JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Tim Nelson]

I think you're confused? We don't have Ready Reseve and we don't pay as much for medical as you. We also don't have to worry about management harassment or maybe being fired unjustly because we're paid too much and they want to replace us with cheaper human resources.
Are you trying to "claim" you have better than us? Don't think so bro.

And he can be thankful that he still has a job when your union agreed with management to cleanse dozens of stations and only keep 17, genius.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Hey Kev. I thought you might be interested in reading these. This is a link to the TWO contracts (Collective bargaining agreements) we have here at AA. Didn't you USED to have one of these?
http://m.iam141.org/site/us/index.html?imz_st
I think if you work very hard and put in as much effort as possible you can have one of these again? Unless it's not something you want anymore since Nelson says Delta will cut your walls off if you even try to go for it.
I think you are a very smart guy though. You should go into management. You'll make a very valuable asset and they'll give you a raise I'm sure.

Court cases dont lie. Since the amfa case, management just contracts out all rampers after unionization. The only exception is that the iam kept fll at spirit provided they took a pay cut and topped out after 8 years at $14.25 and no other articles other than dues, and see management.

Delta will certainly wipe out kev and all cargo and all stations except maybe atl.

 

[WeAAsles]

Readers need to always be wary of "The Wreckers"

http://youtu.be/ClbE019cLNI

 

[Kev3188]

And he can be thankful that he still has a job when your union agreed with management to cleanse dozens of stations and only keep 17, genius.

BK stinks for everyone, but 143 could walk out of the courtroom with 40 stations, how come the TWU could only muster 17?

 

[WeAAsles]

BK stinks for everyone, but 143 could walk out of the courtroom with 40 stations, how come the TWU could only muster 17?

Kev, Kev, Kev?????? You left this out?????? What you have no comment on it?

"Delta will certainly wipe out kev and all cargo and all stations except maybe atl"

Kev Delta is going to WIPE YOU OUT if you try to get a Union in. Absolutely decimate, destroy, chop you into little pieces if you even open your mouth about a Union.

How sad that something you just said you loved you will NEVER have again.

 

[Kev3188]

Never say never.

The more likely near term scenario is that they wait until You, UA, and WN all have new wage rates locked in, and then wipe everyone out, undercutting the other carriers on labor costs. Absent a CBA, that's how it plays out.

At the same time, the choice all DL workers face is whether they're okay with their working conditions in their current form, or if they want to change them. Could they do as Tim notes? Yep. Will they? Maybe. But nothing of value ever comes without risk.

In the meantime, we exceed what US/AA workers get in several areas. That should be the minimum jump off point for your NC. Period.

Speaking of stations, you might've missed my question, but how come we were able to come out of 1113 with 40 stations, but your team only came away with 17?

 

[robbedagain]

The question, at this time, isnt to ditch the Association, but for the iam to stop the masness and start moving things forward as opposed to putting forth a sloppy very very unprofessional image in which the company got pissed off like hell and busted our balls by only offering 6 holidays. Granted, management is also responsible but management is frustrated with the lack of unity between the 2 groups. Thats the story whether you believe it or not.

 
Tim  under the Canale regime I felt it was worse than now but I am probably judging based on the fact that the airline was Ch 11  twice  and the crap hit the fan  then HP brought US out and it helped but not much   Then the new leadership took over and it feels like it got better   and now that we have the Association and with multi billion dollar profits I really do not see our leadership accept anything with concessions like CWA did    But that is just my own opin as I see it now.   I also feel the longer it takes the better our contract will be   but again I want to see hard proof when it comes out   they have 22 articles TA and about 8 more close to being TA and now there in the scope and wages area of the contract and few more  I believe itll be sooner rather than later we will see a possible JCBA     I do blame mgmt. moreso than our leadership and a fine example is how our union was prepared on day one meeting w mgmt. and mgmt. was not prepared at all   Yes I know peeps are frustrated

 

[WeAAsles]

Never say never.
The more likely near term scenario is that they wait until You, UA, and WN all have new wage rates locked in, and then wipe everyone out, undercutting the other carriers on labor costs. Absent a CBA, that's how it plays out.
At the same time, the choice all DL workers face is whether they're okay with their working conditions in their current form, or if they want to change them. Could they do as Tim notes? Yep. Will they? Maybe. But nothing of value ever comes without risk.
In the meantime, we exceed what US/AA workers get in several areas. That should be the minimum jump off point for your NC. Period.
Speaking of stations, you might've missed my question, but how come we were able to come out of 1113 with 40 stations, but your team only came away with 17?

Well at least FINALLY you refuted "somewhat" something Nelson had to say. I was beginning to think you had become one of those radical Muslum wives under harsh Sharia Law that would never say anything against her husband.

Good for you for taking your first small step.

And NO I don't believe they will wipe you out because they're operation will suffer big time. But they will keep a lid on those of you who make those higher wages. Just enough to keep a decent mix. If the operation on the Ramp does suffer they will upgrade just enough to get it to run smooth again. Like turning a pressure valve.

Edit: Well documented history. IAM sacrifices pay to keep stations, TWU sacrifices stations to keep pay.

Probably has a little to do with how the dues is structured between the two organizations at least somewhat.

 

[WeAAsles]

Tim  under the Canale regime I felt it was worse than now but I am probably judging based on the fact that the airline was Ch 11  twice  and the crap hit the fan  then HP brought US out and it helped but not much   Then the new leadership took over and it feels like it got better   and now that we have the Association and with multi billion dollar profits I really do not see our leadership accept anything with concessions like CWA did    But that is just my own opin as I see it now.   I also feel the longer it takes the better our contract will be   but again I want to see hard proof when it comes out   they have 22 articles TA and about 8 more close to being TA and now there in the scope and wages area of the contract and few more  I believe itll be sooner rather than later we will see a possible JCBA     I do blame mgmt. moreso than our leadership and a fine example is how our union was prepared on day one meeting w mgmt. and mgmt. was not prepared at all   Yes I know peeps are frustrated

Plus 10 if I could.

 

[Kev3188]

Well at least FINALLY you refuted "somewhat" something Nelson had to say. I was beginning to think you had become one of those radical Muslum wives under harsh Sharia Law that would never say anything against her husband.

Good for you for taking your first small step.
.

We actually disagree on a few very fundamental things; you're just too ate up on what we /do/ agree on to see 'em.

Nice try at emasculation, though.

 

[Kev3188]

 
Tim  under the Canale regime I felt it was worse than now but I am probably judging based on the fact that the airline was Ch 11  twice  and the crap hit the fan  then HP brought US out and it helped but not much   Then the new leadership took over and it feels like it got better   and now that we have the Association and with multi billion dollar profits I really do not see our leadership accept anything with concessions like CWA did    But that is just my own opin as I see it now.   I also feel the longer it takes the better our contract will be   but again I want to see hard proof when it comes out   they have 22 articles TA and about 8 more close to being TA and now there in the scope and wages area of the contract and few more  I believe itll be sooner rather than later we will see a possible JCBA     I do blame mgmt. moreso than our leadership and a fine example is how our union was prepared on day one meeting w mgmt. and mgmt. was not prepared at all   Yes I know peeps are frustrated

I hope you're right, but the reality is that all of the "easy" (as in non economic) articles should've been agreed to by both unions before they even went to the table. And once there, they should've been T/A'ed straight away.

Now we have DP throwing shade on your team during Town Halls- where's the rebuttal? Why are they letting the C-Suite set the tone?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim  under the Canale regime I felt it was worse than now but I am probably judging based on the fact that the airline was Ch 11  twice  and the crap hit the fan  then HP brought US out and it helped but not much   Then the new leadership took over and it feels like it got better   and now that we have the Association and with multi billion dollar profits I really do not see our leadership accept anything with concessions like CWA did    But that is just my own opin as I see it now.   I also feel the longer it takes the better our contract will be   but again I want to see hard proof when it comes out   they have 22 articles TA and about 8 more close to being TA and now there in the scope and wages area of the contract and few more  I believe itll be sooner rather than later we will see a possible JCBA     I do blame mgmt. moreso than our leadership and a fine example is how our union was prepared on day one meeting w mgmt. and mgmt. was not prepared at all   Yes I know peeps are frustrated

Canale and reagon were the worse. How those 2 could agree to start 40 yr members back on day 1 for pay purposes after being laid off for 30 days was criminal. Canale had to go. Our current contract is the best one we have worked under but is 30% less wage, no ps, awful retirement contribution and a complete disaster with paid days off. The health care and scope should be coveted though.

As far as the cwa, they got enhancements in every single article. Not sure who you are listening to or reading.

10 holidays: double time: holiday premium: 12 sick days paid full: better company retirement contribution: scope for all stations with 5 flight: grandfather all other employees from other stations: double time for any mandatory even for part time; shift differ, etc. And 75% were non contract and had zero everything before.

In fact, the cwa contract is a precise witness to parker delivering. Increases across the board. We have 100% employees under contract and 3 years later we secured ta's on uniforms, bulletin boards, water fountains and other minor articles. And NO, the association is NOT prepared and hasnt even opened ANY of the 6 major articles that the situation between the twu and iam has become tense (scope, wage, duration, health care, retirement, and one other). Thats a fact.

 

[WeAAsles]

We actually disagree on a few very fundamental things; you're just too ate up on what we /do/ agree on to see 'em.

Nice try at emasculation, though.

You responded to it so I would have to say it was successful. And since you're younger and so silent I had to paint you as the wife in your relationship. There's no other way to view it for me.

Anyway I'm heading up to Boca to hang with my cousins but before I start my drive I have to say:

The thing Nelson has been saying about what will happen if you guys organize is STUPID. Totally stupid actually. Delta is an International carrier that cares a great deal about customer service and caters to a somewhat rich clientele. You don't think they know full well what happened over at UAL when they did their chopping block routine.

So NO they will NOT decimate you if you were to organize period!!!!! Probably would threaten whatever Union you got that they were going to though but best bet would be a few very small stations would chop off and you would finally get a real cap on those RR's. Not sure you'd get rid of them on the first go around, probably the next contract after that.

But one more time the idea of your ranks being decimated if you were to organize is high falooting, razz matazz, bounce the walls in a white jacket, STUPID!!

Have a nice day.

 

[Kev3188]

Haha. If I was half as insecure as you have been lately, I might be upset. But I'm not. I just see it all as ever more desperate attempts to attack the messenger.

Boca sounds fun. Enjoy your trip.

 

[Tim Nelson]

We actually disagree on a few very fundamental things; you're just too ate up on what we /do/ agree on to see 'em.
Nice try at emasculation, though.

Not sure if we disagree. We are referring to some future event. I just see it as very unlikely that anti union delta would grow a heart and keep many of you. Cargo would certainly be wiped out. Maybe atl sticks around but your opinion is as valid as mine.

I do agree that our ta dragging out has saved your station. Once we settle, there is nothing keeping delta from wiping out all of you, i just think you triple the risk if you vote in union under the later court cases. The whole "status quo" thing is a farce.