IAM Organizing JetBlue Ramp

[WorldTraveler]

What you can't ignore are the facts

The statement that was made that DL employees are being helped by pay increases at other airlines is factually INCORRECT.

Deal with what was posted instead of childishly trying to hind behind internet tools to ignore the fact that DL has done more to lift the salaries of unionized airline employees in the US over the past 5 years and not the other way around.

It is precisely because you can't engage in a factual discussion that causes you to choose to block everything you can to avoid facing the facts.

Someone in this thread chose to include DL in the discussion and that issue will be addressed whether you or anyone else is capable of facing the facts.

if the narrative is ruined by the facts, then the narrative was pretty screwed up from the beginning.

Instead of building walls to block discussion - which dictators like Kim Jong-un do, how about you be grown up enough to admit that you are and have been wrong on a number of labor related issues?

 

[Albert]

what you can't ignore are the facts

the statement that was made that DL employees are being helped by pay increases at other airlines.

Deal with what is posted instead of childishly trying to hind behind internet tools to hide behind the fact that DL has done more to lift the salaries of unionized airline employees in the US over the past 5 years and not the other way around.

Someone in this thread chose to include DL in the discussion and that issue will be addressed whether you or anyone else is capable of facing the facts.

if the narrative is ruined by the facts, then the narrative was pretty screwed up from the beginning.

 DL gave the pilots raises to make the merger work and gave the other workers raises to keep the unions out.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Feel free to insert your justification for why things happened but the fact is that DL employees are the highest compensated legacy carrier employees and the union situated has not changed materially from what it was before the merger.

Tens of thousands of former PMNW IAM membership cards were rendered worthless by the votes of DL's combined workforce from both airlines.


If B6 gets further unions, it is because they thought they have shortchanged their people and they deserve to get unions.

But it also doesn't meant that having a union will move B6 employees up to levels that other carriers' employees make.

 

[700UW]

History Channel.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Feel free to insert your justification for why things happened but the fact is that DL employees are the highest compensated legacy carrier employees and the union situated has not changed materially from what it was before the merger.

Tens of thousands of former PMNW IAM membership cards were rendered worthless by the votes of DL's combined workforce from both airlines.
 

DL  justifies raising compensation as it is the only way to prevent unionization.

 

[700UW]

What you can't ignore are the facts

The statement that was made that DL employees are being helped by pay increases at other airlines is factually INCORRECT.

Deal with what was posted instead of childishly trying to hind behind internet tools to ignore the fact that DL has done more to lift the salaries of unionized airline employees in the US over the past 5 years and not the other way around.

It is precisely because you can't engage in a factual discussion that causes you to choose to block everything you can to avoid facing the facts.

Someone in this thread chose to include DL in the discussion and that issue will be addressed whether you or anyone else is capable of facing the facts.

if the narrative is ruined by the facts, then the narrative was pretty screwed up from the beginning.

Instead of building walls to block discussion - which dictators like Kim Jong-un do, how about you be grown up enough to admit that you are and have been wrong on a number of labor related issues?

Stick to something you know.
 
Every airline compares its pay to others, I have sat across the table twice in negotiations, once with US for M&R and second for the FAs at CO.
 
DL most certainly does give raises to keep the unions out, ask anyone from labor relations at any airline and they will tell you different.
 
You are truly clueless about organizing, and you are a bitter former DL employee, who was paid to leave DL.

 

[1AA]

Looks like the IAM is trying to recruit more victims for their loser IAMPF. I hope they are smart enough to realize that the IAM is not the same union as in the days of Eastern and United Airlines were.

 

[700UW]

The IAMNPF is separate from the IAM.

And just because you are or become an IAM member doesnt mean you will be enrolled in the IAMNPF, that is negotiated between the company and the union, and then voted on by the membership.
 
But you already know this, but wont admit it, as it doesnt fit your narrative.

 

[700UW]

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL  justifies raising compensation as it is the only way to prevent unionization.

except for DECADES, DL's employees have made more than their peers at non-union airlines.

and the facts today continue to show that to be true.

DL employees have had higher increases in compensation which now result in higher overall compensation than their peers at other airlines .

You wanna know a very big reason why DL people in the SE know the power of unions to destroy while DL has the power to improve compensation experience better than its peers?

Eastern Airlines.

Many of you fail to remember that DL grew in many cities because of the failure of Eastern Airlines and DL and EA shared ATL. Now ATL is largely DL operated - with a smattering of WN.

We can argue about whose fault it was but many people in the SE including the former EA FA who sold me a house know full well the power of labor conflict to destroy a company while DL employees have enjoyed a more peaceful working environment and better financial success.

trying to argue that DL people have benefitted because of gains that the labor union has made is the complete opposite of what has actually taken place.

But if DL employees have gained because of the failure of the labor movement to actually provide something better, DL people have gotten the best without having to pay for union representation.

and B6 will be just one more company that paid lip service to taking care of its employees while actually paying them less - and ended up with unions as a result.

 

[700UW]

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

We can argue about whose fault it was but many people in the SE including the former EA FA who sold me a house know full well the power of labor conflict to destroy a company while DL employees have enjoyed a more peaceful working environment and better financial success.

 
so why is it then that super successful, non-union, mighty DL had to go file chapter 11?

 

[700UW]

And EA was destroyed by Frank Lorenzo, the only man banned from ever being involved in an airline.
 
The IAM, ALPA and the TWU all struck EA.

But World Fraudster loves to lie, he doesnt know fact from fiction anymore.
 
My Uncle was an Inspector with EA for 29 years, I lived it, and walked the picket lines with him.

Here is the truth, not the world according to world fraudster.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSSPAM3vauw
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mya5HUDOWX0
 
Says something when a whole company's unionized workforce goes on strike.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm not going to argue what brought EA down certainly not on the B6 forum.

And I do not for a minute excuse mgmt. at EA.

and the fact that EA mgmt. alienated not only the workforce but also many of its customers because of the labor issues shows why the shutdown was waiting to happen - which might well have been Lorenzo's goal.


Nonetheless, I can tell you that many, many people in the ATL area as well as elsewhere in the SE including Florida - both airline employees and others - see DL and EA as a tale of two airlines - one that has succeeded and one that is gone.
 

so why is it then that super successful, non-union, mighty DL had to go file chapter 11?

because labor issues clearly weren't the primary driver behind the collapse in fares that followed 9/11 - and you know that.

The airline industry experienced dramatic and unprecedented drops in revenue and the legacy carriers - none of them - were able to continue without major reductions in their cost structure.

Low cost carriers were still benefiting from low labor and a relatively strong revenue environment and were able to weather 9/11 better than the legacies.

It is also noteworthy that now with almost a decade and a half between 9/11 and today, the low cost carrier segment is taking a back seat to legacies and it is the LCCs themselves that are having to become more "legacy-like" including for B6.

no one said that labor was the cause of legacy carrier financial issues post 9/11 which means that DL was no better or worse off because of its labor stance than other carriers and EA was long gone by 9/11.

 

[Albert]

Looks like the IAM is trying to recruit more victims for their loser IAMPF. I hope they are smart enough to realize that the IAM is not the same union as in the days of Eastern and United Airlines were.

What union  is as strong as it once was? especially in this industry do you remember how powerful ALPA used to be? Bottom line is Jetblue will have to pay their pilots industry standard or they will leave for the big four and since jetblue doesnt generate the revenue the money will have to come from somewhere that usually means  other work groups.