F/a Sick Calls And No Contacts

[MarkMyWords]

My pal PitBull made the following comment in a previous thread:

"Management is on a "discipline spree". They are disciplining folks across the system up to termination very quickly. Again, the unions will grieve until the unions merge or go bankrupt.

UNION BUSTING AT ITS FINEST...THAT IS WHY IT IS A BILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS! Just ask Jerry G... THE MAN! "

I would like an opportunity to present a recent situation and ask for your feelings about the situation and what do you feel should happen to these employees.

I received this information from friends in PHL and then verified the information myself.

On the 12th of Sept, Flight 2 to FCO developed a mechanical and ended up returning to PHL. When the crew legality was checked it was determined that the crew would not be legal to re-depart PHL and a new crew would have to be called out. According to CATCREW, there were enough reserves on duty to recrew the flight. CATCREW was showing 10 available international reserve flight attendants in PHL.

Crew Scheduling began the process of re-crewing flight 2. Here are the results of the attempts to contact the 10 ON DUTY international reserve flight attendant. 4 accepted the trip and would be at the airport within the 90 minutes allowed, 3 were no contacts, 2 called off sick when assigned the trip, and 1 reported that he/she had been drinking. So out of 10 available reserves they were able to staff 4 out of the 8 minimum required positions. That is a 60% failure rate!

Now it gets better. Since it was a full A330 (260 customers) the decision was made to attempt to fill the other 4 flight attendant positions out of base rather then cancel the flight. This is now after midnight! CLT seemed to be the base with the best reserve coverage so they called 4 international reserve flight attendants out of CLT and chartered an air taxi to bring them to PHL to operate the flight. You got it! Charter an airplane to move the crew to PHL to avoid a cancellation.

30 minutes after the flight attendants were called in CLT and the Chater all set up, guess what? 2 of the CLT flight attendants now called off sick. Now they have to take an additional hour delay while attempting to call out 2 more f/a's!

PitBull - you say that management is on a discipline spree and given the above scenario I say good! Your people are bringing it upon themselves. Yes, it may be a few people that are making it tough on everyone else, but I say the problems is much more wide spread. Again, I have seen these types of abuses from people that I am aquainted with. Their feeling is, "well I havent' had a no contact in a while, so I just won't answer my phone or pager. What is the worst that will happen to me? A slap on the hand?" The same can be said for those that called in sick. Instead of calling scheduling earlier in the day and reporting sick, they wait until they are assigned a trip so that they will get the higher pay claim. And that is if they are even sick to begin with. I would wager that of the 4 sick calls you would be hard pressed to prove that even 1 of them was really sick. I would venture to guess that they didn't want to work a trip that late. As for the person that was drinking.....sorry, but you know you are on duty and anything can happen at anytime. If you are stupid enough to open a drink when you are on call, then you get what is coming to you.

Now I know you are going to come back with some response about how short we are or something like that, but it doesn't wash with me. If we have 10 available reserves and need to fill 8 positions, but can only fill 4, then there is a problem. It is time that the company make examples of this kind of behavior. And what will the unions stance on these employees be? To defend their actions and criticise the company for taking a tough stance against them? There are plenty of people that are out of a job that would love to come back and really work when called upon to do so.

PitBull - you can defend and make excuses for these people until you are blue in the face. Having to charter an airplane from one hub to another to cover a trip that should have been no problem covering is inexcuseable. I hope that each of these employees will have to report to the inflight office on Monday morning and explain their actions. If their work record shows that they are a continued burden on the system, then they should be gone.

I mean no disrespect to the entire f/a group, but I do think it is time to stop accepting excuses for employees that don't want to work. The time has come to cut some of the dead weight and bring back the employees that value and appreicate their jobs.

For those that disagree....by all means fire away......I can hear the guns being loaded already.

 

[USAirBoyA330]

Good gosh.....YIKES. There is no defense really to the above. The sad part is, I myself was sitting in PHL that night awaiting a trip! TONS of AVL DOMESTIC F/A's were but, we just sat there hoping to be called while this debacle was ongoing. Maybe the fence should come down around ITD? Or maybe they should have the ability to go into the domestic reserve book in rare and emergence cases?

 

[planejane]

Bravo --- It's about time someone told it as it really is. The abusers should be dealt with the sooner the better. There are others out there that WILL gladly take their jobs and EARN their pay. This continious cycle of doing as they please with no consquence but a call from their supervisor is outragous. This is not a slam against all f/a's, only those that see themselves in your message and that message most certainly applies to other employee groups.

 

[USAirBoyA330]

Markmywords:

Just another thought (not that it's an excuse) but F/A's are not required to take anything other than a FAR 121 carrier for crew movement. Believe it or not some have a fear of small planes. Those CLT F/A's had the right to refuse the deadhead if it was on a charter. But then again they should have had the F/A's in PHL.

 

[USAirBoyA330]

It's a bit confusing but here is the basic premise. ITD (International Transoceanic Domicile) has an invisible fence around it. F/A's bid on a yearly basis to hold either Domestic or ITD. Once you are on one or the other you can't cross over. You can only fly ITD trips (Rome, London, Paris.....) and the ITD F/A's can't fly domestic trips. The company and AFA put this fence up some years ago because of "service levels" on ITD. Training for ITD is VERY intensive and is (or was until Seigel) a 5 star deal. Now it's more or less the service we provided trans-con before 9/11. The company wanted only the ITD F/A's doing the service so it was consistent. United has something similar however, when they run out of International Reserves they can go right into the domestic book and assign.

 

[PITbull]

Markmywords,


I have to find out if the f/a who said they were drinking was not on an OFF day. That happened to a Pittsburgh f/a who came in from being out on the town with friends and was ASSIGNED a trip. He was on an OFF day.

Tell me this, why is every call so scrutinized? Could it be that management has cut to the bone with the f/a ranks and now every irregular operation or sick call becomes MAGNIFIED 10 fold? Please explain WHY scheduling needs to ASSIGN instead of JUST CALL OUT where there has always been plenty of coverage at the beginning of the month. WHY HAD THEY LEVELED FLIGHT ATTENDANTS ALREADY?


For those flight attendants who are not getting trips who are specifically in PHL, there are plenty of trips. My argument will stay and remain that U DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH FLIGHT ATTENDANTS. Period. Out of 2400 active f/as in PHL, why in hell, after needing only 10 f/as they had to go to CLT to cover. It was your scenerio above that stated that they called the last 10 they had and it was in INVERSE seniority and was an ASSIGNMENT. Why are the ranks so short? We did not have these problems a year ago.

And don't tell me MMW, that I am making excuses. I am too into the f/a business and way too smart for that simple retorhic, and I make it my business to know. I don't know what department you work, but I don't believe it is the f/a department so you couldn't possibly know the intricate, delicate work of scheduling flights. If U had more staffing they wouldn't have had to get a plane to fly that new crew over there. We didn't have these problems in this magnitude before AND I HAVE BEEN ON THIS PROPERTY LONGER THAN YOU.

For some folks, knowing that they will be "canned" in December, just are disqusted with this company and their mental health is not good. I am keeping track of the f/as that tell me they had to seek therapy and are on medication for anxeity dsorders and depression because of the stress in this job.Now you can sit there and ignore this and tell me I'm full of it, but I know. And if I hear on big mouth on here say we are "at will" employees, no one can afford to leave when their ill already. U needs to hire a Behavioral Industrial Psychologist to help the morale and spirit of the employees. This mangement refuses to recognize this becase they do not regard employees here or in any business. If you don't believe this MMW, you are one of those managers.

These are the same folks who use to absolutely love what they do...Management has killed the loyal dedication spirit of our group. YOu know it, I know it and the public knows it.

And I am not talking about the couple of f/as who say on these boards "oooh please let me be your "whipping" board, ooh I just love when you abuse and smack me all ove the place. WE do have some f/as that love to be abused and love others to be abused. Its a "sickness".


PS: I notice that you miiss me a times and you love "bringing me out" with fists clenched and tight to my chest..

Be careful how you answer this post, as I may recommend you for our BOARD seat.

 

[cavalier]

For those that disagree....by all means fire away......I can hear the guns being loaded already.

MMW

Anyone can plainly see this management has created a very hard handed to the pint of Gestapo style work environment. It has one goal, to instill pure fear in the employees so they will submit to whatever management wants without resistance. Your example makes it seem people owe their very lives to this company, people are supposed to drop to their knees and ask how high to jump any time management beckons. This after these so called leaders have demoralized every employee on the property to the point of mental illness and suicides. It’s clear from what side of the fence you speak. You come across as a guerrilla fighter for the company on these boards with your sympathies for the employee but it isn’t working. The way this management has acted and treated the employees shows the spirit of the U employee in the fact that U is even functioning at all let alone without the problems you addressed and tried to exploit on the company’s behalf.

 

[PSA1979]

I was on that FCO flight that was delayed due to a mechanical and spoke to one of the f/a's that was callled out. Scheduling called her at 10:15pm which was not that late. She made it to the airport on time. This problem with the ITD is not new. Every time there is a crew that goes illegal, crew scheduling has to call so many reserves to cover these positions because the international reserves are very senior and they don't take being on reserve very seriously. They are not in base when they are called, so therefore, they call off sick on assignment. This problem will only get worse in January, as the reserves senority only go down to 1989. I don't want to see any one lose their job, but we have got to start taking our jobs seriously and if we choose to be on reserve in the ITD, then we have got to be in base. And I mean choose, 1989 seniority in the domestic base of PHL can hold a block.

 

[USA320Pilot]

I agree with Cav's comments that this management team attempts to instill fear, uncertainty, & doubt (FUD) into all stakeholders, to exctract concessions. We know all to well how this has effected the employees and it's now being used against the mechanics for A320 overhaul outsourcing.

In addition, with EMB-170 FAA, Instructor, and pilot training beginning in PIT tomorrow, the recent CWA announcement regarding MAA could be a third-party comment to use FUD against AGAA, with a 6-hour negotiating session scheduled for Wednesday, September 17 in Harrisburg.

In regard to the F/A A330 sick issue, when is it o.k. to lie?

Respectfully,

Chip

 

[PITbull]

In regard to the F/A A330 sick issue, when is it o.k. to lie?

Respectfully,

Chip


Who said anythig about f/a's lying????? Do you know this for a fact or do you assume this because MMW implies it?

Answer yourself this....how do you deal with a management team that thinks its OK to lie?

 

[jimntx]

OK, Help an onery, opinionated customer understand the difference between Domestic and International F/A's? Other than aircraft type what qualifications are different?

I mean do the F/A's have to be more snotty and arrogant so the french passengers feel right at home?

Or must they maintain "Order" so the German customers are comfortable?

I'm crackin's wise here but really what's the difference?

There are actual FAA-mandated differences--such as, if the flight goes more than 62 (I think) nautical miles offshore, the flight attendants must be overwater qualified. If I'm not mistaken, this is technically not a problem for USAirways because all flight attendants whether domestic or international are qualified during initial training for all routes. The fence is a contractual issue.

At American Airlines, flight attendants are not overwater qualified until they have the seniority to bid and hold international; so, domestic flight attendants are not qualified to cover international flights. As far as I know, American is the last major to maintain this ridiculous difference--their argument is (and always has been) that it would be too expensive to overwater-qualify the domestic corps. However, the company can use international flight attendants to cover domestic flights if necessary.

 

[PITbull]

Bob,

You are "straight talking"....and that's a fact.

 

[PITbull]

Bob,

Your words now have been my words and premise on the issue of "shared sacrifices" since I came on these boards. You now have a "shared" epiphany with many here. The militant view and present stance of the unions ...is very appropriate for the occasion. There is no "middle ground " for now...that may come later....or not.

 

[ual06]

Perhaps a bit off topic. But this talk about over water qualified brings back some memories. I think today, everything is done in a class room. But; back in the mid seventy's, UAL required that initial over water certification for all Pilots and F/A's had to done in SFO. They deadheaded crew there that was not domiciled there. It was about three hours in a classroom. Then change into your swimsuit and go out to the end of a pier in the Bay where a "packaged" raft was waiting. The instructors normally chose the smallest F/A there to get it in the water, pull the inflation cord; and, pull it back to the pier. Then everyone would get in the raft. (Just try to stay on your feet in one of them things. About the only thing I can compare it to is trying to put your pants on during an earthquake.)

It would be let out about 30 ft. from the pier. Then the occupants would erect the overhead canopy and basically touch everything in the raft. Everyone would have to make a call on the emergency radio. (Modified to operate on a company frequency.)

Perhaps in comparison to today, that would have been called "Hands on reality training". But then it was done in a calm bay rather than the open sea.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

I would like an opportunity to present a recent situation and ask for your feelings about the situation and what do you feel should happen to these employees.

I received this information from friends in PHL and then verified the information myself.

On the 12th of Sept, Flight 2 to FCO developed a mechanical and ended up returning to PHL. When the crew legality was checked it was determined that the crew would not be legal to re-depart PHL and a new crew would have to be called out. According to CATCREW, there were enough reserves on duty to recrew the flight. CATCREW was showing 10 available international reserve flight attendants in PHL.


30 minutes after the flight attendants were called in CLT and the Chater all set up, guess what? 2 of the CLT flight attendants now called off sick. Now they have to take an additional hour delay while attempting to call out 2 more f/a's!.........
(SNIP)
for those that called in sick. Instead of calling scheduling earlier in the day and reporting sick, they wait until they are assigned a trip so that they will get the higher pay claim. And that is if they are even sick to begin with.

Thanks for the info, Mark.

I didn't know that F/A reserves got, in essence, a bonus for calling off sick after accepting an assignment. This PHL-FCO mess notwithstanding, how common is this pratice? In this case, the odds of two suddenly taking sick after being called seems a bit suspect.

Of the nearly 12 hour delay, how much was caused by the crewing issues?

Now I'll have to get over to flyertalk to see what the customers have to say.