Forbes Article on Trainer

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

time out.

DL has a 38% of the LOCAL market. Load factor for AA and DL includes connecting traffic of which AA carries far more than DL with AA's hub in MIA. DL carries its LGA to Latin America traffic largely over ATL while AA does it over MIA.

DL has never operated LGA-MIA or any other route with one type of aircraft for any length of time.

ATL-DAL and the Shuttle are two of the only high profile routes I can think of right now which have the same aircraft today and into the future.

I'm not sure what your point is with the exercise but you your quick search was inaccurate based on flawed assumptions and data mismatches between the schedules and the reporting period for the LOCAL passengers carried.

 
Like I said, my numbers are an estimate. 
Again, I challenge you provide the data.
I told you my sources and listed the numbers, and admitted that they're estimates. 
 
So if you're an industry big shot with so much knowledge, please prove me wrong, post the data and you'll get an apology.
 
I'm not calling you a flat out liar, but I'm saying that your claims are somewhat suspect and many times you wiggle out and never provide the numbers to back up your claims.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Well, if one wants to have an intelligent conversation, it would help to bring some data/facts to the table.  If DLs JV with VS already brings in $200 million, great.  Now provide the data to show that other airline JVs, for the same period of time brought in less than $200 million.  This is the claim you made, but now you can't back it up.
 
Good day.

 
great day to you too.

I am simply saying that I am not doing the digging on this one.

If you want to believe I am not accurate, that is ok with me.

It doesn't change that DL is generating $200M in incremental revenue at LHR. You can let me know how much revenue DL actually does generate at LHR but $200M more on top of what they had is a pretty good jump.

Even at the peak of the NRT hub, DL said it generated $4 billion in revenue per year which was 10% of all of DL's system revenues and the largest int'l station on DL's network.

LHR is not near as large of a station for DL as NRT was at its peak.

$200M is a pretty nice pop in revenue.

38 ain't 40. In my book, that's called exaggeration. Others call it lying. But not the first time you've over-stated the LGA-MIA local share obtained by DL, so nothing out of the ordinary for you. As discussed over a year ago, when you last exaggerated the DL share of LGA-MIA, DL managed to get some of the local share by offering low fares that were equivalent to jetBlue's rock-bottom NYC-FLL prices. Good to see that DL has been able to raise its fares somewhat since then.
 

I'm defending nothing. I'm just pointing out your exaggerations/lies. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you want a gold star for DL's achievement, then ask your mommy.

unless you can provide evidence that DL lowered the fares from NYC-MIA and not AA - and I don't think you can, I will call you a liar since that is the way you operate.
 
Feel free to provide evidence to the contrary, but I would strongly bet that AA lowered the fares from LGA-MIA to help fill the increased number of seats and to give DL reason to focus on FLL instead of MIA.

no, I won't call you a liar.

that's childish.

I will have a discussion with you and tell you if you are factually wrong where facts are known or your conclusions make no sense - as they do regarding lowering fares - but I won't call you a liar.

you do what you have to do, though

Like I said, my numbers are an estimate. 
Again, I challenge you provide the data.
I told you my sources and listed the numbers, and admitted that they're estimates. 
 
So if you're an industry big shot with so much knowledge, please prove me wrong, post the data and you'll get an apology.
 
I'm not calling you a flat out liar, but I'm saying that your claims are somewhat suspect and many times you wiggle out and never provide the numbers to back up your claims.

if I was FWAAA (which thank God and all my lucky stars I am not) I would fly into a rage and call you a liar.

Or I would point out, as I have, that your data is not correct and your assumptions are flawed.

DL has 38.1% of the LOCAL LGA/JFK to MIA market.

FWAAA has yet to acknowledge that even 25% is something that AA should be proud of given that DL has served LGA-MIA for only a couple years.

 

[FWAAA]

Compulsive exaggerators never change their stripes.

 

[robbedagain]

FWAA   good luck getting him to put his TRUE data or links to it out here    he loves to make $h!t up  and when called out on it  he completely flips a lid and changes tunes     Just Gotta Luv This Stuff

 

[WorldTraveler]

Compulsive exaggerators never change their stripes.

you truly aren't capable of engaging in a discussion without calling names, can you?

for someone who has a better grasp of the economics of the industry, you are inflicted with the same inability to admit that someone else is right.

DL has 38.1% of the local MIA-LGA/JFK market. I pulled that estimate out of my memory. I don't memorize those kind of facts but I wasn't far off.

You also quoted old data as if you could gain the upper hand using stale data. Did you not realize that 3rd quarter 2014 data is available and I wouldn't find it?

and you still haven't answered if you find it acceptable that DL obtained even 25% market share or that DL and not AA reduced fares in MIA relative to FLL.

how long will we wait for you and your chorus of pant clutchers to stop their berating me long enough to answer the factual based questions?

either DL or AA lowered fares first. If you are right, you should be able to answer the question.

If you pulled that out of the air, then admit it was a stab in the air that someone else was smart enough to see for what it is.

 

[mistified]

 

 

Oh that was funny!
This one also applies:
 
As he was talking I found myself agreeing with him and told him so. 
He spent the next ten minutes telling me I was wrong.

 

[WorldTraveler]

meanwhile, no one has yet to argue what AA did right to allow DL to grow to 38.1% of the LGA/JFK-MIA local market - or to explain who lowered fares in the market to levels below FLL.

oh, and crude oil closed up $3/bbl or 6%. DL stock is down the least of the entire industry which is highly susceptible to higher fuel prices. Apparently the market agrees with me that DL's bad hedges will be reduced by higher crude prices, DL's hedges will help to insulate some of the increases, while everyone will pay the same higher price for unhedged fuel.

 

[Kev3188]

This thread needs more pictures of DL's new tanker...

 

[FWAAA]

This thread needs more pictures of DL's new tanker...

Here you go:

 
DL reportedly paying upwards of $80k per day to charter this ship, which is about double the lease rate of a new 777.  
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/25/jones-act-tanker-delta-idUSL2N0PZ21R20140725
 
http://www.tradewindsnews.com/tankers/341884/Delta-in-Jones-Act-debut

 

[WorldTraveler]

"Monroe is paying upward of $80,000 per day for the Seabulk Arctic, a comparatively cheap rate that results from its age, higher fuel consumption and the longer duration of the contract. In contrast. Exxon Mobile Corp agreed to a record $120,000 a day charter in May."

Delta carries $80K in revenue on one 767 departure from JFK to LAX, with cargo of course.

The tanker carries almost 2 days worth of crude based on Trainer's refining capacity.

thanks for returning the conversation somewhat to the subject

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

This thread needs more pictures of DL's new tanker...

We really need one of our resident photoshop experts to let their creative juices flow with that tanker pic.

 

[WorldTraveler]

maybe by converting into an aircraft carrier with a portion of the Delta Air Force flying in formation above it as well as on the flight deck?

 

[Kev3188]

 

Here you go:

 
DL reportedly paying upwards of $80k per day to charter this ship, which is about double the lease rate of a new 777.  
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/25/jones-act-tanker-delta-idUSL2N0PZ21R20140725
 
http://www.tradewindsnews.com/tankers/341884/Delta-in-Jones-Act-debut

Fantastic! Thank you.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

A day later you still cannot backup your claim fabrication:
 

DL's strategy with VS has already generated far more revenue for DL than any other airline partnership has for any other airline in the same period of time

 
You have no proof what-so-ever. 
Show us the data so that you may re-claim a fraction of your credibility and get an apology.
BTW:  by data I mean the numbers showing the $ from the DL-VS JV compared to others over the same period of time
I triple dog dare you to!

 
 

time out.

DL has a 38% of the LOCAL market. Load factor for AA and DL includes connecting traffic of which AA carries far more than DL with AA's hub in MIA. DL carries its LGA to Latin America traffic largely over ATL while AA does it over MIA.

DL has never operated LGA-MIA or any other route with one type of aircraft for any length of time.

ATL-DAL and the Shuttle are two of the only high profile routes I can think of right now which have the same aircraft today and into the future.

I'm not sure what your point is with the exercise but you your quick search was inaccurate based on flawed assumptions and data mismatches between the schedules and the reporting period for the LOCAL passengers carried.

 
Again, I said my numbers were a quick estimate.
And I told you where I got my information from.
 
Show us your data.
 
The point of the exercise is to show you are not a liar.
 

I am simply saying that I am not doing the digging on this one.

If you want to believe I am not accurate, that is ok with me.

It doesn't change that DL is generating $200M in incremental revenue at LHR. You can let me know how much revenue DL actually does generate at LHR but $200M more on top of what they had is a pretty good jump.

Even at the peak of the NRT hub, DL said it generated $4 billion in revenue per year which was 10% of all of DL's system revenues and the largest int'l station on DL's network.

LHR is not near as large of a station for DL as NRT was at its peak.

$200M is a pretty nice pop in revenue.

 
Because you can't.
You know you made up a statement, claimed it as fact, and now can't prove it.
 
 

DL has 38.1% of the local MIA-LGA/JFK market. I pulled that estimate out of my memory.

 
What other facts do you just randomly pull estimates out of your memory and then try to sell it to everybody as Gospel so that they along with you (and spectator) can worship DL? 
You do grasp that idolatry is a sin don't you?
Is that how you get all or your data?
 
You've just demonstrated that you are a LIAR and a fool!

 

[WorldTraveler]

so, it is ok for me to give you a pass - which I did - because you pulled an estimate out of your head, I corrected it, and we moved on but you want to continue to hammer away on the fact that my estimate pulled from memory was for 40% instead of the actual 38.1?

you call people liars and fools but want to be excused for back of the envelope math that is just plain wrong, no matter how long you worked at it.

and DL absolutely did say that it expects to see $200 million in increased revenues at LHR because of the VS partnership. before you call me a liar, I would VERY STRONGLY suggest that you review DL's earnings call transcript.

it ain't my estimate.

the part that is my estimate is the revenue value of DL's operation at NRT vs. LHR.

perhaps you can tell us how many seats DL has at each of the two cities - for LHR now vs. NRT a couple years ago at its peak.

Don't forget to factor in that NRT average fares are far higher than at LHR.

do the math with more than just a napkin and some estimates you pull out of your head before you say that someone else is making up stuff.