Happy Bonus Day!

dfw gen

Veteran
Dec 1, 2011
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Tomorrow level 5 and above get their bonuses for a job well done! be sure to congratulate them.
 
meanwhile association member's its been 1 year and 3 months since everyone BUT association members got a 4% raise 
 
(that means we missed two paydays thats not counting LAST YEARS bonus that slipped by unnoticed) and 9 months since the fix was in with no vote.
 
 
and association members are getting nothing,zilch,zip and a little more of nada. and the promise of baskets of plenty for everyone!
 
 
laughing at us all the way to the bank.
 
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Well, the AA M&R have had several opportunities to rid themselves of the twu.
The ideology of signing both an AMFA card and IBT card is pretty stupid as it was known that the twu requested (I have little doubt that the twu funded part of it) the ibt to run a drive as a spoiler for AMFA.
Now the M&R at AA is 'over-screwed' as your twu defenders left your a$$ blowing in the wind as they created this 'association' and no-one had a say in it whatsoever.
 
You Guys N'Gals decided that the twu was your best course. How did that work out?
 
Good Luck!
 
B) xUT
 
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dfw gen said:
Tomorrow level 5 and above get their bonuses for a job well done! be sure to congratulate them.
Tell me -- did you apologize to those L5's during all the years they got zero bonus and no raises while you were getting your guaranteed step increases?

Yeah, didn't think so.

Just remember that you guys choose to negotiate your compensation as all-fixed, while they're more or less given no choice about having some of their compensation be at-risk and dependent on the company's performance.

If you want bonuses, then join management. Just don't complain when you hit those years with zero raises while the union guys are getting the guaranteed base pay increases they were able to negotiate.
 
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I am glad AA management is getting bonuses or whatever you want to call it.
I am tired of the Union members always complaining, no-one forced you to stay at AA we had a change to get rid of TWU. Many of the TWU members are great at wining but when it is time to put up they run. I am hoping another card signing can start up, but i have a feeling that the beaten wife syndrome is still in place with most of TWU members.
 
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eolesen said:
Tell me -- did you apologize to those L5's during all the years they got zero bonus and no raises while you were getting your guaranteed step increases?

Yeah, didn't think so.

Just remember that you guys choose to negotiate your compensation as all-fixed, while they're more or less given no choice about having some of their compensation be at-risk and dependent on the company's performance.

If you want bonuses, then join management. Just don't complain when you hit those years with zero raises while the union guys are getting the guaranteed base pay increases they were able to negotiate.
That's not the point E. It's business as usual for everyone else. But it appears that talk is cheap when it comes to our negotiations. Despite what is said in town hall meetings where the company is ready to work overtime in getting a contract done, they are in no rush to do so. The negotiators could not even make an on-the-spot decision about a bull***t item like uniforms. The union countered with something, and they were told that they would have to bring it back the following session.
 
And please spare us the "YOUR GUARANTEED STEP INCREASES" defense. If management wants guaranteed step increases, maybe they should not have gone into management in the first place.
 
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Perhaps it is business as usual for everyone else because the TWU continues to put amateurs up against professionals? There's a process for bringing up items, and there's no shortage of evidence where the TWU dragged their feet (e.g. was it six years or seven in negotiating the last contract prior to the integration?).

I don't know anyone in management who doesn't like variable comp when it's structured appropriately. Averaged out across all the years when variable comp doesn't pay out, you probably wind up with less than what the union guys get, but you also aren't handcuffed to all that goes on when you're handcuffed to a dues collection agency vs. someone actually interested in looking out for the membership.
 
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The issue is it always looks like the grass is always greener - there are many trade offs - for example job security vs at will etc - it's like when folks try to compare to DL pay - you have to lay everything on the table and not cherry pick only the good
 
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eolesen said:
Tell me -- did you apologize to those L5's during all the years they got zero bonus and no raises while you were getting your guaranteed step increases?

Yeah, didn't think so.

Just remember that you guys choose to negotiate your compensation as all-fixed, while they're more or less given no choice about having some of their compensation be at-risk and dependent on the company's performance.

If you want bonuses, then join management. Just don't complain when you hit those years with zero raises while the union guys are getting the guaranteed base pay increases they were able to negotiate.
Sorry E this doesn't quite equate. Over an amount of years of course managers still get raises. The way they get raises is to make moves to other departments and cities or seek and secure promotions as their talents and abilities improve.

Lowest level CSM's are a different story. Plenty of CSM's don't put themselves out there to make moves and go up the ladder. They ***** and moan like everyone else that they are not getting raises or bonuses just like the Union member. I've asked plenty of them if they have ever put in for a transfer or tried to move up and it seems that they are quite content to remain where they are.

What we're having a problem currently with are the lies being told all over the country in those roadshows. Fleet and Maintenance particularly. First (Pre Parker) we had to give up the 10% PS to mitigate damage from the BK agreement. Then yes we agreed to exchange the last 5% for structural increases having no clue that oil would drop like a stone. Those two were on us. Now the 4% structural raise. Sure Parker couldn't give it to us or he would have had no hand to bargain with, understandable. But after the 14% announced over at DL there was no reason that he couldn't now release the 4% as a show of good grace and that this is going to be a new partnership for all? (Failure)

Not continuing to work with the Union for a decent "Revenue Gain Sharing" formula, which is in our contract (Failure)

And now making sure to take advantage of the language stupidly accepted for our Pre Funding retiree medical match that no one can be sure if us active employees (Probably not) will ever see a dime of and thinking we should be walking around as shinny happy people and begin to trust them as stated in Parker's last public comments (Failure) 

So yes knowing about the bonuses and Parker selling recently 5 MIllion dollars worth of AAL shares doesn't exactly give the average guy trying to support his family the warm and fuzzies (Failure)

And I didn't even bring up the fact that the Company negotiators want to talk about concessions after posting 7 Billion in profit last year? (Give me a break, Failure)

 
 
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WeAAsles said:
Sorry E this doesn't quite equate. Over an amount of years of course managers still get raises. The way they get raises is to make moves to other departments and cities or seek and secure promotions as their talents and abilities improve.
The "move up or around to make more money" approach stops at a certain point. L3's can do it to some degree, but it gets a lot tougher from there when the average ratio of 5's to 3/4's is 6:1, and it stays about the same from there up to the next level.

The only tried and true way for management to make money is to leave.
 
eolesen said:
Tell me -- did you apologize to those L5's during all the years they got zero bonus and no raises while you were getting your guaranteed step increases?

Yeah, didn't think so.

Just remember that you guys choose to negotiate your compensation as all-fixed, while they're more or less given no choice about having some of their compensation be at-risk and dependent on the company's performance.

If you want bonuses, then join management. Just don't complain when you hit those years with zero raises while the union guys are getting the guaranteed base pay increases they were able to negotiate.
 
If your not a management type WN is hiring 100 AMT's for line work in various cities this year and pays "profit sharing" with top of industry wages. 
 
eolesen said:
The "move up or around to make more money" approach stops at a certain point. L3's can do it to some degree, but it gets a lot tougher from there when the average ratio of 5's to 3/4's is 6:1, and it stays about the same from there up to the next level.

The only tried and true way for management to make money is to leave.
I've heard the standard line for too long now bandied about in the business world. "We have to compensate competitively to retain talent" I'm not quite sure how much that would actually apply if you were leaving a corporation that was showing losses for the last 10 years if any of those people were looking for greener pastures? Again I'm just not so sure if I ran a business that I would have been looking for someone who said that they were coming from AA during those years? Maybe I would take them on but I doubt I would have been looking to lure them away or offer them more than what they were making until they could prove to me their worth and that they can produce? Maybe you see it differently?

I know on the lower end of the wrung a few who were let go wound up back on their feet with the FAA or TSA. But I'll tell you, in those new jobs they weren't very kind when they ran in to their former employer when there were issues. They weren't very happy campers either.
 
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