DL's profit does not disappoint.

WorldTraveler said:
I have consistently given you data but you don't want to accept it.

No company gets a 5 year pass on generating revenues on par with its peers because they are going thru a merger.

but you have finally said what I expected all along - that AA would reduce its fleet count - and whether you admit it or not - their headcount as they gain efficiencies from the merger.

I fully recognize and have acknowledged that AA will get to where DL is.

and whether you think AA has no hubs that they could downsize or rationalize, there is plenty of evidence otherwise.

and whether they do or not, AA is simply not generating the revenue growth on par with its peers. Wall Street doesn't care what AA has to cut in order to generate comparable revenues but they do have to get there if they want to be viewed as a viable best in class airline.

you also fail to accept that DL and UA and WN will all be making their own strategic and network changes that will make the bar higher and higher for AA. DL has been carrying the weight of an increasingly less profitable NRT hub for two years now - but DL has managed to be profitable on the Pacific and to grow its system revenue above the legacy carrier average in the process.

by the time AA has a combined res system and can start implementing their strategic plans related to merger efficiencies, DL will have removed 2/3 of the 744 fleet and removed 25% or more of its capacity from Japan, rerouting that capacity to nonstop Japan overflight routes.

DL's performance in NYC and ATL continues to increase. DL's west coast strategies continue to develop.

UA is fixing many of its problems which have left it at the bottom of the industry including rapidly replacing 50 seat jets with large RJs at a rate that is far faster than AA.

WN continues to reshuffle its network to maximize profits and at the same redeploy assets into key AA competitive markets.

so, yes, AA has time to implement its strategic plans but they are still overstaffed compared to their peers and they will have to face an industry which is itself moving forward while much of the competitive efforts are being focused far more at AA markets than those of any other carrier.
wow again, so much text and saying so very little. 
 
Again, If AA has a true overstaffed airline then you should know dept. by dept. breakdowns. You have given us zero data other than AA is not DL. That is it. 
 
 
and yes, you get a pass on the merger when you are reporting profits almost as large or larger than an airline (DL) who is years and years out of BK and its NW merger. Expecting them to be on Delta's page right now it one of the stupidest things I have ever heard in my life honestly. 
 
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No, I dn't know dept. by dept. comparisons between AA and DL or any other airline

and I don't have to.

You have proven repeatedly that you focus on the tiniest points of data to the exclusion of the big picture and this issue is no different. the big picture is obvious to anyone that is willing to see it.

Saying a company is overstaffed relative to a competitor doesn't require knowing the location of every concrete pillar that holds up a building.

All that is required to make an assessment of overstaffing is to see what one airline produces in revenue and seat miles relative to its peers.

DL and UA produce more revenue and seat miles per employee than AA does.

again, overstaffing is part of the consequence of a merger.

AA has to and will fix it in time.

Other airlines including DL which have better productivity can pay their employees better and deliver better financial results.
 
WorldTraveler said:
DL and UA produce more revenue and seat miles per employee than AA does.

again, overstaffing is part of the consequence of a merger.
 
Ignorance surfaces way too early in the morning today...
 
You can call it over-staffing if it makes you happy, but the point Dawg is making is quite relevant --- without the relevant workgroup comparisons, you can't make the comparison without a lot of noise, especially if UA and DL are outsourcing more functions.  When you outsource, it's a natural byproduct to have fewer employees thus a larger revenue per employee and seat miles per employee.  
 
That's why nobody with a shred of credibility focuses on metrics using employees as the denominator when doing a peer comparison.
 
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careful there, sonny.

ignorance is choosing to believe what you want.

AA's overstaffing is obvious without knowing their staffing at any dept. level.

they employee more people to generate less revenue than DL.

the maint. outsourcing percentages between AA/US and DL are nearly identical.

Street is the one that looks at efficiency and why some companies produce better net margins - exactly what AA noted in its presentation yesterday.

DL had higher net operating margins than AA and AA acknowledged.

DL has had and continues to have a higher market cap compared to AA.

you and dawg can spend your life on your knees looking for the minutiae fit your narrative but the big picture is obvious and no amount of data you can provide will counter that DL is a more efficient and higher profit airline and that is why Wall Street has rewarded DL above other carriers.
 
Yes - we know DL's strategy was to drive down operating margin by 47% while AA is increasing margin - so the so called overstaffing is working for AA and the under staffing by DL is working to damage their margin  - hope DL keeps it up
 
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check out AA's presentation at the Raymond James conference yesterday.

they used gross operating margin (pre-tax) and acknowledged in their slides that DL outperformed them.

you should call them up and tell them they don't know the industry for using a statistic that showed that DL did better.
 
Yes because they netted out special items - letting all of DL's write offs to be ignored
 
So if the trend continues with DL's cost rising faster that AA's on a QoverQ basis - AA will be smoking DL
 
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WorldTraveler said:
No, I dn't know dept. by dept. comparisons between AA and DL or any other airline
 
thank you. Then from what you say from here on out is completely meaningless. 
 
eolesen said:
 
Ignorance surfaces way too early in the morning today...
 
You can call it over-staffing if it makes you happy, but the point Dawg is making is quite relevant --- without the relevant workgroup comparisons, you can't make the comparison without a lot of noise, especially if UA and DL are outsourcing more functions.  When you outsource, it's a natural byproduct to have fewer employees thus a larger revenue per employee and seat miles per employee.  
 
That's why nobody with a shred of credibility focuses on metrics using employees as the denominator when doing a peer comparison.
thank you. Glad at least some people can get the point. 
 
WorldTraveler said:
the maint. outsourcing percentages between AA/US and DL are nearly identical.
 
Again, Doing airframe overhauls drives a higher employee count than doing engines. That is why US has such a high spend % (I think the majority of their engines are power by the hour) but doing airframe overhauls adds many more employees than doing a line of engine overhauls. That is why I believe US/AA will have more MX employees than Delta. 
 
and again, after the merger it is very possible that AA starts to do more US engines in house. I wouldn't be shocked at all to at least see the RB211s and CFM56-5s come in house because that is something that would drive cost down (economy of scale) more so than up and it shouldn't cause a large increase in staffing. 
 
I also wouldn't be shocked to see AA get into the V2500 game and/or Trent 700 game. 
 
what is meaningless is your endless dribble about your little corner of the world to the inability to see the big picture.

if one company can produce more revenue with less people, then either AA's people are more stupid or incapable OR they are overstaffed.

I don't for a minute believe the former.

there are a lot of things that are possible. for both AA and DL.

I can't measure the future. I can measure the present.

for now, DL and AA/US have nearly identical percentages of maintenance outsourcing. DL insources far more. AA still has 15K more employees to produce slightly less revenue than DL.

Unless AA buys out RR, they are no more likely to do work that TAESL does jointly.

Given that AA is rapidly retiring the 757s, there is little reason for them to bring in work they intend to not have in a few years.

let me know if it happens, though.
 
the RR 772ERs are powered by 892/895s

DL uprated theirs; so far as I know, AA has not.
 
WorldTraveler said:
Given that AA is rapidly retiring the 757s, there is little reason for them to bring in work they intend to not have in a few years.
AA does a huge amount of OAL RB211s as well as T800s. UA sends them to AA, and I believe they do them for both FedEx and UPS. That is a line that will be going on for a while. 
 
having said that, AA is planning on keeping some 757s around for ETOPs flying. 
 
WorldTraveler said:
.

Unless AA buys out RR, they are no more likely to do work that TAESL does jointly.
 
Okay, TAESL is AA in this case. AA isn't going to start a Rollers line at TUL, I mean AFW. Its AA employees with AA and Rollers support. I know you like to say they aren't the same because it shows that AA MRO is much smaller than TechOps.......but I'm not trying to show Delta wins a meaningless pissing contest. 
 
Having said that, after doing a little digging I show that AA already does the US RB211s at AFW. So their, you wrong again killer. 
 
WorldTraveler said:
if one company can produce more revenue with less people, then either AA's people are more stupid or incapable OR they are overstaffed.
 
Okay, so yes, their is some stupid here, but not at AA. 
 
Take a math class and an Econ class. Maybe a English class also. 
 
robbedagain said:
does the Trent 700 power DL 777s  and or any other aircraft type
777 are Trent 800s 
the Trent 700 is the 330 engine. US has them on the A332 (their 333s are pratt 4000 IIRC). HA is also a US T700 airline. 
 
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