JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

Thank goodness you strive for civility.

I'm much more civil in person. And I rarely ever bite unless she asks me to.

Coffee? Whatever you want on me. I got a great deal on my new Mustang. Very low interest and payments. Think I can even afford a Venti Frappachino.

 

[WeAAsles]

How many people have you called or sent a private message to see how your doing on the thread? You know, because you're doing so well.

No one. They're here reading this and see our entire conversation and eventually give me a call.

I've got no strings attached to my arms bro.

 

[WeAAsles]

Not at all. The problem is you give your side of the issue without having all the facts. Usually, if you want to make a comparison it is usually a good idea to get both sides of the issue. You defended a position without knowing the other side or what the language may be.

And without knowing both sides. you argue and argue your point is correct. Trying to convince people of your point with 50% of the information. Then you get 60% and the side changes. You get another 15% and yet again there is a change. That leads to fence walking and credibility problems.

I never stated I knew what the language was that they TA'd. Now though it seems thanks to you and possibly LAX I've been clued in?

I always stated and still do that I prefer as little items in the hands of management as possible. You've argued against the flexibility for that when it comes to the CS policy.

I don't like them holding that economic gun.

We just have a philosophical difference on the issue is all. Nothing we should have needed kick each other in the groin over.

 

[Albert]

Let's make this simple Al. After reading what LAX posted that doesn't seem to be the case?

Is that something you can do right now and it doesn't count against your Swap Shift allotment?

Meaning you work for one guy on Tue Wed and then a totally different guy picks up your Sat Sun even if it's not in the same week or it is?

I have a feeling that LAX knows what he's talking about.

No it would count as a swap. If you use all your swaps many times you would be given more, we used to have unlimited swaps. I guess I'm having a problem with reading comprehension wasn't LAX saying come on lets move on and get a contract?If the TWU way of doing swaps is more liberal I'm all for waiting until hell freezes over until we get it.Watch out now some states a law where if you work over 40 no matter what it's overtime I'm simplifying this there are actually a million more variables from state to state

 

[WeAAsles]

No it would count as a swap. If you use all your swaps many times you would be given more, we used to have unlimited swaps. I guess I'm having a problem with reading comprehension wasn't LAX saying come on lets move on and get a contract?If the TWU way of doing swaps is more liberal I'm all for waiting until hell freezes over until we get it.Watch out now some states a law where if you work over 40 no matter what it's overtime I'm simplifying this there are actually a million more variables from state to state

It's too late Al. They already TA'd it.

"Many times"

So ok what you're saying it seems is if you have exhausted your contractual bank and management likes you or you're good at sucking up, they "might" give you more? That's how I'm understanding what you wrote?

Yes then currently our "policy" is far more liberal than your "language"

And it didn't sound to me like LAX was saying that at all.

 

[Albert]

It's too late Al. They already TA'd it.

"Many times"

So ok what you're saying it seems is if you have exhausted your contractual bank and management likes you or you're good at sucking up, they "might" give you more? That's how I'm understanding what you wrote?

Yes then currently our "policy" is far more liberal than your "language"

And it didn't sound to me like LAX was saying that at all.

I"m not going back to his post but I thought he was ranting about "lack of progress"Ok maybe I'm wrong. There is a simple solution to the swap article already approved, vote NO . Maybe I'll call Isom and ask him to schedule the flights to fit LAX's needs. I swear Weez you know I like you but you guys seem like a real bunch of Prima-donnas sometimes

 

[WeAAsles]

I"m not going back to his post but I thought he was ranting about "lack of progress"Ok maybe I'm wrong. There is a simple solution to the swap article already approved, vote NO . Maybe I'll call Isom and ask him to schedule the flights to fit LAX's needs. I swear Weez you know I like you but you guys seem like a real bunch of Prima-donnas sometimes

Al it's not about me on this one. For me I could care less about doing it your way. I only CS (Swap) off once every couple of months. This is my FT only job.

It's your further down the totem pole and commuters who are going to go haywire on this. Maybe you've never actually met or talked to a commuter in LGA but we have tons of them here and in DFW. Go back and read the example that LAX posted.

And tons of your lower down the wage scale totem pole guys have second jobs. Right now because of what they earn here it could even be there primary jobs. Sure being able to give away 2 days a week may work for them but it's not going to leave them much wiggle room to have a life if they can no longer mix and match the hours.

Look I could care less if you don't give a rats tail about them but I am going to tell you that the Swap Shift flexibility is so important to them that they absolutely will revolt on that JCBA. Probably just as much as many of your guys will revolt if you had to go with our medical plans.

Look at how you're reacting to the idea of having to rotate days off there. Now magnify that outrage by maybe 1000 guys or more. Trust me I'm NOT over exaggerating.

 

[Albert]

Al it's not about me on this one. For me I could care less about doing it your way. I only CS (Swap) off once every couple of months. This is my FT only job.

It's your further down the totem pole and commuters who are going to go haywire on this. Maybe you've never actually met or talked to a commuter in LGA but we have tons of them here and in DFW. Go back and read the example that LAX posted.

And tons of your lower down the wage scale totem pole guys have second jobs. Right now because of what they earn here it could even be there primary jobs. Sure being able to give away 2 days a week may work for them but it's not going to leave them much wiggle room to have a life if they can no longer mix and match the hours.

Look I could care less if you don't give a rats tail about them but I am going to tell you that the Swap Shift flexibility is so important to them that they absolutely will revolt on that JCBA. Probably just as much as many of your guys will revolt if you had to go with our medical plans.

Look at how you're reacting to the idea of having to rotate days off there. Now magnify that outrage by maybe 1000 guys or more. Trust me I'm NOT over exaggerating.

Fact is we will have your medical plan and we will be rotating days off. I too could care less about swaps Why would they settle for inferior policy does it cost the company anything? While I feel for the commuters and have known quite a few (LGA is where you would come to get full time in the 80s) I would not consider their plight when voting for a contract. incidentally we were very good to the commuters I doubt we would have been treated as well if we were newcomers to their city

 

[WeAAsles]

Hey NYer didn't you say something yesterday about Parker and his willingness to continue to leap ahead had we gained our raises much earlier? My between $26 to $27 scenario.

You specifically mentioned Flight Attendants.

Do you want to talk about Pilots too?

https://www.thestreet.com/story/138...-peers-will-ask-to-reopen-contract-talks.html

 

[WeAAsles]

Morning thought for the Forum Message board.

If eventually there do wind up being changes with a JCBA that each side sees items they don't care for or despise, I.E. The Swap Shift conversation, US Medical rates, and maybe a few work rule changes? How will that TA become assured to pass?

Today it should be reflected that we gained a 24% pay increase. Now to keep that raise will there be a requirement that we have to pass the JCBA that eventually sits on our desks (Maintenance also) or our rates will snap back to what we were getting before the deal was signed?

Personally if that happens I'd say it's a great way to assure passage and P. Rez just might see his 90%?

To add just a little more to the pie I'm guessing we'll see added to our wages another 2 to 4% possibly in response to one more Delta upcoming unannounced wage increase?

Then the final will be a 5 year deal with a 1 year early opener.

Thoughts?

 

[NYer]

Hey NYer didn't you say something yesterday about Parker and his willingness to continue to leap ahead had we gained our raises much earlier? My between $26 to $27 scenario.

You specifically mentioned Flight Attendants.

Do you want to talk about Pilots too?

https://www.thestreet.com/story/138...-peers-will-ask-to-reopen-contract-talks.html

LOL.

Don't believe I said he would "continue leap ahead." The fact is, during negotiations the flight attendants received more than they agreed to because other airlines were also in negotiations and went ahead of their TA.

The APA agreed to their deal in January 2015. Since then, SWA pilots received a deal in August 2016, while UA received a deal this past month...so there was a lapse of 19 months. Should they have waited?

 

[WeAAsles]

LOL.

Don't believe I said he would "continue leap ahead." The fact is, during negotiations the flight attendants received more than they agreed to because other airlines were also in negotiations and went ahead of their TA.

The APA agreed to their deal in January 2015. Since then, SWA pilots received a deal in August 2016, while UA received a deal this past month...so there was a lapse of 19 months. Should they have waited?

Ok well we know that AA still won't compare to SWA, UPS or FedEx so the question is were either Delta or UAL Pilots in negotiations when our Pilots agreed to their Binding Interest agreement? Why didn't they have a true up then like the APFA had?

My thought is say we had locked in before Delta gave out their 14% raises. Would those raises still been provided to their ramp personnel bringing them to the $28.64 they have right now? There is no way we would have secured $30.17 had this been done a year and a half ago. If my brain is firing right I think the 7% above was $26.54?

So I doubt Delta would have brought their ramp services cost up by over $2.00. In turn UAL would not have gone up to $29.27 and we then would not be at our rate today of $30.17.

Even if we had a true up in our contract against UAL.

You can thank Harry, Sito, (Alex) Others, Our Negotiators, and AA for securing us the wage raises. Now we're just waiting for the icing for the top of the cake.

Even though you may not like it. Everything on the timing came in pretty much perfect for our long term economic interests.

 

[WeAAsles]

And again I also have to give credit for our raises to the strong IAM organizing drive that I believe pushed Delta management to throw so much money at their unorganized work force to try to stem that drive.

I absolutely believe we rode the coattail of that.

 

[AANOTOK]

A quick reply to your "thoughts"...
If anything is tied to our wage adjustment other than the cross utilization agreement (not sure that has even been worked out yet) then each and every member of the NC should be fired and the Association dismantled for lying (again). As for the TA on the cs policy, most could live with either one, but I agree, it's the commuters it will hurt the most. You would hope a strong Scope clause could help with that.
And I'm sorry, but I have absolutely no doubt that the IAM and TWU have differences that they are trying to work out and AA can do nothing but twittle their thumbs while waiting. NY'er is right, there are issues that should have been solved long ago between the two unions that is slowing the negotiations down.
Finally, we get to hear the perspectives of two IAM members who are on the NC, would love to hear an opinion or two from a TWU rep who is in the room as well, in private of course.

 

[NYer]

Ok well we know that AA still won't compare to SWA, UPS or FedEx so the question is were either Delta or UAL Pilots in negotiations when our Pilots agreed to their Binding Interest agreement? Why didn't they have a true up then like the APFA had?

My thought is say we had locked in before Delta gave out their 14% raises. Would those raises still been provided to their ramp personnel bringing them to the $28.64 they have right now? There is no way we would have secured $30.17 had this been done a year and a half ago. If my brain is firing right I think the 7% above was $26.54?

So I doubt Delta would have brought their ramp services cost up by over $2.00. In turn UAL would not have gone up to $29.27 and we then would not be at our rate today of $30.17.

Even if we had a true up in our contract against UAL.

You can thank Harry, Sito, (Alex) Others, Our Negotiators, and AA for securing us the wage raises. Now we're just waiting for the icing for the top of the cake.

Even though you may not like it. Everything on the timing came in pretty much perfect for our long term economic interests.

Delta made that announcement in September 2015, barely 4 months after the NMB certified the Association. Do you actually believe if the Association was ready to start negotiations that June it would have been done by September?

Perfect? I don't believe those waiting to get home feel the same way. I don't believe those hoping to get a transfer closer to home feel the same way. I don't believe those under the Preferential Hiring agreement feel the same way. I don't believe those waiting for the past 4 years and hoping to get the gains they expect, feel the same way.