Ground Handling News?

[Dignity]

Wrong.

As far as representation goes, there is nothing currently stopping NW M/L from taking over the handling of OH.

On top of that, there is nothing stopping M/L from taking over the DL ramp work currently outsourced.

the comment referred to a definitive answer that will not happen while there are two separate employee groups at this time. when there is resolution, then that answer will be finalized, its just that simple.

So what are you saying? That they're holding this work over our heads as some sort of "carrot and stick" when it comes to a vote?

not at all, that is merely your own interpretation and certainly was not implied.

There's nothing to "resolve." Again, if they had no intention of giving NW M/L this work then they should not have sent out a letter to all of us.

that is where you are more than likely mistaken, you cannot receive a definitive answer on any issue until both groups are integrated or at least how it will be determined going forward after a combined SOC by resolving these issues.



they more than likely sent out a letter explaining their true intent to keep current Mainline stations, Mainline..had they not sent out a letter stating they will retain Mainline stations going forward.. then I would find that to be a concern..but that is not the case..

the definitive answer will come at the conclusion of all outstanding issues..

 

[Kev3188]

Dignity--

There seems to be a disconnect here...

So you have a clear picture, here's the parameters that were laid out by Knotek:

Example 1: NW outsourced (above & below), with DL M/L above.

In this case, DL CSA's take over both operations, with the DL vendor doing the ramp

(example cities, COS, SNA, BDL, etc.)

Example 2: NW M/L above & below, and DL M/L upstairs.

In this case, NW takes over below wing ops for both carriers.

(example cities, PDX, PHL, SEA, etc.)

Example 3: NW M/L, with DL ops handled by a DCI carrier.

In this case, NW M/L will take over both above & below ops for both carriers

(example cities, MSN, FNT, GRR, MDW)

Example 4: Both cities outsourced.

In this case, nothing changes.



There *nothing* stopping any of these initiatives from occuring. Not SOC, not integration of workforces, and certainly not anything in any IAM CBA.

To add insult to injury, in places where the work "moves" to DL, these changes have already occured or will soon; CVG & SLC are now being handled by DL M/L above & below, BDL is now DL above wing/DGS below, and SNA switches over soon.

This memo came out in mid October, plenty of time to get things in order; wtf is the hold up?!

 

[Dignity]

There *nothing* stopping any of these initiatives from occuring. Not SOC, not integration of workforces, and certainly not anything in any IAM CBA.

To add insult to injury, in places where the work "moves" to DL, these changes have already occured or will soon; CVG & SLC are now being handled by DL M/L above & below, BDL is now DL above wing/DGS below, and SNA switches over soon.

This memo came out in mid October, plenty of time to get things in order; wtf is the hold up?!

to me, they sent a letter and explained what they are to do with Mainline Stations handled either by NW or DL...I do not think that was sent out for piece of mind, or an idea of what they might do but rather exactly what they plan to do when the airline is operating under a combined SOC...one SOC.

there would be some issues if they reneged on that letter at this time.

first of all they would be viewed as not credible, or simply cannot be trusted, that is exactly what my first thought would be.. a very poor labor move.

it would go against everything they promised for the communities and employees, if they only turned around and cut service and eliminated Mainline positions and closed Mainline stations 'after' they sent out a letter explaining their intent not to do so..(why send out a letter in the first place, just dont send one out at all.. if they have real intent not to honor it in the first place)

it would also show they dont know what they are doing, to state the merger was to protect everyones best interest at both companies by combining only to turn around and change it all...that would not be instilling very much confidence in their decision making or future planning.

if they screw people over now, they will begin the process of tarnishing a good name...not smart...(totally unnecessary especially since they sent out a letter stating they would not and would only prove union representation is highly needed)

it would show the merger was actually unnecessary, or at least only necessary for NW bankroll.

saving a buck is not always worth it, replacing experienced and dedicated workers in this environment at this time would be a huge mistake not only for destroying a reputation but service going forward..(NW mainline stations operate at the top of the chart.. in nearly every category regarding performance, that is not an opinion)

I feel the letter is exactly how it will play out.. the issue now is to resolve and conclude and then move forward..they have explained what they intend to do, now they are probably just waiting for the employee to decide what they want to do (but that does not really change their intent of keeping Mainline stations, Mainline)

 

[Kev3188]

there would be some issues if they reneged on that letter at this time.

first of all they would be viewed as not credible, or simply cannot be trusted, that is exactly what my first thought would be.. a very poor labor move.

it would go against everything they promised for the communities and employees, if they only turned around and cut service and eliminated Mainline positions and closed Mainline stations 'after' they sent out a letter explaining their intent not to do so..(why send out a letter in the first place, just dont send one out at all.. if they have real intent not to honor it in the first place)

it would also show they dont know what they are doing, to state the merger was to protect everyones best interest at both companies by combining only to turn around and change it all...that would not be instilling very much confidence in their decision making or future planning.

if they screw people over now, they will begin the process of tarnishing a good name...not smart...(totally unnecessary especially since they sent out a letter stating they would not and would only prove union representation is highly needed)

it would show the merger was actually unnecessary, or at least only necessary for NW bankroll.

saving a buck is not always worth it, replacing experienced and dedicated workers in this environment at this time would be a huge mistake not only for destroying a reputation but service going forward..(NW mainline stations operate at the top of the chart.. in nearly every category regarding performance, that is not an opinion)

They are already reneging on it, IMO. Or if you want to look at it differently, failing to follow through on what they have promised the workers, communities, etc.

Either way erodes what little credibility this mgmt. team has.

For example, why did they renew Aramark's contract in MEM?

Why will ATS continue to work DL flights in PDX, including the NRT & AMS trips?

Why will EWR "only work the bagroom" for their AMS trip?

Why are several cities facing potential layoffs of M/L employees while the outsourced workers continue right along?

 

[Dignity]

They are already reneging on it, IMO. Or if you want to look at it differently, failing to follow through on what they have promised the workers, communities, etc.

minor modification to policies and procedures I expect, the full outright reneging regarding keeping all current Mainline stations would be an issue..or such as..(outsourcing all/portions of International Flying to foreign nationals) these would be disastrous moves for labor relations.

Either way erodes what little credibility this mgmt. team has.

to be quite honest I have some thoughts of genuine reservation and concerns...but it is what I think.. not actually how it really may be..

if they want to focus on doing the right thing, starting over and instilling trust, now is the time..there is an opportunity present at the "new" airline going forward..

For example, why did they renew Aramark's contract in MEM?

Why will ATS continue to work DL flights in PDX, including the NRT & AMS trips?

Why will EWR "only work the bagroom" for their AMS trip?

are these transitional moves at this time with both companies..while both operate under their own SOC or is this to be in place after a single SOC?

Why are several cities facing potential layoffs of M/L employees while the outsourced workers continue right along?

Every worker in this country is subject to layoffs, no matter what industry..that is why it is imperative to focus on performance and keeping those levels high at all times..

they have already said per that letter mainline will still be mainline..will they have to furlough mainline employees in any department? I hope not, but I dont know?

the idea would be to retain as many high level performing employees as possible, the current Mainline employees are showing that is the way to go, they need to focus on that.. especially when customer service/performance matters in this ever changing industry.

they have to keep their best people(assets) from both sides, it would be their best move at this point....that also includes retaining top regional performers as well..

actual performance is more than likely the indicator of what stays where is what I am thinking... or what they are looking at while making these decisions..

 

[Kev3188]

minor modification to policies and procedures I expect, the full outright reneging regarding keeping all current Mainline stations would be an issue..or such as..(outsourcing all/portions of International Flying to foreign nationals) these would be disastrous moves for labor relations.

It already is proving disastrous. The 1-2 punch of moving contractually protected work to 3rd party providers, and not bringing outsourced work back in is along the same lines as moving your flying to FN's.

if they want to focus on doing the right thing, starting over and instilling trust, now is the time..there is an opportunity present at the "new" airline going forward..

Damn right "now is the time." The fact that they're failing to do so speaks volumes... all the more so when you see that it is almost unilaterally affecting NW workers.

are these transitional moves at this time with both companies..while both operate under their own SOC or is this to be in place after a single SOC?

The SOC has nothing to do with it. Again, there is nothing stopping M/L workers from taking over this work right now.

Every worker in this country is subject to layoffs, no matter what industry..that is why it is imperative to focus on performance and keeping those levels high at all times..

No argument there, but when they have a chance to mitigate those furloughs by bringing their own operation back in house and fail to do so, what do you think that says?

the idea would be to retain as many high level performing employees as possible, the current Mainline employees are showing that is the way to go, they need to focus on that.. especially when customer service/performance matters in this ever changing industry.

Sure they need to focus on it... which is why it's maddening (and hypocritical) that they aren't.

 

[Dignity]

It already is proving disastrous. The 1-2 punch of moving contractually protected work to 3rd party providers, and not bringing outsourced work back in is along the same lines as moving your flying to FN's.

there is an actual need for regional services, just as there is an actual need for interport Flight Attendants(for cultural reasons..just as an aside NW Pacific FAs are not outsourced we work together as a team many are long time employees) the key here is balance and not agreeing to outsourcing US jobs.

the moment outsourcing is agreed, regarding the elimination of US positions it is the beginning of the end and difficult to restore.

what I do not agree with is shifting work simply for the reason to save a buck, that always proves a mistake one way or another..

Damn right "now is the time." The fact that they're failing to do so speaks volumes... all the more so when you see that it is almost unilaterally affecting NW workers.

the merger is going to stay on track and continue to move forward regardless if the IAM or AFA choose to participate at this time. personally prefer to be part of the process but that is not up to me..it may appear one way when in fact its simply..staying on track.

The SOC has nothing to do with it. Again, there is nothing stopping M/L workers from taking over this work right now.

the representational issues probably do play a part here, to what extent I am not exactly sure?
right now there are two seperate employee groups, they very well may have complete intent to keep these stations mainline, but they may have to wait until the employees make up their minds, so it is finally determined where they stand and then they can focus on implementing the contents on that letter..sort of a formality..they need to hear from the employee next.. its a two way street here.

No argument there, but when they have a chance to mitigate those furloughs by bringing their own operation back in house and fail to do so, what do you think that says?

it says to me they are missing out on a perfect opportunity to create trust.

Sure they need to focus on it... which is why it's maddening (and hypocritical) that they aren't.

I would tend to feel fairly confident..they are well aware of their top performers(and want to keep them)

 

[Kev3188]

there is an actual need for regional services, just as there is an actual need for interport Flight Attendants(for cultural reasons..just as an aside NW Pacific FAs are not outsourced we work together as a team many are long time employees) the key here is balance and not agreeing to outsourcing US jobs.

Maybe, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about here. Once again, I am not talking about cities where NW & DL both have M/L. The work in question is either being currently performed by a 3rd party or soon will be.

the moment outsourcing is agreed, regarding the elimination of US positions it is the beginning of the end and difficult to restore.

Guess what? We're right in the middle of Act I....

what I do not agree with is shifting work simply for the reason to save a buck, that always proves a mistake one way or another..

Great! But why in the next breath do you try and rationalize it?

the merger is going to stay on track and continue to move forward regardless if the IAM or AFA choose to participate at this time. personally prefer to be part of the process but that is not up to me..it may appear one way when in fact its simply..staying on track.

Again, irrelevant. The IAM has no qualms about absorbing extra work (that should go with out saying).

the representational issues probably do play a part here, to what extent I am not exactly sure?
right now there are two seperate employee groups, they very well may have complete intent to keep these stations mainline, but they may have to wait until the employees make up their minds, so it is finally determined where they stand and then they can focus on implementing the contents on that letter..sort of a formality..they need to hear from the employee next.. its a two way street here.

WTF?

Last time: In the cities I'm talking about, there are NO representational issues that have to be worked out before these changes can occur. These are not cities where NW & DL both have M/L ramp.

What would the employees need to make up their minds about?

it says to me they are missing out on a perfect opportunity to create trust.

Yep.

they are well aware of their top performers(and want to keep them)

Their actions (or lack of) say otherwise.

 

[Dignity]

Maybe, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about here. Once again, I am not talking about cities where NW & DL both have M/L. The work in question is either being currently performed by a 3rd party or soon will be.

all of it?

Guess what? We're right in the middle of Act I....

it started when little airplanes
with jet engines started to show up...

Great! But why in the next breath do you try and rationalize it?

sometimes you just have to try and make sense of it..

Again, irrelevant. The IAM has no qualms about absorbing extra work (that should go with out saying).

maybe irrelevant, maybe not, sometimes its just personal perceptions but I will agree work should be handled by mainline whenever possible..

WTF?

Last time: In the cities I'm talking about, there are NO representational issues that have to be worked out before these changes can occur. These are not cities where NW & DL both have M/L ramp.

What would the employees need to make up their minds about?

this goes back to wanting a definitive answer..... what I mean by this is simply...they cannot give a definite answer(even if their intent is to keep mainline stations at their current staffing, until all the issues surrounding a particular work group has been resolved)..

employees are an absolute part of the process, we all need to make up our minds what the majority wishes for representation..that way they can address contract issues retaining mainline stations, or follow through with their intent to keep mainline as it currently is today, but that cannot happen until the employee decides, then the final definitive answer is available.

Yep.

yep

Their actions (or lack of) say otherwise.

that actually is a personal opinion.

 

[night-ice]

I thought there were going to be more stations announced towards the end of last week?

 

[28yrsnojob]

RHS will be formed by 3 quarter 2009 and take over all comair operations
this is a ground handle company ,non rev days are over. may be a couple of passes a yr.
pay and bennies probably a cut.

 

[28yrsnojob]

This will be a big joke . another way to cut labor costs!

 

[night-ice]

RHS will be formed by 3 quarter 2009 and take over all comair operations
this is a ground handle company ,non rev days are over. may be a couple of passes a yr.
pay and bennies probably a cut.

Wow! Who would want to work at an airline for no non-rev benefits??? Certainly not I.
Have they explained how the RHS non-rev benefits are going to work? Will they be like DGS currently is?
For the stations that 9E won that is not wholly-owned nor part of the RHS umbrella, wonder how that will work for non-rev?

 

[Kev3188]

RHS will be formed by 3 quarter 2009 and take over all comair operations
this is a ground handle company ,non rev days are over. may be a couple of passes a yr.
pay and bennies probably a cut.

It's happening a lot sooner than 3Q.

In my city, the OH employees have already ordered their uniforms. On June 1st, the take over the ~25 cities that ZW was handling for NWA.

As for seniority, whatever date you have now is what you'll have going forward. Pay rates are *supposed* to stay the same (according to a memo on DLnet), but we all know how that goes. I have no idea about flight benefits... My guess would be something similar to whatever OH has now.

Wow! Who would want to work at an airline for no non-rev benefits??? Certainly not I.
Have they explained how the RHS non-rev benefits are going to work? Will they be like DGS currently is?
For the stations that 9E won that is not wholly-owned nor part of the RHS umbrella, wonder how that will work for non-rev?

I haven't heard...Probably the same as it does for 9E now?

 

[Travelagent]

RHS will be formed by 3 quarter 2009 and take over all comair operations
this is a ground handle company ,non rev days are over. may be a couple of passes a yr.
pay and bennies probably a cut.

According to memos released to current OH and XJ employees:

4 stations began integation at OH and XJ stations in Feb with the remainder to be finished "by the end of the 3rd quarter"

All current OH and XJ employees pay will be grandfathered in to RHS

Employees hired "as soon as April 1" may be started at the new RHS pay- exact date and pay rate TBA.

RHS was formed "to service above and below wing handling at small to midsize airports and to provide 3rd party handling to other airlines"

DGS "will typically provide ramp service to mainline cities"

One of the most freq asked questions was about non rev bennies- they know its important, so I can't see them drastically reducing/eliminating them....I mean really, it doesnt really cost the airline that much to give a seat to someone that would otherwise be empty as a trade off for a lower wage.

pay and bennies probably a cut?

As far as cutting "other bennies"...what else is there to cut??

Don't get me wrong, I am not in any way defending this new company, but what is done is done. Lets see what they offer the employees before we trash them. At least they grandfathered in the current employees pay instead of saying, if you want to stay the new rate will be X.