DL's schedule from DAL/DFW post Wright
- Thread starter WorldTraveler
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- Dec 5, 2003
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OP
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OP
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you clearly are being rattled by my very accurate assessment of where strategically WN is today.
Again, make DAL work. I have wished WN all the best. I totally bet why WN fought to get the additional two gates.
DL had its strategic reasons why it fought for more access to DAL.
DAL is not the end all and be all for either DL or WN. Both will succeed.
Let go of the spats between us and face the reality of where both companies are, both good, bad, and indifferent.
Again, make DAL work. I have wished WN all the best. I totally bet why WN fought to get the additional two gates.
DL had its strategic reasons why it fought for more access to DAL.
DAL is not the end all and be all for either DL or WN. Both will succeed.
Let go of the spats between us and face the reality of where both companies are, both good, bad, and indifferent.
OP
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it appears the only "unschooled and untrained" are those that can't "grasp" and can't accept the state of the industry as it exists today.
DAL is a nice opportunity for WN, it gives WN access to a protected market which has been dominated by AA, and allows WN to do it from an airport that has enormous commercial value while avoiding directly challenging AA at its largest hub.
Still, WN's playbook is not the list of tricks which it could pull off without blinking an eye as it once did and more significantly, let's never forget that WN employees' greatest fear whether said or unsaid is that their paychecks can no longer be as inflated as they once were relative to their airline peers.
given that WN is flying many of the same markets its legacy peers have flown for years, those network peers are directly adding service in WN key markets, and WN's narrow service profile compared to the legacy carriers who have global networks and first class cabins, it isn't hard for anyone who actually has been schooled to realize that WN's sledding is not as smooth as it once was.
the unschooled are indeed those who parrot the platitudes of their company from decades ago.
DAL is a nice opportunity for WN, it gives WN access to a protected market which has been dominated by AA, and allows WN to do it from an airport that has enormous commercial value while avoiding directly challenging AA at its largest hub.
Still, WN's playbook is not the list of tricks which it could pull off without blinking an eye as it once did and more significantly, let's never forget that WN employees' greatest fear whether said or unsaid is that their paychecks can no longer be as inflated as they once were relative to their airline peers.
given that WN is flying many of the same markets its legacy peers have flown for years, those network peers are directly adding service in WN key markets, and WN's narrow service profile compared to the legacy carriers who have global networks and first class cabins, it isn't hard for anyone who actually has been schooled to realize that WN's sledding is not as smooth as it once was.
the unschooled are indeed those who parrot the platitudes of their company from decades ago.
Getting back to topic, how many gates is Delta operating out of LF post W/A? And what gates are they sharing? Anyone know?
OP
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happy weekend to you, swamt.
I don't know but apparently DL has some sort of commitment for gates for their 6 ATL flights or they would have pulled those flights as well.
As I noted before, the real issue with the DAL settlement was that it would have resulted in DL being forced to leave DAL. DAL does have requirements to accommodate other carriers as part of its federal airport agreements.
I am sure that DL is gaining access on that basis but did not gain the right to add further flights.
Given that UA has made no intention of expanding its flights, DL's flights can easily be worked at UA's gates.
since you and others said you expected that DL would not be forced to leave DAL, it shouldn't be a surprise that they will still be there - and you were right.
I don't know but apparently DL has some sort of commitment for gates for their 6 ATL flights or they would have pulled those flights as well.
As I noted before, the real issue with the DAL settlement was that it would have resulted in DL being forced to leave DAL. DAL does have requirements to accommodate other carriers as part of its federal airport agreements.
I am sure that DL is gaining access on that basis but did not gain the right to add further flights.
Given that UA has made no intention of expanding its flights, DL's flights can easily be worked at UA's gates.
since you and others said you expected that DL would not be forced to leave DAL, it shouldn't be a surprise that they will still be there - and you were right.
WT, It's not a surprise, never has been. Where do you get that the real settlement would have resulted in Delta being forced to leave DAL? Who has stated this? Why are you so hooked on that Delta would be forced to leave DAL after a settlement is done? Nobody has said Delta will be forced to leave LF, NOBODY. Why in the he!! are you so bent on still claiming this? If someone is, then post the postings stating as such. If not, then STFU about Delta leaving DAL.
I know I was right. And I don't mean to state that as a I told you so. But where in the freakin world are you getting that Delta is or would be forced to leave DAL (or LF)??? Where??
I know I was right. And I don't mean to state that as a I told you so. But where in the freakin world are you getting that Delta is or would be forced to leave DAL (or LF)??? Where??
OP
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Despite your profanity laced assertions to the contrary, the only thing that is obvious is that you have a very selective memory of what actually was said about DL and access to DAL.
Let me recount for you:
On the day the DOJ-AA/US merger agreement was announced the DOJ and both AA and US execs were very clear that no assets from the divestiture would go to either DL or UA, including the DAL gates.
DL subleased the gates from AA and there was absolutely no provision to protect DL’s right to continue to serve DAL as part of the merger divestiture agreement.
There were indeed several people on this forum who repeatedly made the point that DL subleased gates from AA and AA could have terminated the lease at any time (not sure it was ever proven that DL was on a month to month lease); they made the point that DL was SOL because of their sublease and had no recourse to regain access. There was absolutely no doubt that DL’s ability to serve DAL was dependent on the gates which were part of the divestiture agreement and for which there was no recourse for DL to remain at DAL.
DL itself repeatedly raised concern that it could be forced from DAL as a result of the divestiture process, including within hours of the very same day the DOJ/AA-US agreement was announced.
If you want to believe otherwise, find and post the legal documents that proved that DL would be given access regardless of the outcome of the 2 gates.
For you to say that there was no doubt that DL would be accommodated is quite simply the most revisionist and selective reading of what actually took place on the subject.
In fact, it was I who said that DL would gain access because DAL as a federally funded airport is required to accommodate new entrant carriers and, contrary to what many people on here argued, DL would be a new entrant carrier if they were forced to leave and then chose to reenter the airport because new entrant status as far as DOT airport access does not mean a carrier that has ever served an airport.
I also said that DL would use 717s which is exactly what they will be doing.
The only part where I was wrong was that DL would be restricted to ATL. Given that DL is increasing the number of flights it will offer compared to its current schedule and because DL is using mainline aircraft – which could be replaced with even larger M80s/90s or larger, those who argued that DL would be allowed to have the same number of flights they currently have is not even correct. IN fact, E posted a survey of the number of flights that I expected DL to have and I said it would likely be less than the 20 that they stated they would operate and likely around 10-12 (I do not remember his exact range of flights in each group). He acknowledged that DL would likely be at DAL but he in fact was one of the first who acknowledged with me that DL would be at DAL regardless of the disposition of the gates.
You clearly have an axe to grind and aren’t going to let it go but the more you post the more obvious it is that you cannot accept that I was right on the subject, erring only on the number of flights that DL would be allowed to operate, but even there I acknowledged it would be less than their full proposed schedule of 20+ flights.
Move on and let it go.
And get used to seeing DL 717s and perhaps other mainline aircraft at DAL.
Let me recount for you:
On the day the DOJ-AA/US merger agreement was announced the DOJ and both AA and US execs were very clear that no assets from the divestiture would go to either DL or UA, including the DAL gates.
DL subleased the gates from AA and there was absolutely no provision to protect DL’s right to continue to serve DAL as part of the merger divestiture agreement.
There were indeed several people on this forum who repeatedly made the point that DL subleased gates from AA and AA could have terminated the lease at any time (not sure it was ever proven that DL was on a month to month lease); they made the point that DL was SOL because of their sublease and had no recourse to regain access. There was absolutely no doubt that DL’s ability to serve DAL was dependent on the gates which were part of the divestiture agreement and for which there was no recourse for DL to remain at DAL.
DL itself repeatedly raised concern that it could be forced from DAL as a result of the divestiture process, including within hours of the very same day the DOJ/AA-US agreement was announced.
If you want to believe otherwise, find and post the legal documents that proved that DL would be given access regardless of the outcome of the 2 gates.
For you to say that there was no doubt that DL would be accommodated is quite simply the most revisionist and selective reading of what actually took place on the subject.
In fact, it was I who said that DL would gain access because DAL as a federally funded airport is required to accommodate new entrant carriers and, contrary to what many people on here argued, DL would be a new entrant carrier if they were forced to leave and then chose to reenter the airport because new entrant status as far as DOT airport access does not mean a carrier that has ever served an airport.
I also said that DL would use 717s which is exactly what they will be doing.
The only part where I was wrong was that DL would be restricted to ATL. Given that DL is increasing the number of flights it will offer compared to its current schedule and because DL is using mainline aircraft – which could be replaced with even larger M80s/90s or larger, those who argued that DL would be allowed to have the same number of flights they currently have is not even correct. IN fact, E posted a survey of the number of flights that I expected DL to have and I said it would likely be less than the 20 that they stated they would operate and likely around 10-12 (I do not remember his exact range of flights in each group). He acknowledged that DL would likely be at DAL but he in fact was one of the first who acknowledged with me that DL would be at DAL regardless of the disposition of the gates.
You clearly have an axe to grind and aren’t going to let it go but the more you post the more obvious it is that you cannot accept that I was right on the subject, erring only on the number of flights that DL would be allowed to operate, but even there I acknowledged it would be less than their full proposed schedule of 20+ flights.
Move on and let it go.
And get used to seeing DL 717s and perhaps other mainline aircraft at DAL.
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