Incarceration Industrial Complex

WTF? Whose stupid idea is that?

Should airline mechanics be required to fix poor people's cars at no charge for a week or two each year? Not all Airframe and Powerplant licensed mechanics know how to competently fix automobilies. Should flight attendants be required to donate their time to staff soup kitchens and homeless shelters for a couple weeks each summer?

Most "real" lawyers in this country don't have the slightest clue how to serve as an effective public defender. If there aren't enough public defenders, society needs to step up and raise their pay and hire sufficient numbers of them.

Instead of requiring high income professionals to "donate" their time doing something they probably won't do very well, increase their taxes and hire well-trained public defenders with the proceeds.

If a licensed A&P can't competently fix an automobile, they have no business working on aircraft.

Your comment on 'real lawyers' not having the slightest clue as how to work as a public defender shows you lack of understanding for all things legal.

Why is it that more defendants using public defenders go to jail instead of the ones using the 'high priced' attorneys they can not afford?

Attorneys do better in private practice rather than public service for the most part.

You come across as a very selfish individual regarding your reaction to my comments on donating some of ones time to their respective community.

If more people donated time to various venues, My God, the world just might be a little better because of that.
 
If a licensed A&P can't competently fix an automobile, they have no business working on aircraft.

Your comment on 'real lawyers' not having the slightest clue as how to work as a public defender shows you lack of understanding for all things legal.

Why is it that more defendants using public defenders go to jail instead of the ones using the 'high priced' attorneys they can not afford?

Attorneys do better in private practice rather than public service for the most part.

You come across as a very selfish individual regarding your reaction to my comments on donating some of ones time to their respective community.

If more people donated time to various venues, My God, the world just might be a little better because of that.

I tend to agree with FWAAA.

Most attorneys are not practicing criminal law, and would be horrible at being a public defender with no training, mentoring or OJT.

It would be like having an A&P who has done nothing but hangar sheetmetal work all his/her career and asking her/him to do an annual on a King Air-300. They would be clueless.

That said, I have heard of criminal defense attorneys being ordered to do pro-bono work for indigent clients.
 
delldude: I generally agree with your premise; I just disagree with your proposed solution.

Overworked, underpaid public defenders' clients probably don't get the same breaks afforded to the criminals who can pay $$$ to high-priced criminal defense attorneys. Those overworked, underpaid PDs often don't have enough time or resources to devote to each client like they should.

And you're right - lawyers in private practice generally enjoy much higher incomes than their public employee counterparts.

But this comment of yours: "You come across as a very selfish individual regarding your reaction to my comments on donating some of ones time to their respective community" reveals how little you know about what I do. I'd be committing malpractice to advise you on a jaywalking ticket or a public intox arrest, let alone a serious misdemeanor or felony indictment. I know my limitations. What I do have is money, and deficiencies in the criminal justice system can be better remedied by taxing me and employing competent lawyers to fix the problem (the problem we agree on).

Selfish? Nope. I took a class in criminal law and an evidence class in my first year, and that was almost 40 years ago. My JD didn't require that I learn criminal procedure (that was an elective) and since I wasn't planning to work any criminal cases (neither DA or defense), I didn't learn how to conduct a criminal trial. My continuing legal education requirements have never prepared me for criminal defense work.

"Donating some of one's time?" What? Your earlier post said "should be required to do public defender work . . . " Since when is "required" the same as "donate"?

There are hundreds of thousands of lawyers in this country who would be similarly incompetent at criminal defense work.

Perhaps what you meant to post earlier was "Highly-paid CRIMINAL DEFENSE lawyers should be required to do public defender pro bono work in lieu of their comfortable lifestyle and salary." At least that wouldn't result in criminal convictions due to "ineffective counsel" as my hypothetical clients would suffer.

I'll admit to a weak analogy, owing to my lack of knowledge about aircraft maintenance. Glenn's analogy appears more sound. I would prefer that the mechanic who works on the engine before my next flight not be a sheet metal expert who hasn't touched an engine since they graduated from Lincoln Tech and passed the licensing exam 30 years ago.

How about this one: Psychiatrists go to medical school just like all the other doctors. Should middle-age shrinks be conscripted to work in county general emergency rooms to help with unmet needs? After all, a doctor is a doctor, right? My guess is that some poorly-funded public hospitals with overworked, underpaid ER docs don't produce the same positive outcomes as the well-funded "desirable" hospitals in the same metro areas.

Yes, the world would be a much better place if more people donated their time (and more money) to helping those who need help. But I strongly disagree that forcing people to work outside of their area of expertise would be an improvement. In my view, better to tax the successful (the monetary successful) and use that money to hire and train competent people to alleviate those societal failures. Fortunately, I get to determine what activities fulfill my pro bono requirements without input from others.

Back to the Glenn's original point - I'm not in favor of releasing known violent individuals while they're awaiting trial or a guilty plea. But people accused of nonviolent offenses? Lower bail or even release on recognizance (with no cash required) is ok with me.
 
Your opening statement, "WTF? Who's stupid idea is that?", set the stage for my attitude and resulting response, sorry about that.....although it sure sounded like someone offended at the suggestion of what to do with their spare time.

Advocate for higher taxes off the backs of Joe Sixpack and his family and get back to me. Your average PD makes about $50K if they are lucky.....for many it's a stepping stone to criminal or other areas in law.

Lower bail or ROR? Many cities are changing to summary offenses for minor crimes, most can't make $100 on a $10,000 bond.....ROR?, then you spend more of those tax dollars that could buy more PD's , on chasing down no shows.

Not all criminal defense lawyers are highly paid either. The average perp can't even afford a modestly priced defense from a low on the totem pole up and coming CD lawyer.....the deck is stacked against someone in jail for criminal matters.....unless he has access to high end defense, which more often than not, won't happen.

Pro sports people are required to donate their time to the community.......your shrink, in a devastating event due to weather or man, in his city....is he going to help people on an couch or use his medical skills he acquired before specializing, to help overloaded hospitals?

And your flight concerns......that person who works sheet metal has the same training that the guy changing the rudder does, which was being trained to work out of the aircraft's maintenance and procedure manuals and performing the work outlined in that manual in a standalone setting without anyone holding their hand.....even after 30 years.

So now what? We're back to square one.
 
Not sure where the RT thing came from?

I don't see many replies to these threads from trolls long blocked/ignored.

Willful ignorance/censorship/etc only counts as a "blessing" to those completely afraid to, or wholly unable to actually think. Try the "think" thing sometime if you can. It might well prove initially painful, but you would likely be amazed at the multitude of doors that eventually opens. ;)
 
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If more people donated time to various venues, My God, the world just might be a little better because of that.

No argument whatsoever. Heck, just the admittedly selfish "feel good" payoff from such is amazing, but none of us have ANY Right to force others to do so. Any even possible "fix" for the public defender issue would have to come through elevating the position to one that's both socially and financially viable, and thus better ensuring seriously capable people fill it....And I sadly won't hold my breath for that to happen.

"Your average PD makes about $50K if they are lucky.....for many it's a stepping stone to criminal or other areas in law." Indeed, and the sorry and largely amoral cadre of legal "professionals" seem extremely content to keep it so.
 
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In my view, better to tax the successful (the monetary successful) and use that money to hire and train competent people to alleviate those societal failures.

Oh, I see. So you are against forcing a lawyer to donate his time and expertise but, you are supportive of forcing taxpayers to endure higher cost for someone else's legal defense.

From my point of view it is the same thing.

Is taxing me more money not forcing me to donate to someone else's legal defense (against my will I might add)?

Do you really think collecting more taxes from working Americans is going to fix that issue?

Seriously?
 
Oh, I see. So you are against forcing a lawyer to donate his time and expertise but, you are supportive of forcing taxpayers to endure higher cost for someone else's legal defense.

From my point of view it is the same thing.

Is taxing me more money not forcing me to donate to someone else's legal defense (against my will I might add)?

Do you really think collecting more taxes from working Americans is going to fix that issue?

Seriously?

Why not? Collecting more taxes from me so you could go to school helped "fix an issue."
 
Why not? Collecting more taxes from me so you could go to school helped "fix an issue."
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