IAM FILES AT DELTA FOR UNION REPRESENTATION

[Dignity]

I think the AA/TWA dead horse has been beaten to oblivion on those boards already.

the issue is the union.. what is very important about them and what happens when something in writing is forfeited, is sort of the point..., and for the sake of knowledge it is important to always remember history.. even if some feel its not important or an issue that need to be on the shelf.

because one generation may find an issue irrelevant another generation may find it useful for balanced perspectives.

 

[galleyguy4u2]

Not to mention Boeing had put in an offer and Carl tried to buy the airline back and one other airline which I don't remember. We were NOT in BK AA wanted us to file Chapt:11 to get rid of the leases and the Caribou <sp?> agreement with Carl. AWA survived 9/11 and they were in BK and survived. The myth was TWA was out of cash and that was simply not true.

The IAM simply signed our scope away without asking the membership. If our f/a's were able to vote on this, it would had been a resounding NO. We were also promised a facilitator to assist in the seniority issue and the APFA said no. Why? Because they probably would have suggested something fair. We were the only Union at TWA that got stapled. Other TWA work groups did get something except the f/a's. I would say if it happens to you, you would be fighting the same battle. Walk 23+ years in my shoes and see how it feels.

 

[tech2101]

The IAM would be my last choice for a union.

They are a picket line crossing union that performed struck mechanic work while I was on strike.

 

[Dignity]

Not to mention Boeing had put in an offer and Carl tried to buy the airline back and one other airline which I don't remember.

I cannot remember exactly the name, but I believe it was a group of investors, that is why I had mentioned a regional, I remember the bid was over AA's, I want to say SkyWest, or maybe just one of the executives at SkyWest?

 

[bagboy]

The IAM would be my last choice for a union.

They have done nothing but create misery for mechanics in the airline industry.

They are a picket line crossing union that performed struck mechanic work while I was on strike.

If you vote them in, you get what you deserve.

Your misery was created by leaving the IAM, and by falling into Richard's trap. Your strength was always in your numbers but you didn't want to be associated with "the unskilled". Your ego's were ultimately what brought you down. The rampers in the hubs didn't fix any airplanes, the didn't change any tires, we did, however, begin to do pushbacks. Is this your only basis for calling us ALL Scabs?

 

[galleyguy4u2]

Also, one needs to look at the history of Sherry Cooper who was President of IFFA at the time and sold us to the IAM including the thug Art Teolis. I must say Carla Winkler did her part as well. The IAM is all about $$$$$.

I have a letter from Robert Roach that said we will prevail and the IAM would fight for our seniority. Well guess what, that did not happen. The IAM Satin jackets just walked away from us. I did not vote for the IAM and inf act we tried to get rid of them and we almost did. The difference in votes were just a few.

Hot, you cannot rewrite our history. We know how it played out more than you. The TWA f/a's are strong and we are not going away. Nothing personal to you.

 

[tech2101]

Your misery was created by leaving the IAM, and by falling into Richard's trap. Your strength was always in your numbers but you didn't want to be associated with "the unskilled". Your ego's were ultimately what brought you down. The rampers in the hubs didn't fix any airplanes, the didn't change any tires, we did, however, begin to do pushbacks. Is this your only basis for calling us ALL Scabs?

Wrong. The reason we left the IAM was because of the misery created by them. They did not get it.

I did not call you (that term) what you said above.

I said your union endorsed the behavior, and actually encouraged people to go to different stations to train to perform work I was doing prior to going on strike. I watched them board aircraft I pushed back, to go and train to do my job in anticipation of my going on strike.

As a union member, there is no defense of that behavior.

That work was in the scope clause of our agreement; I was doing it one day, and my IAM/AFLCIO brothers were doing it the next day after crossing my picket line. All the while the president of your union was encouraging it. If you were anywhere where we did pushbacks at 11:59 and you started doing them at 12:01; then you determine what you need to be called.

Those at stations that were not staffed with AMT's, did not perform struck work as it was not covered in the scope clause in non-maintenance stations.

I will only state this once here for your benefit. I will not go over this again here as it has been thoroughly covered on this discussion board.

 

[bagboy]

"They are a picket line crossing union that performed struck mechanic work while I was on strike." Your words, not mine. You didn't say it in the same words, but you did say it. You are right, we have covered this before.

 

[Dignity]

if ground employees performed a pushback in the outstations would that not also be a ground position (rampers) in the hubs? (that particular function)

I am a little confused on that one.

as Flight Attendants we are trained to perform all Flight Attendant related duties system wide.

is that different for those on the ramp?

if there is someone in one group performing a pushback in the out stations, would not another member of that same group perform that function throughout the system including the hubs or was the ones doing pushback in the outstations.. that particular job was performed by a completely separate work group, such as a regional employee not employed by mainline?

 

[groundcontrol]

Wrong. The reason we left the IAM was because of the misery created by them. They did not get it.

I did not call you (that term) what you said above.

I said your union endorsed the behavior, and actually encouraged people to go to different stations to train to perform work I was doing prior to going on strike. I watched them board aircraft I pushed back, to go and train to do my job in anticipation of my going on strike.

As a union member, there is no defense of that behavior.

That work was in the scope clause of our agreement; I was doing it one day, and my IAM/AFLCIO brothers were doing it the next day after crossing my picket line. All the while the president of your union was encouraging it. If you were anywhere where we did pushbacks at 11:59 and you started doing them at 12:01; then you determine what you need to be called.

Those at stations that were not staffed with AMT's, did not perform struck work as it was not covered in the scope clause in non-maintenance stations.

I will only state this once here for your benefit. I will not go over this again here as it has been thoroughly covered on this discussion board.

I am also tired of this statement (quote bagboy)

"Your misery was created by leaving the IAM, and by falling into Richard's trap. Your strength was always in your numbers but you didn't want to be associated with "the unskilled". Your ego's were ultimately what brought you down."

This is so untrue, they continue to repeat it I would guess because they need an excuse for being strike defiers. Is this what the IAM told everyone to repeat as they did struck work?

note.....funny how he said "Richards trap", when it was Dougly at the helm. hmmmmm

 

[Dignity]

some well most.. in your group labeled all of us as a "strike defier" that would include Pilots and Flight Attendants, CSA and well everyone else..so why is it that some in the same group were given slack in outstations while others were not?

(even though they did not have any bearing at all in your department or perform your job function)

an interesting note..

even though the PFAA, the sister union to AMFA, PFAA leadership held a sympathy strike vote to determine what the majority should do..they did something very odd...

(I voted in that sympathy strike vote and so did everyone else I know)

here is the weird part..

PFAA never released the results..at all.

to this day I have no idea what those results were..

*I was a member in good standing the whole time.. as I paid all my dues in full to PFAA from day one, (even though it was voluntary for quite some time because we lost dues check off).. and participated in every election or vote that was made available and would have 100 percent supported the majority vote either way.. regarding any issue, unfortunately it was difficult to support an issue when the leadership refused to post the results, determining what the majority will do.

(there is a process that must be followed in these types of situations)

as a matter of fact when we questioned some of the PFAA reps they basically told us to..."do what you think you need to do"...ironically during that whole process they moved some of their offices off airport property and kind of went in hiding.. it appeared that way.. because after some time we could never get a hold of any base rep..as the phones just rang and rang and rang.

and since they did not call to do anything in support of the mechanics.. we would technically forfeit unemployment compensation.. if that was made available including any strike pay benefit (that I dont think we had any to tell you the truth)...basically we were under the impression to walk out the door without any recourse or timeline to return to our jobs, or any guarantee we would...

it was utter confusion.

and then some of the places there were no one walking picket lines, and then after a time (two weeks or so) no one was, and without any communication, no one really knew what was going on..

most of us were not even scheduled to fly when the strike first happened and then when we started to report to work later on, no one was walking a picket line, so..do we go to work or not?

zero communications..

handled very poorly by the PFAA....IMO

it was a very confusing time for everyone and to some it did not matter if Flight Attendant replacements were already trained to take our positions as they attempted to eliminate half our ranks to outsourcing.

 

[Kev3188]

if ground employees performed a pushback in the outstations would that not also be a ground position (rampers) in the hubs? (that particular function)

I am a little confused on that one.

as Flight Attendants we are trained to perform all Flight Attendant related duties system wide.

is that different for those on the ramp?

if there is someone in one group performing a pushback in the out stations, would not another member of that same group perform that function throughout the system including the hubs or was the ones doing pushback in the outstations.. that particular job was performed by a completely separate work group, such as a regional employee not employed by mainline?

AMT's represented by AMFA did pushbacks in ~ 27 cities (correct me if I'm wrong). In every other city, either ESE's or CSA's (if it was a 4 hour rule station) did it.

On top of that, some cities had cleaners as well, but many did not. For example, PDX had AMT's, but had never had cleaners; that job function was performed-and had been-by ESE's.

Part of the problem was that the language for pushbacks was in both the AMT CBA and the ESSC CBA. The company knew this and exploited it. Now ousted IAM PDGC Depace was all too willing to help, as he had taken on the attitude of a scorned lover in regards to the AMT's defecting to AMFA.

There is much much about all of this over on the NWA board if anyone wants to go check it out.

 

[Dignity]

On top of that, some cities had cleaners as well,

I didnt really quite understand why the cleaners were under AMFA instead of IAM or someone else, but..

you know the worst mistake in my opinion was letting all those cleaners go..

because the planes prior to them leaving were actually clean, they would come on as a team and really clean the planes, the seat pockets, lavs and actually push that sweeper thingy (whatever it is) to clean the floors and those seat belts were always crossed blankets folded and pillows (when we had them at the time) put in back in the bins..

for quite some time....

when they were gone, trash on the floors, the seatbelts were never crossed and blankets just tossed back in the bin those people just didnt care or really focus on cleaning the plane, the sweeper thingy for the floors just never materialized ever again! pretzels all on the floor...(you get the idea)

(I would go behind those new people and fold the blankets so it at least appeared presentable domestically) its a pet peeve of mine.. the only exception being International destinations in particular Japan, in Japan they would pull out a vacuum cleaner!

(and we would fill every trash can on the plane with all the service supplies picked up and go back and forth and still some passengers would trash the planes, it happens you just have to deal with it and clean it)..because

one thing that is a must for customers and that is a clean environment when they board!

cause its straight up nasty not to do so!

Delta seems to have that covered a whole lot better than it was during the NW bankruptcy, in regards to cleaning aircraft domestically at the hubs and where they have cleaners positioned domestically. Most NW ground crews seem to do a good job too from my observation at the outstations.

 

[tech2101]

I didnt really quite understand why the cleaners were under AMFA instead of IAM or someone else, but..

It was a NMB determination.

You probably did not know that the cleaners also cleaned aircraft engine parts prior to and during engine overhaul and maintenance activities. They were an integral part of the engine overhaul shop in Atlanta for NWA (Republic/Southern). They were also the best at getting the DC-9 clean after we opened one up for a heavy C, D, or Block Overhaul check of the Airframe at that same facility. If it were not for their fantastic job of getting the aircraft clean, we would not have been able to inspect the aircraft properly and conduct an adequate corrosion control program.

They did much more than empty the trash and hookie the carpets between flights.

That fact was lost on the management at NWA.

 

[Dignity]

It was a NMB determination.

oh that makes it was their decision..

were they IAM prior? and did they all want to go with AMFA, because most of your guys didn't seem so thrilled with the fact they were...(at least that's what some of them said)

I guess I should have clarified that comment, that I didn't understand why they were with AMFA because it seemed some of the guys didn't want them to be..

You probably did not know that the cleaners also cleaned aircraft engine parts prior to and during engine overhaul and maintenance activities. They were an integral part of the engine overhaul shop in Atlanta for NWA (Republic/Southern). They were also the best at getting the DC-9 clean after we opened one up for a heavy C, D, or Block Overhaul check of the Airframe at that same facility. If it were not for their fantastic job of getting the aircraft clean, we would not have been able to inspect the aircraft properly and conduct an adequate corrosion control program.

well of course I am sure they did more than just clean the cabin.. but of course being at In-Flight that is really the only observation we would have of the cleaners.. at that time as our workplace is the aircraft cabin.

They did much more than empty the trash and hookie the carpets between flights.

and of course with others, its more than cookies and peanuts..