Overspeed
Veteran
- Jun 27, 2011
- 3,245
- 1,120
Bob on outsourcing.
May 24, 2008
“So if AA said they were going to close all the overhaul bases, all the class II stations and layoff a third of what was left the mechanics still shoudnt strike? That would still leave me with a job, how about you?”
Owens is not concerned about outsourcing as long as he is working.
December 2, 2010
“…if outsourcing was such a great deal then why is AA bringing in all the work they can handle and trying to hire off the street?
Bob ignores the fact that the scope language is compelling AA to hire.
April 12, 2011
“My guess is: They will take a bunch of numbers and throw in a lot of fancy accounting terms and claim the only way they can meet the Unions demand to pay number 4 in the industry is to farm out or spin off Overhaul, as other carriers are realizing that farming out costs more in the long run. In 2009 the company was only threatening to eliminate 1200 jobs, in reality they couldnt, now they will probably threaten to eliminate 6000 jobs, my guess is the reality is the same. They have more work than we can handle, in the past when that happened they just sent the stuff out, like when they sent the 727s to Delta. My guuess if they had someplace to send these airplanes they would have already. If they cant find a home for a handful of 757s where would they send 600 airplanes?”
“My guess…?” Bob guessing now? Bob’s guess is that outsourcing AA overhaul is impossible. Bob in 2008 said he didn’t care about outsourcing but now he is an expert. Hmmmmm…
May 6, 2011
“The company would not realize savings from maint in BK, our peers earn less and our pension costs the company less in the here and now than the DC plans.”
The Company will not realize savings huh? He has said the other airlines get paid more but now he says they get paid less? Why did all the others outsource? Because it’s what everyone else is doing? Got the numbers on that?
May 18, 2011
“What percentage of WN's aircraft are sent overseas? I believe its a very limited amount and its spelled out in their contract. Just because Aeroman pays their mechanics between and $5/hr that doesnt mean thats what the carriers that send their planes there pay.”
Bob doesn’t understand the outsourcing process. True that wages aren’t everything when it comes to overhaul costs but if Aeroman is paying mechanics $5 then $50 as a charge out rate is reasonable. If AA pays $50 for wages without even including benefits, then they have to pay significantly more than $50 for charge out per hour. Bob doesn’t get it.
May 20, 2011
“I think there was also an agreement to bring more work in house, so they let SWA send work from Timco to El Salvador but they got more work in house. My bet is that SWA fluffed up the concessions value for Wall Street wheras AA undervalues the concessions and over values what they offer.”
“I think?” Maybe he should know since he is on a team negotiating for about 10,000 people. Southwest is not bringing more work in house. They raised wages of their 1,500 AMTs and continued to outsource and added the ability to send work overseas to an even lower wage area.
June 25, 2011
“AA has never even proposed outright eliminating in house OH, they havent even claimed its not cost effective.”
“So if the question is would the guys on the line be willing to agree to less than the table position on compensation to retain the 1/7th rule and eliminate labor loans on the bases I'd say No, but as long as the package also includes substantial pay raises and a restoration of what was taken away in 2003 and recognizes the aformentioned considerations, in other words our current table position, I'd say they would be willing to do whatever it takes up to and including a Strike.”
“The last time AA mechanics struck they were successful. That was 1969 when the compensation in real terms was double what it is today.”
Bob apparently wasn’t listening the past 7 years. AA has always said outsourcing was cheaper. That’s why the working together arrangement was created. To lower inhouse costs to bring them closer to outsourcing. That didn’t happen and now the AMR BOD decided to stop trying. Of course Bob said if AA paid us more the members would work faster. BK threw a wrench in that strategy Bob. Bob is willing to sell out the overhaul work now apparently since he said, “So if the question is would the guys on the line be willing to agree to less than the table position on compensation to retain the 1/7th rule and eliminate labor loans on the bases I'd say No.”
October 1, 2011
“What I am an advocate of is not panicing every time the company throws it out there. I feel we were wrong to accept concessions in 2003 and should have held our ground and that by doing what we did we doomed in house OH at all AAs competitors.”
Fact Check - So because we tried to keep overhaul in house we “doomed” overhaul at the other airlines? Outsourcing had already started at UA before BK under AMFA’s contract in 2003 under a new six-year deal they signed. AA started the outsourcing wave?
October 9, 2011
“I'm willing to settle for less than WN and UPS to keep OH in house, that is our table position, but there has to be a balance, some consideration for the realities of what that collective decision means and how it affects us, its obvoiusly a decision that benefits you to a greater degree than us, although we all do derive some benfit, and requires more sacrifice on our part, than yours.”
“The fact is that most of our competitors do not have in house OH to the degree AA does and you are willing to provide AA discounted labor in exchange for keeping OH in house, regardless of whether or not it warranted.”
Bob is being gracious now apparently. He will, “…settle for less than WN and UPS to keep OH in house…,” however only so much. So how many overhaul jobs is Bob willing to give up? How about his first? Also, Bob is now conceding that other airlines do outsource OH and he is not sure if it’s cheaper or not. I thought he knew?
October 22, 2011
“WN pays their mechanics a lot more yet they charge considerably less per ticket than AA. You will cite that they outsource their OH yet to date nobody has proven that outsourcing is cheaper.”
Bob, the Company lawyers will have economists to present financial data and industry facts to show that outsourcing is cheaper. They have to prove it to the judge, not you Bob.
January 10, 2012
“As far as outsourced maintenance being brought in at AA, they have been doing that forever as well. Class II stations would simply be relabeled Class III.”
“What this all boils down to is "outsourcing" does not have the same effect on us as it does on you. We dont care anymore, if they are going to do it then do it. The work would still be here.”
So now Bob admits to the very real possibility of work being outsourced but he is okay with that. “We don’t care anymore,” he says. Why, because Bob is on the line and he says, “…’outsourcing’ does not have the same effect on us (i.e. the line) as it does on you (i.e. the base).” So after four years Bob comes full circle, the way he looks at negotiations is how will Bob be affected? Remember what he said in May 2008 before he was a President? “So if AA said they were going to close all the overhaul bases, all the class II stations and layoff a third of what was left the mechanics still shoudnt strike? That would still leave me with a job, how about you?” (May 24, 2008)
May 24, 2008
“So if AA said they were going to close all the overhaul bases, all the class II stations and layoff a third of what was left the mechanics still shoudnt strike? That would still leave me with a job, how about you?”
Owens is not concerned about outsourcing as long as he is working.
December 2, 2010
“…if outsourcing was such a great deal then why is AA bringing in all the work they can handle and trying to hire off the street?
Bob ignores the fact that the scope language is compelling AA to hire.
April 12, 2011
“My guess is: They will take a bunch of numbers and throw in a lot of fancy accounting terms and claim the only way they can meet the Unions demand to pay number 4 in the industry is to farm out or spin off Overhaul, as other carriers are realizing that farming out costs more in the long run. In 2009 the company was only threatening to eliminate 1200 jobs, in reality they couldnt, now they will probably threaten to eliminate 6000 jobs, my guess is the reality is the same. They have more work than we can handle, in the past when that happened they just sent the stuff out, like when they sent the 727s to Delta. My guuess if they had someplace to send these airplanes they would have already. If they cant find a home for a handful of 757s where would they send 600 airplanes?”
“My guess…?” Bob guessing now? Bob’s guess is that outsourcing AA overhaul is impossible. Bob in 2008 said he didn’t care about outsourcing but now he is an expert. Hmmmmm…
May 6, 2011
“The company would not realize savings from maint in BK, our peers earn less and our pension costs the company less in the here and now than the DC plans.”
The Company will not realize savings huh? He has said the other airlines get paid more but now he says they get paid less? Why did all the others outsource? Because it’s what everyone else is doing? Got the numbers on that?
May 18, 2011
“What percentage of WN's aircraft are sent overseas? I believe its a very limited amount and its spelled out in their contract. Just because Aeroman pays their mechanics between and $5/hr that doesnt mean thats what the carriers that send their planes there pay.”
Bob doesn’t understand the outsourcing process. True that wages aren’t everything when it comes to overhaul costs but if Aeroman is paying mechanics $5 then $50 as a charge out rate is reasonable. If AA pays $50 for wages without even including benefits, then they have to pay significantly more than $50 for charge out per hour. Bob doesn’t get it.
May 20, 2011
“I think there was also an agreement to bring more work in house, so they let SWA send work from Timco to El Salvador but they got more work in house. My bet is that SWA fluffed up the concessions value for Wall Street wheras AA undervalues the concessions and over values what they offer.”
“I think?” Maybe he should know since he is on a team negotiating for about 10,000 people. Southwest is not bringing more work in house. They raised wages of their 1,500 AMTs and continued to outsource and added the ability to send work overseas to an even lower wage area.
June 25, 2011
“AA has never even proposed outright eliminating in house OH, they havent even claimed its not cost effective.”
“So if the question is would the guys on the line be willing to agree to less than the table position on compensation to retain the 1/7th rule and eliminate labor loans on the bases I'd say No, but as long as the package also includes substantial pay raises and a restoration of what was taken away in 2003 and recognizes the aformentioned considerations, in other words our current table position, I'd say they would be willing to do whatever it takes up to and including a Strike.”
“The last time AA mechanics struck they were successful. That was 1969 when the compensation in real terms was double what it is today.”
Bob apparently wasn’t listening the past 7 years. AA has always said outsourcing was cheaper. That’s why the working together arrangement was created. To lower inhouse costs to bring them closer to outsourcing. That didn’t happen and now the AMR BOD decided to stop trying. Of course Bob said if AA paid us more the members would work faster. BK threw a wrench in that strategy Bob. Bob is willing to sell out the overhaul work now apparently since he said, “So if the question is would the guys on the line be willing to agree to less than the table position on compensation to retain the 1/7th rule and eliminate labor loans on the bases I'd say No.”
October 1, 2011
“What I am an advocate of is not panicing every time the company throws it out there. I feel we were wrong to accept concessions in 2003 and should have held our ground and that by doing what we did we doomed in house OH at all AAs competitors.”
Fact Check - So because we tried to keep overhaul in house we “doomed” overhaul at the other airlines? Outsourcing had already started at UA before BK under AMFA’s contract in 2003 under a new six-year deal they signed. AA started the outsourcing wave?
October 9, 2011
“I'm willing to settle for less than WN and UPS to keep OH in house, that is our table position, but there has to be a balance, some consideration for the realities of what that collective decision means and how it affects us, its obvoiusly a decision that benefits you to a greater degree than us, although we all do derive some benfit, and requires more sacrifice on our part, than yours.”
“The fact is that most of our competitors do not have in house OH to the degree AA does and you are willing to provide AA discounted labor in exchange for keeping OH in house, regardless of whether or not it warranted.”
Bob is being gracious now apparently. He will, “…settle for less than WN and UPS to keep OH in house…,” however only so much. So how many overhaul jobs is Bob willing to give up? How about his first? Also, Bob is now conceding that other airlines do outsource OH and he is not sure if it’s cheaper or not. I thought he knew?
October 22, 2011
“WN pays their mechanics a lot more yet they charge considerably less per ticket than AA. You will cite that they outsource their OH yet to date nobody has proven that outsourcing is cheaper.”
Bob, the Company lawyers will have economists to present financial data and industry facts to show that outsourcing is cheaper. They have to prove it to the judge, not you Bob.
January 10, 2012
“As far as outsourced maintenance being brought in at AA, they have been doing that forever as well. Class II stations would simply be relabeled Class III.”
“What this all boils down to is "outsourcing" does not have the same effect on us as it does on you. We dont care anymore, if they are going to do it then do it. The work would still be here.”
So now Bob admits to the very real possibility of work being outsourced but he is okay with that. “We don’t care anymore,” he says. Why, because Bob is on the line and he says, “…’outsourcing’ does not have the same effect on us (i.e. the line) as it does on you (i.e. the base).” So after four years Bob comes full circle, the way he looks at negotiations is how will Bob be affected? Remember what he said in May 2008 before he was a President? “So if AA said they were going to close all the overhaul bases, all the class II stations and layoff a third of what was left the mechanics still shoudnt strike? That would still leave me with a job, how about you?” (May 24, 2008)
