How Delta Plays Politics in Washington: Who Needs Eric Cantor?

[WorldTraveler]

Those position papers are produced by or for DL.

Where's the public data from an unbiased source? You said that you rely on public data:


Here's your chance to shine. Where's the public data?

duh.... and who do you think produces Boeing's reports... except perhaps some of it they pay academics to write for them. If you read the documents, which are very readily available on delta.com, you should have no problem understanding DL's arguments.

Google pops up 521,000 results using the keywords Delta Air Lines Export Import Bank.

You wouldn't have any time to post on here in you read even half of the articles and documents that have been produced.

 

[eolesen]

If you read the documents, which are very readily available on delta.com, you should have no problem understanding DL's arguments.

I didn't ask for biased reports written on behalf of a client, or data written by a manufacturer or a bank who has a conflict of interest in the outcomes.

I've worked in consulting long enough to know that if you pay one enough, they'll gladly come up with a methodology or formula that will prove the outcome you want them to reach. And there's no shortage of consultants willing to do that, nor does there appear to be any shame in doing so.

Heck, there are reports from consultants and planning firms that showed opening up DAL to fly to all 48 states was going to result in the death of DFW... Should we believe those, too?

You said that you only need to use public data, not data made available to the public...

Where's the government data? Where's the third party think-tank data?


I guess it's also time to point out that I said two days that I happen to agree with DL's assessment. I just happen to disagree on the severity of the impact.

For whatever reason, you've decided to go down a rat hole with your statement "you do a nice deflection of saying all the right buzz words to try and get support from all of the other people who are equally as wrong about the issues as you are but the simple fact is that I use public data to assess what goes on at other carriers."

If I'm agreeing with you, then I guess you're as equally wrong as I am on the issue?


It's absurd the lengths that you will go to in trying to "win" a discussion, WT. As FWAAA said a few hours ago, you have this inane ability to argue with someone after they've already said they agreed with you. You might want to dial things back a bit.
 

Google pops up 521,000 results using the keywords Delta Air Lines Export Import Bank.

Google "OJ Simpson was framed" and you'll get 112,000 results.

It doesn't mean they're right, though.

 

[WorldTraveler]

if you don't want biased reports, then don't listen to any of the arguments from either Boeing or the ExIm Bank.

If you are gullible enough to think that Boeing isn't biased, then there really isn't a place for you in the discussion.

what are you trying to argue, E, other than just argue for the sake of arguing?

Delta is pursuing this case and they really don't care whether you approve of their strategy or not.

You have yet to present any kind of evidence one way or another - which is typical of what you do on this thread. You argue for the sake of arguing but are almost always left in the dust in the arguments anyway.

OTOH, you have an absolutely abysmal track record of trying to second guess DL strategies only to proven wrong later.

Post five things from both sides of the argument citing the documents on either side and then you might possibly be in a position to discuss the merits of the case instead of just attacking people or organizations.

If you are 1/100 of the consultant you claim to be, you should know how to find the data and frame your arguments.

 

[eolesen]

If I charged my standard consultant rate for a company like Delta, you'd be on the hook for $1200/day plus expenses for me to provide the answers you're asking for.

Have a great Labor Day everyone. I'm sure WT will be celebrating the lack of unions at DL,Kev will be celebrating the right to organize, and the other 87% of the country will be simply be having a barbeque and enjoying the day off.

Off to go burn some dead animal flesh now. Have fun winning the argument in my absence.

 

[WorldTraveler]

If you think that I am going to pay $1200/day for me to tell you the answers, you had better get another think coming.

you have provided no answers nor have you even discussed the issues.... all you have done is argue.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Those position papers are produced by or for DL.Where's the public data from an unbiased source? You said that you rely on public data:Here's your chance to shine. Where's the public data?

You will rarely find posts of his with graphics of the supporting data. You will also notice the lack of links to the data. What you see is general posts of percentages and comparisons that are easily explained away when they are proven patently false.

I stopped reading the posts for this reason.

 

[WorldTraveler]

yet here you are reading the thread right now.

I post plenty of links and sources.

You and others choose not to follow them because it doesn't present the story you want to hear.

in this case, the documents are very easy to find on delta.com showing DL's position. There are scores of pages of documents.

And other positions are also available elsewhere.

for someone to say they are a consultant and expect to be spoon fed the documents is a major red flag.

a basic google search turns up plenty of information for anyone who is even remotely interested in understanding the topic.

btw
here are no less than 3 links to documents or articles about DL and the ExIm Bank with supporting arguments by a number of non-DL sources. And several link to government sites.

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=20295&item=124520

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-14-642R

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=20295&item=124438

for either of you two to claim you couldn't find these documents - and there are dozens more says VOLUMES about you.

 

[eolesen]

Couldn't find, or just chose not to waste our time and effort?...

Again, this is a tempest in a teacup.

When you started the silly "Delta is getting A340's for free" thread a while ago, I pointed out that aircraft ownership expense is on average a 5-7% contributor to CASM.

If you factor in the difference that ExIm's interest rates have on that 5-7% line item, this is a nit compared to all the other issues out there, especially if the momentum is already working in DL's favor and ExIm's reauthorization doesn't happen until the new Congress and Senate are seated.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Again, you are free to choose what issues are important - but you don't run an airline and DL has decided this is an issue worth pursuing.

BTW, you do realize what even a 5% CASM disadvantage can do to a company's ability to compete?

on long haul flights, that kind of difference adds up to thousands of dollars very quickly.

DL has consistently been noted by analysts for its contrarian approach to managing aircraft costs while bringing debt down. DL's strategy works; the status quo of the aircraft market including the ExIm Bank is not something DL wants to either participate in or be harmed because of the inequity of the system.

If you find DL's strategies not something you would pursue, then either get on or be heard by their board but Wall Street is generally quite impressed with DL's willingness to take on structural issues, including the refinery that you and many others said wasn't going to work.

and if it really is insignificant, why do you feel the need to tell everyone else?

 

[eolesen]

Second verse, same as the first....

5% is the total cost of ownership, Skippy. The advantage that EK or QR has is the difference in interest on that they're getting from ExIm vs. a commercial loan. My guess is the incremental savings is less than 0.5% towards CASM.

0.5% is hardly why EK is winning their battle for world domination.

 

[WorldTraveler]

first, document where you came up with your figure of 5%.

second, there is no business that wants you in any leadership capacity if you are willing to brush off even 1/2 of 1% as inconsequential.

The big 3 US airlines are roughly $40B/yr companies.

If you don't think $200 million per year is insignificant, then you truly don't understand how thin margins in the airline airline have been.

third, here is yet one more article on the ExIm bank and even it acknowledges that the cost differences are real, that Boeing benefits, and that there is a counter impact to airlines even with Boeing's benefit

http://www.forbes.com/sites/airchive/2014/09/02/the-fight-over-the-export-import-bank-has-no-easy-answers/?partner=yahootix

again, I'm not sure what your point is in trying to argue something that another company is pursuing is insignificant.
.
Your opinion of the value isn't going to change one iota what DL is doing

 

[Force Majeure]

"Delta is getting A340's for free"

Where are those A-340's now?

Are they at the paint hangar?

 

[WorldTraveler]

ask E.

He is the one that made that statement.

I said that the economics of low cost (I don't think I never said free would be getting them for free - nothing in life really is- but I'm sure someone will find it if I really did say "free") 346s could work if they were part of a package for DL to acquire other Airbus aircraft.

The RFP hasn't been decided. With order cancellations by airlines for products of both A and B products, DL is likely going to be positioned to get what it needs - and may well still have room for growth aircraft despite setting 4 744s down.

Other than the aircraft market as a whole, not sure what that has to do with the topic here.

DL believes reforming the ExIm Bank is an effort worthy of the highest levels of DL execs and their time.

They have found traction on the subject in a number of key places, including the halls of Congress.

 

[eolesen]

first, document where you came up with your figure of 5%.

Nah, I'm not doing cites for your benefit. The information is public. You can find it.

 

[WorldTraveler]

all you need to do is explain why you are so consumed with trying to say that something that DL is doing is insignificant.

wait, if you think $200M is a rounding error and not worth pursuing, then it is completely clear why you would not see the value in pursuing an issue for which DL takes $200M per year (even using your calculations) very seriously.