than DL alone oe UA/NH to Japan and Asia
And AA continues to lose hundreds of millions per year flying the Pacific
Yes AA is strategically backed into a corner
Parker got the title of biggest title to Latin America which AA already had and added largest domestic of the big 3 but he still is at a RASM disadvantage
AA is still 3 of 3 on TATL and TPAC
And the distance between AA and DL and UA across the Pacific is larger than for DL and UA compared to AA to Latin America
And AA plus JL is still smaller than DL alone oe UA/NH to Japan and Asia
And AA continues to lose hundreds of millions per year flying the Pacific
Yes AA is strategically backed into a corner
Such delusion, such fear.
Thankfully, with each passing quarter, these hysterical arguments continue to collapse in on themselves like the logical and rhetorical dying stars that they are. And with the crumbling of each "Delta rules" meme comes more comedic gold as history is rewritten, red herrings thrown up to distract from said history, and blame and projection cast about to try and shift the focus to others. I, for one, find it exceptionally entertaining.
Thankfully, with each passing quarter, these hysterical arguments continue to collapse in on themselves like the logical and rhetorical dying stars that they are. And with the crumbling of each "Delta rules" meme comes more comedic gold as history is rewritten, red herrings thrown up to distract from said history, and blame and projection cast about to try and shift the focus to others. I, for one, find it exceptionally entertaining.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
there is no fear on my part.
What I predicted which is that AA/JL would not be able to make a hill of beans difference in AA's position on the Pacific.
AA still loses boatloads of money... is a distant 3 out of 3... has not been able to successfully compete with DL or UA on any directly competitive routes.
so no, there is no delusion. those are the competitive facts which you repeatedly refuse to acknowledge despite the fact that they are very obvious.
What I predicted which is that AA/JL would not be able to make a hill of beans difference in AA's position on the Pacific.
AA still loses boatloads of money... is a distant 3 out of 3... has not been able to successfully compete with DL or UA on any directly competitive routes.
so no, there is no delusion. those are the competitive facts which you repeatedly refuse to acknowledge despite the fact that they are very obvious.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
As a hub NRT is shrinking for DL.
That is news to no one
What you can't accept comm is that has not given up LOCAL market share either in Japan or across the Pacific, DL is the only US airline that has shown year round profitability to Asia and Japan, and JL is still here but even with AA is the smallest airline/JV across the Pacific ffom Japan
That is news to no one
What you can't accept comm is that has not given up LOCAL market share either in Japan or across the Pacific, DL is the only US airline that has shown year round profitability to Asia and Japan, and JL is still here but even with AA is the smallest airline/JV across the Pacific ffom Japan
- Status
Similar threads
