Forbes Article on Trainer

[700UW]

With all the money spent to get a mothballed refinery going and upgraded I doubt they have recouped all their money invested in trainer.

 

[robbedagain]

Do you see any one of my posts where I specifically said I condemned DL buying the Trainer?    NOPE YOU DONT    I did say theyre the only airline who brought an old refinery.    They've spent far more on it   and even Forbes (I believe it was) had an article on it.     I very much doubt Trainer is truly profitable.

 

[WorldTraveler]

spent far more on it than what?

Forbes didn't bother to do the research to show that DL's fuel prices went down more than the cost of the refinery.

was it ALL due to the refinery? no. DL had fuel hedges as well - and they were profitable.

but DL didn't break down the benefits from the refinery vs. hedging and they don't have to.

but the refinery has been profitable.

With all the money spent to get a mothballed refinery going and upgraded I doubt they have recouped all their money invested in trainer.

no, DL has not recouped their direct investment in Trainer.

but then again, neither has AA in Asia - and AA has been trying to be profitable in Asia far longer than DL has owned Trainer.

DL has saved more on fuel than what they spent on Trainer.

 

[700UW]

Two and a half years later, “this deal is even more idiotic now than it was then,” says Ed Hirs, an energy economist and lecturer at the University of Houston. Delta has sunk $420 million of capital into the refinery, which has generated roughly $100 million of losses. Is Delta at least getting cheaper jet fuel? Yes, it expects to pay about 50 cents a gallon less this year. But that’s only because oil prices have plunged, which has nothing to do with owning a refinery.
 
Besides, the real test is to compare Delta’s fuel costs to other big airlines. Before the acquisition Delta was sourcing fuel for 9 cents a gallon cheaper than its peers. Its edge today: still 9 cents. Meanwhile, much of its rationale for owning a refinery has disappeared: refiners’ margins have declined, while American crude no longer sells as such a wide discount to imported barrels.
 
On that score it worked. It did moderate jet fuel prices for Delta–but also for every other airline flying out of New York and Philly. For that altruistic move, maybe Delta ought to pass the hat: In 2012 Delta invested $180 million to modernize the plant–which generated a $63 million loss. In 2013 it added $52 million in fresh cap ex–with a $116 million loss. Late that year company president Ed Bastian said the refinery had experienced some “teething pains.”
 
 
 

 

[jcw]

I think what you are pointing out is on a cash flow basis it's a money pit

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

maybe, just maybe, I have a PAID scribe or use an ELECTRONIC scribe?

or maybe a TEAM of scribes?

 
spectator

 

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

I think what you are pointing out is on a cash flow basis it's a money pit

 
It's an investment!

 

[WorldTraveler]

so, you really don't have any evidence that DL made the wrong decision regarding the refinery but you are going to continue to beat a dead horse trying to act like you contribute something to the post?

suppose Kev bothered to memorize the number of posts you have generated since the first of the year?

 

[jcw]

Wow talk about someone who beats a dead horse from a cash flow perspective it's ckear its a
Been a money pit they have out more money in it the last three years than they have received back

Post each year how much money they put in and how much they got back each year and give us the IRR

It will be negative

Can you do that?

 

[WorldTraveler]

How from a cash flow perspective has the billions that AA has already spent or will spend just in this year on the US merger paid off? The merger should cost in total more than two billion dollars including new labor agreements.

Do you think that money will be paid off by the end of the year?

of course it won't be because AA/US didn't merge based on a 1 year or even 3 year return on investment.

and once again you refuse to acknowledge - or rather want to beat a dead horse that DL HAS REDUCED fuel costs by more than the cost of the refinery. some of it may be because of hedges and some because of the refinery but you and I certainly don't know how much comes from each source.

You in fact are not telling the truth AKA lying to say that DL hasn't recouped the cost of their investment in Trainer.

You really don't know anything about the economics of Trainer but are just flapping your gums to keep someone else from saying that something at DL actually is working as intended, right?

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

so, you really don't have any evidence that DL made the wrong decision regarding the refinery but you are going to continue to beat a dead horse trying to act like you contribute something to the post?

 
How about this;
 
DL paid $180 million to purchase the refinery in 2012 and the operation suffered a $63 million loss.  Then DL tossed in $52 million in 2014 to result in a $116 million loss.  Finally, in 2014 the refinery was marginally profitable, but only after DL sunk in another $40 million.
 
Spin away!
 

How from a cash flow perspective has the billions that AA has already spent or will spend just in this year on the US merger................
 

 
As usual, when World Fraudster cannot come up with facts, or quickly fabricate a lie, the logical step for him is to deflect.
 

 
 
But since you do bring up AA/US - are you still clutching your pearls?  Fear fear fear!
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

for someone that wants to argue about finances, you are woefully ignorant of the principles of them.

do you have any clue as to how long the investment in a facility like a refinery is carried on the books of a company?

No one said that DL would recoup its investment in the refinery directly in 2 years... any more than AA recovers its investment in aircraft in 2 years.

your ignorance is breathtaking - second only to your boldness to show your ignorance.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

you really don't have any evidence that DL made the wrong decision regarding the refinery

 

You really don't know anything about the economics of Trainer but are just flapping your gums

 

for someone that wants to argue about finances, you are woefully ignorant of the principles of them.

 
Sometimes the truth hurts
 
DL paid $180 million to purchase the refinery in 2012 and the operation suffered a $63 million loss.  Then DL tossed in $52 million in 2014 to result in a $116 million loss.  Finally, in 2014 the refinery was marginally profitable, but only after DL sunk in another $40 million.
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

you are losing and can't stand it. You are so far out of your league, it is embarrassing that you keep posting.

but the adrenaline rush is strong for you and adrenaline is stronger than gray matter, at least for you.

if AA is supposed to recover the investment it is making in its fleet, you are in serious trouble.

AA will never recover in one year the billions per year it spends on new aircraft.

give it up.... you look more and more like the fool that you are.

I hope Dougie is proud of you

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

The person that fabricated this fairy tale is the biggest fool on here:
 
DL's strategy with VS has already generated far more revenue for DL than any other airline partnership has for any other airline in the same period of time.
 
But keep posting, you must be a gluten for punishment.