Flying Cheap

[MERV]

Its a documentary on regional carriers. Its mainly about pilots training, pay and living conditions. On link theirs a small video clip about the show.

PROGRAM DESCRIPTION
One year after the deadly airline crash of Continental 3407 in Buffalo, NY, FRONTLINE investigates the accident and discovers a dramatically changed airline industry, where regional carriers now account for half of the nation's daily departures. The rise of the regionals and arrival of low-cost carriers have been a huge boon to consumers, and the industry insists that the skies remain safe. But many insiders are worried that now, 30 years after airline deregulation, the aviation system is being stretched beyond its capacity to deliver service that is both cheap and safe.

Frontline time and date: 2/9/10 @ 9 ET on PBS
Flying Cheap
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/

 

[john john]

Its a documentary on regional carriers. Its mainly about pilots training, pay and living conditions. On link theirs a small video clip about the show.


Frontline time and date: 2/9/10 @ 9 ET on PBS
Flying Cheap
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/

Former Continental CEO Gordon Bethune was a leader in the new formula. Outsourcing helped Continental remain more competitive and avoid another bankruptcy as they bid more routes out. “Having an independent allows an airline to bid that and have a competitive relationship and make sure they get their flying done at the lowest cost,â€￾ explains Bethune.

It’s call Whipsawing

 

[MERV]

Former Continental CEO Gordon Bethune was a leader in the new formula. Outsourcing helped Continental remain more competitive and avoid another bankruptcy as they bid more routes out. “Having an independent allows an airline to bid that and have a competitive relationship and make sure they get their flying done at the lowest cost,â€￾ explains Bethune.

It’s call Whipsawing

I agree outsourcing has been a great saver of the airline industry because its allow them to lower their cost. At same time it has lower our industry pay in general. No wonder they sold/ spun Expressjet (COEX). It allow them to lower their cost in regional service by putting express against the wall. AMR and DL will do same soon and also bring fresh revenue from the sell.

 

[john john]

Shine jet syndrome
All pilots’ have/had it and management known’s it

 

[MERV]

anyone saw the special. In special they said that FAA consider the airliners a customer. Thats crazy that a regulatory body considers someone customer. They suppose to be regulating them not treating them as a customer that defeats the purpose of that agencies.

 

[plane fixer]

I saw the show on Frontline "Flying Cheap" last night and I thought it was pretty good. I encourage everyone working in the commercial aviation field to check it out.

The show did make a pretty big omission regarding detailing the cause of the the Valuejet crash near Washington D.C.; but, the point the show was attempting to make was that there was a failure in the corporate culture at Valuejet that led to the incident.

The folks speaking for the main line carriers (and the head of the R.A.A) repeatedly emphasized that between the FAA and the regional carriers themselves there was no need nor space for further scrutiny, oversight or regulations for regional carriers and that in spite of the mainlines "colors" being on the tail of the plane there was no responsibility for the safety of operations of the the regional carriers (indirectly liability). So the regionals are responsible for their own operations and simultaneously expected to compete against each other to lower costs.

Until by FAA regulation the mainline carriers are required by law to be liable for the the operations of "their" regional carriers I can not see the mainline carriers voluntarily taking actions that will increase the cost of regional airline operations (labor costs, equipment costs, etc.) to increase the safety margin to that of the mainlines when their ticket prices are already under pressure from other low cost carriers (Southwest, Airtran, etc.).

Further it probably doesn't help that with the economy the way it is, the labor market for pilots is in airlines favor. The supply is greater than demand and that also forces entry level pilot wages down (in addition to low entry level experience requirements so the regionals do not have to pay for experience).

My opinion is that just like many other transportation industries, the airlines (all) will have to be re-regulated.

 

[john john]

I saw the show on Frontline "Flying Cheap" last night and I thought it was pretty good. I encourage everyone working in the commercial aviation field to check it out.

The show did make a pretty big omission regarding detailing the cause of the the Valuejet crash near Washington D.C.; but, the point the show was attempting to make was that there was a failure in the corporate culture at Valuejet that led to the incident.

Flight 592 disappeared from radar at 2:14 p.m. and crashed in Browns Farm Wildlife Management area in the Everglades, a few miles west of Miami,
just before takeoff, expired chemical oxygen generators were placed in the cargo compartment in five boxes marked COMAT (Company-owned material) by ValuJet's maintenance contractor, SabreTech, in contravention of FAA regulations forbidding the transport of hazardous materials in aircraft cargo holds.
Chemical oxygen generators, when activated, produce oxygen. As a byproduct of the exothermic chemical reaction, they also produce a great quantity of heat. These two together were sufficient not only to start an accidental fire, but also produce the extra oxygen needed to keep the fire burning, made much worse by the presence of combustible aircraft wheels in the hold.
SabreTech was the first American aviation company to be criminally prosecuted for its role in an American airline crash. The company, went out of business in 1999.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592

 

[john john]

Until by FAA regulation the mainline carriers are required by law to be liable for the the operations of "their" regional carriers I can not see the mainline carriers voluntarily taking actions that will increase the cost of regional airline operations (labor costs, equipment costs, etc.) to increase the safety margin to that of the mainlines when their ticket prices are already under pressure from other low cost carriers (Southwest, Airtran, etc.).

Further it probably doesn't help that with the economy the way it is, the labor market for pilots is in airlines favor. The supply is greater than demand and that also forces entry level pilot wages down (in addition to low entry level experience requirements so the regionals do not have to pay for experience).

My opinion is that just like many other transportation industries, the airlines (all) will have to be re-regulated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirTran_Airways#History

On July 10, 1997, ValuJet, Inc., the holding company for ValuJet Airlines, Inc., announced plans to acquire Airways Corporation, Inc., the holding company for AirTran Airways, Inc. of Orlando, Florida. The deal was scheduled to close on November 17, 1997.

 

[plane fixer]

Thank you john john for helping me get the facts right. I stand corrected.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Although Valuejet didn't have authority to carry hazardous cargo, oxygen generators could be carried by passenger airlines in the cargo compartment at the time if they were identified as such and protective caps were installed to prevent accidental activation. The maintenance contractor did neither, resulting in the belief that the canisters were depleted and therefore non-hazardous. As a result of the Valuejet crash the carriage of non-depleted oxygen generators aboard passenger flights was prohibited and fire suppression systems were installed to combat cargo compartment fires.

Jim