IAM Organizing JetBlue Ramp

[ThirdSeatHero]

Which is why I said "virtually unheard of"

and if you put all of PMUS ramp's compensation increases beside DL's, PMUS ramp would be well below what DL employees got.

Parker wanted the merger to go smoothly and has thrown some money at labor to make that happen.

There is no assurance he will continue to increase pay.

And the question still is whether a union at B6 will result in any meaningful increase in pay above what they were planning to give anyway.

 
OR...... maybe they'll get the protection of a ratified contract, with better scope, scheduling, and work rules ..... and some pay too.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Better pension, better and cheaper insurance, and most of all job security.

except at DL those things simply are the claims of union sales people and not supported by verifiable facts.

and specific to B6, they might get some of the things they want, but there is absolutely no assurance they will.

They will get stuck with a union that will cost hundreds of dollars per year for each employee though.

 

[700UW]

Yes they are, just about every item in a CBA has a monetary value.

You are wrong once again.

 

[WorldTraveler]

didn't say that.

I did say that you can't prove in real life that the CBA translates into real value.

the DOT does measure this stuff and US' benefits package is the lowest value of the big 5.

The notion that US has some great advantage is not proven in real life.

 

[Dog Wonder]

The notion that US has some great advantage is not proven in real life.

You have a real life?

 

[WorldTraveler]

regardless of what I have or don't have, I can read about what others have and in this case US' benefits package is worth less than any of the other big 4 airlines.

 

[Dog Wonder]

You can fantasize all you want about the the impact of unions on DL compensation. It has more substance than your babbling denials.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and yet when pressed for evidence, you come up with mere speculation - on your part.

and you also cannot deny that DL employees have seen larger and higher rates of compensation than any other remotely comparable US airline.

If DL was just following, they wouldn't be leading.

 

[swamt]

You cant negotiate pay scales if your non-union, that is against the law.

700, You are wrong.  You can in fact negotiate your pay scale if you are non-union. It is not against the law. I have done it time and time again over my employment years while being an aircraft mechanic. Pls explain your post in more detail.  I have numerous times negotiated and increased my pay scale many times (while non-union) after speaking to sups, managers and even directors of HR. Where in the world did you get that it was against the law to negotiate your pay scale if you are non-union?  That's crazy. It's happens every single day when folks go into their bosses office and ask for a raise...
 

 
I never said DL wasn't free to grant raises as they see fit - I've stated that DL has given raises at the onset or during organizing or most recently the merger with NWA - the statements are not exclusive.
 
 
As far as B6 goes that may be your opinion but from what Ive read OUTSIDE this forum, and from those Ive SPOKEN to, while wages are indeed a concern it isn't a premier issue. There is alot more going on there than people not getting paid enough.

Correct. Wages are not always the main issue.  It is more likely that the work conditions, rules or schedules are major factor as well as job security. The company wants to believe it's the wages as they always try to buy the membership off, thinking, it's all about the wages, when work rules usually can and will do more damage in the long run.  THIS is why we should all read the full contract offers being made by the company as they always try and sneak in the language to repay the wage increases and then some.  
Just as the pilots reasons for voting in union representation was due to the industry mergers and they would not be represented during such a case if that were to come to light with JB--Very smart move by the pilots. Their top reason was to be represented for a possible merger in the future, NOT for wages. Other groups should follow at JB...

 

[700UW]

A group of employees, "negotiating" with the company if they are non-union, is against, the law, you cant have company "unions", like he stated a group of employees were negotiating for ALL of the classification, is against the law if you are non-union.
 
You were negotiating for yourself, about your compensation, not everyone's compensation.
 
In your eagerness to try and slam me, compare apples to apples, not oranges.

 

[Aviatormx08]

A group of employees, "negotiating" with the company if they are non-union, is against, the law, you cant have company "unions", like he stated a group of employees were negotiating for ALL of the classification, is against the law if you are non-union.
 
You were negotiating for yourself, about your compensation, not everyone's compensation.
 
In your eagerness to try and slam me, compare apples to apples, not oranges.

Like I said, the company created a group called the Values Committee in every department. They are a group of employees and leads who gather all the questions and concerns of the department and bring it up to management. I spent a year at b6 tech ops. From my understanding at my time there. Every 3 years the committee is allowed to present valid proof that pay should be increased compared to other carriers. Not saying they can negotiate and if they dont come to an agreement, they go to mediation or a strike. Then in that case you would be right about it being illegal. But the company developed these group to keep employees happy. The pilots got a huge increase in pay with their values committee just months before they voted in the union. Just to prove it wasn't all about pay. And that is the very reason they created the values committee, to keep employee's interest in mind without having to go union. Now with the union in place they have someone to protect them and no more throwing things under the rug with a BS committee of disgruntled employees.

 

[Dog Wonder]

and you also cannot deny that DL employees have seen larger and higher rates of compensation than any other remotely comparable US airline.
 

The benevolent dictators at DL are the greatest.  There is no way they would pay more to keep unions out.  You can be stupid in one line.  Quit babbling.

 

[WorldTraveler]

instead of name calling, how about you prove my statement wrong.

Of course you can't so you instead resort to name calling.

DL employees have received larger and more frequent increases in compensation than those of any large other US airline

Given that fact IS true, then it makes FALSE the claims that DL employees have only benefitted because of unions at other airlines.

and if B6 employees chose a union, it is because they are in part in watching their compensation fall relative to their peers, which include DL

 

[700UW]

Last year alone PMUS recieved a bigger raise than DL employees had in the past 2 to 4 years depending which pay scale DL employees are on.
 
See in a union CBA, everyone gets the same percentage raise, unlike DL, who gave 2% to 4% raises, depending which of the three pay scales you are placed on.
 
And at PMUS and at PMAA there are no such thing as ready reserve employees who dont get the same pay nor do they get any benefits and they are doing the same job as part time and full time DL ramp, who are benefited.
 
There is a great post from Lucky777 on the DL Grassroots thread, great reading.
 
 

Perhaps the most ironic thing in all of this talk about unions and who does/doesn't want them is the fact that Delta themselves might be the ones ultimately most responsible for the success of the unions gaining acceptance at Delta with the "Ready Reserve" program. The stated goal of the ready reserve, at least in the non-hub stations, is to have ACS in those cities reach a 50/50 full-time/part-time, ready reserve ratio. The hubs may be another story altogether, I'm not sure on that.
 
I can only imagine that as time goes by and the ranks of benefitted employees in ACS continue to shrink while ready reserve numbers grow by the day that even the most die-hard anti-union folks start looking at the writing on the wall and come to the conclusion that representation is desperately needed.
 
This of course says nothing of how the thousands upon thousands of ready reserves are beginning to feel, if they haven't already of course, of working shoulder-to-shoulder with benefitted co-workers who make over twice as much in base pay along with vacation/sick pay/401k etc etc....
 
The point in all this being that while for now the financial benefit the company is seeing by essentially having an ever larger number of its frontline employees fallng under the "Ready Reserve" umbrella might ultimately be what's most responsible for the success of the unions gaining acceptance at Delta.

 

[swamt]

A group of employees, "negotiating" with the company if they are non-union, is against, the law, you cant have company "unions", like he stated a group of employees were negotiating for ALL of the classification, is against the law if you are non-union.
 
You were negotiating for yourself, about your compensation, not everyone's compensation.
 
In your eagerness to try and slam me, compare apples to apples, not oranges.

Sorry you took it as a slam and I am wondering why?  And BTW I have also seen a group of employees approaching their sup and getting a group of employees under that sup raises, better days off and more time off.  Rather alone or as a group it is not against the law to ask for raises from your employer anyplace I have worked.