Does Delta still have NWA scabs working?

[WorldTraveler]

thanks for your responses...
I don't doubt the things you mention are real... including the loss of sick time and OJI balances from NW and for the record, I wouldn't have done what DL did... but I don't run the show and I'm not sure I ever said they were right in doing what they did.
I have said that paid lunch and the time off policies at airlines are well above the norm for American business as a whole.

And as others have noted, PMDL employees have been impacted by DL's decision to cap vacation at 4 weeks except for PMDL employees who already held it. Again, I would have grandfathered people from NW who had it even if no one else new would have obtained it....

There are scores of compensation surveys done in industry as a whole and DL mirrors them. It is precisely because they know what people want - including DL employees - that DL mgmt. is able to develop compensation and benefits strategies and policies that maximize what the majority of people value the most, even while having to make difficult decisions like capping vacation time.

Non-union companies manage to keep their people relatively happy - and reduce the ability of unions to satisfy employee need precisely because they find a balance between competing compensation interests just as occurs in negotiations - but non-union companies move faster and more often they do not have a "punitive" or "risk" factor as part of the compensation package as is often imposed on unionized groups to ensure that labor's power does not grow to much and that there is an ability to pull back when necessary such as in the economic downturns that are common in the US airline industry.

 

[Kev3188]

- but non-union companies move faster and more often they do not have a "punitive" or "risk" factor as part of the compensation package as is often imposed on unionized groups to ensure that labor's power does not grow to much and that there is an ability to pull back when necessary such as in the economic downturns that are common in the US airline industry.

This would imply a planned strategy of "bad faith" negotiations on DL's part should representation come to pass.

... Are really; if they "punished" the workforce for choosing representation, it would lay waste to the facade they've spared no time-or expense- constructing...

 

[metopower]

Seriously. If the majority of the employees were to vote for union rep. That would signify that They wish all the benefits and trappings of union rep. Other words a wish to change the relationship with their employer. For Delta not to realize that change and negotiate just like other airlines is unreasonable .Bad faith ...seriously...Kev. I know you long for NWA days and I for one understand but I hope I'm retired before that happens.

 

[Kev3188]

Seriously. If the majority of the employees were to vote for union rep. That would signify that They wish all the benefits and trappings of union rep. Other words a wish to change the relationship with their employer. For Delta not to realize that change and negotiate just like other airlines is unreasonable .Bad faith ...seriously...Kev. I know you long for NWA days and I for one understand but I hope I'm retired before that happens.

That's rich coming from someone that *does* have a CBA.Why would you say that?

Please tell me you're not one of those guys that tells F/A's that "you get what we get."

What I "long for" is consistent application of policy and procedure, and an employer that recognizes that everyone here is a competent professional and deserves to be treated as such.

The current structure is neither efficient, nor is it professional.

It was WT that implied DL would engage in what I consider bad faith talks should ACS or IFS organize.

Do they do that with you guys? No? How 'bout the dispatchers?

The "relationship" should be a business one where labor and captial are on equal footing standing shoulder to shoulder.

Tell ya what; why don't you work to decertify DALPA, and we'll see how that goes...

 

[metopower]

If it was WT that said DL would negotiate in bad faith then my bad. My comment is only about the relationship would change that is all. What I say to other employees is...nothing .It is up to them what they wish.Your desires of a written contract I totally agree with and I do not understand why it is not so.You can have All the benefits of a union without a union per say .Why it is not so baffles me

 

[WorldTraveler]

except I said nothing about bad faith negotiations on DL's part.
I said that it is not uncommon for companies to consider the fact that they have a union on the property when they set compensation and that it is not uncommon for difficult negotiations to include a punitive factor and/or a factor that reflects the risk that it might take to get costs down in the event of a major economic event that requires a dramatic reduction in costs.

In fact, post 9/11, CO and DL both moved faster than other airlines in starting the process of making cuts and they made them on their non-contract employees first. But those companies also recovered more quickly and they began the process of restoring pay sooner.

We all want it in writing but guarantees have very often meant that the cuts may take longer to hit but will be far deeper and last longer when they do come...and ultimately unions have not been capable of stopping the process or making it any less painful than what occurred at non-union airlines.

As I have repeatedly noted, DL has one of the best relationships with its unionized pilots who are well compensated relative to their peers. Are their DL pilots who think ALPA Isn't tough enough? Absolutely. But DALPA has a history of working w/ the company to both groups benefits more so than occurs at other airlines.

There are other examples of punitive negotations w/ labor unions in the airline industry but it does not involve DALPA.

 

[Kev3188]

except I said nothing about bad faith negotiations on DL's part.

These are your words, are they not?

...but non-union companies move faster and more often they do not have a "punitive" or "risk" factor as part of the compensation package as is often imposed on unionized groups to ensure that labor's power does not grow to much and that there is an ability to pull back when necessary such as in the economic downturns that are common in the US airline industry.

Unless you are merely fear mongering, you have at a minimum tacitly implied that you feel any talks with DL would be regressive in the long run.

We all want it in writing but guarantees have very often meant that the cuts may take longer to hit but will be far deeper and last longer when they do come...and ultimately unions have not been capable of stopping the process or making it any less painful than what occurred at non-union airlines.

I'll take my chances with a guarantee over "at any time, for any reason" any day.

As I have repeatedly noted, DL has one of the best relationships with its unionized pilots who are well compensated relative to their peers.

No one's disputing that. The question is why do you think other groups would be treated any differently than DALPA (or PAFCA, for that matter)?

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm sorry but I don't see how you are making a connection between any words which I wrote - or even thought - and how DL would handle potential negotiations with another DL workgroup should they unionize.

There is nothing in what I said that says or implies that. tacitly or in any other way.

I'm sorry if you interpreted it that way.

You know that if you want a contract, you have to convince a majority of your peers to agree it is in their best interest.

I honestly have nothing against you or them if that is what is chosen... I have just repeatedly said and Meto has confirmed that you have it as good or better than your peers at unionized carriers - yet without the union.

For now the evidence of multiple votes to not unionize says that DL's non-union employees in the largest workgroups do not believe changing what they have is worth it.

 

[Topcat187]

Once a scab always a scab, and yes this is true even if you are not union anymore. Im not bad mouthing DL maint in general by any means, but if a guy crosses a picket line, I'd watch my back around him or her. Its unfortunate that DL had to inherit these people......

 

[WorldTraveler]

Its unfortunate that DL had to inherit .....

Thank you for acknowledging that the problem wasn't DL's but DL inherited it as part of the merger.

The choice would have been for DL to have gone down a list of employees and make the decision that they didn't want certain employees to become DL employees.

DL didn't do that. Every employee who had a NW ID badge became a DL employee unless they had previously submitted their resignation or request for retirement from NW.
If DL had chosen to pick employees, they could easily have expanded the criteria to a whole lot of other criteria, and notably ones which were far more significant to DL than to those in the labor movement.

It's unfortunate that DL inherited the "mess" resulting from the AMFA strike and NW's response to it; but few know that DL is providing DL RETIREE pass benefits to the former AMFA-represented employees on a network that is far larger and using richer pass benefits than NW ever offered.... and those employees have nothing next to their name that indicates the situation regarding their employment.

DL let it go but apparently others want to hypocritically establish and enforce their own set of rules to the exclusion of all else.

 

[lineguy43]

Thank you for acknowledging that the problem wasn't DL's but DL inherited it as part of the merger.

The choice would have been for DL to have gone down a list of employees and make the decision that they didn't want certain employees to become DL employees.

DL didn't do that. Every employee who had a NW ID badge became a DL employee unless they had previously submitted their resignation or request for retirement from NW.
If DL had chosen to pick employees, they could easily have expanded the criteria to a whole lot of other criteria, and notably ones which were far more significant to DL than to those in the labor movement.

It's unfortunate that DL inherited the "mess" resulting from the AMFA strike and NW's response to it; but few know that DL is providing DL RETIREE pass benefits to the former AMFA-represented employees on a network that is far larger and using richer pass benefits than NW ever offered.... and those employees have nothing next to their name that indicates the situation regarding their employment.

DL let it go but apparently others want to hypocritically establish and enforce their own set of rules to the exclusion of all else.

Oh I am well aware that SOME former AMFA members have the retirement flight bennies. Of course I got screwed out of it. Your age+years of service had to be 60 or greater. Me being 42 with 17 yrs of serivce in 2005 I missed it by one year. A lot of guys missed out on it like I did.

 

[WorldTraveler]

sorry to hear that.... I hope you have landed well on your feet.