JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

A quick reply to your "thoughts"...
If anything is tied to our wage adjustment other than the cross utilization agreement (not sure that has even been worked out yet) then each and every member of the NC should be fired and the Association dismantled for lying (again). As for the TA on the cs policy, most could live with either one, but I agree, it's the commuters it will hurt the most. You would hope a strong Scope clause could help with that.
And I'm sorry, but I have absolutely no doubt that the IAM and TWU have differences that they are trying to work out and AA can do nothing but twittle their thumbs while waiting. NY'er is right, there are issues that should have been solved long ago between the two unions that is slowing the negotiations down.
Finally, we get to hear the perspectives of two IAM members who are on the NC, would love to hear an opinion or two from a TWU rep who is in the room as well, in private of course.

I'm not saying that there is or even would be a caveat like that in place but the question should be asked can the deal be a "contingent on" and tied to a ratification of a full JCBA? I mean this deal was done outside of the official process and just to play devils advocate shouldn't those wages be locked in with the entirety of any full deal? (Again just playing Devils advocate)

Without that alternate reality staring us in the face I'm just not so sure had we met when the IAM beckoned the ideological differences would have been settled?

Timeline of issues:

TWU negotiates with Parker leaving IAM in the wings.
IAM makes TWU wait till they get a standalone agreement.
IAM claims they'll discuss the issues the new TWU leaders have with the Association agreement.
TWU then supports IAM getting standalone agreement.
IAM reneges on discussing issues outside of legal remedies.
IAM says time to meet for negotiations prep.
TWU Local Presidents refuse in support of new TWU International President.
IAM point man attempts to do end run around that decision with direct letter to TWU Presidents saying "Since you're autonomous"

Then we sit and wait for NMB to certify the Association with a bunch of Drama mixed in to that.

Now from what I've heard Harry and Sito get along great with each other. They're both old school Union. But the question is have the lower rank leaders come to terms with the past?

NYer is a perfect example of an individual who hasn't gotten past it all since he's only brought it up all over Social Media hundreds of times and is still doing so to this day. It's almost my suspicion that he wants to keep bringing it up to cause or keep the friction going?

If so I sincerely hope that the negotiators on both sides of the table are not going to be manipulated by that possible agenda? It doesn't serve any of their or our best interests to continue to dredge up the muck.

There are bigger fish to fry out there. Namely good old fashioned Corporate Greed.

 

[WeAAsles]

Delta made that announcement in September 2015, barely 4 months after the NMB certified the Association. Do you actually believe if the Association was ready to start negotiations that June it would have been done by September?

Perfect? I don't believe those waiting to get home feel the same way. I don't believe those hoping to get a transfer closer to home feel the same way. I don't believe those under the Preferential Hiring agreement feel the same way. I don't believe those waiting for the past 4 years and hoping to get the gains they expect, feel the same way.

And I don't really believe you care about them anyway to tell you the truth. But I'm not inside that head of yours.

Or am I?

 

[WeAAsles]

Delta made that announcement in September 2015, barely 4 months after the NMB certified the Association. Do you actually believe if the Association was ready to start negotiations that June it would have been done by September?

Perfect? I don't believe those waiting to get home feel the same way. I don't believe those hoping to get a transfer closer to home feel the same way. I don't believe those under the Preferential Hiring agreement feel the same way. I don't believe those waiting for the past 4 years and hoping to get the gains they expect, feel the same way.

You conviently left out 9 months waiting for the IAM standalone and then another 9 months waiting for the NMB for a total of 18 extra months.

Let's say we took out the first 9 months when the TWU wanted to file and then taking out the possibility of the Peterson protest having some influence shorten the decision in half to say 4 months on the NMB?

Now redo your math from the time the Association could have filed and just add 4 months.

 

[NYer]

You conviently left out 9 months waiting for the IAM standalone and then another 9 months waiting for the NMB for a total of 18 extra months.

Let's say we took out the first 9 months when the TWU wanted to file and then taking out the possibility of the Peterson protest having some influence shorten the decision in half to say 4 months on the NMB?

Now redo your math from the time the Association could have filed and just add 4 months.

Huh? Now that's the great example of reaching. Whoa!

 

[WeAAsles]

Huh? Now that's the great example of reaching. Whoa!

TOTALLY not at all.

 

[bob@las-AA]

A quick reply to your "thoughts"...
If anything is tied to our wage adjustment other than the cross utilization agreement (not sure that has even been worked out yet) then each and every member of the NC should be fired and the Association dismantled for lying (again). As for the TA on the cs policy, most could live with either one, but I agree, it's the commuters it will hurt the most. You would hope a strong Scope clause could help with that.
And I'm sorry, but I have absolutely no doubt that the IAM and TWU have differences that they are trying to work out and AA can do nothing but twittle their thumbs while waiting. NY'er is right, there are issues that should have been solved long ago between the two unions that is slowing the negotiations down.
Finally, we get to hear the perspectives of two IAM members who are on the NC, would love to hear an opinion or two from a TWU rep who is in the room as well, in private of course.

AA I have made numerous request for someone to step up and give us an idea of how many stations the IAM has total. This has been unanswered for a long time. Not all of you know that the US side can look at our seniority list, all the while, us on the AA side can't view US side. At the end of the day, we would gain nothing anyways. But the most destructive tool the company has is the x-utilize, the LAS-DFW trips were all 73s md80 before August. Today the company has shifted that work to the US side by using airbuses on the US side thus thrusting the AA side to go below our scope of 20 flights per day. Of the 13 stations, US has a strong hold on 9 of the 13. Get the picture!

The company wants to change the:
1) RIF language.
2) Recall language.
3) Part-Time language.
4) They have x-utilize, too late for this one.

No more new jets are coming and the stock of only 50 MD80 left, just what do you think the will use to fill the eventual gap?

Envoy.

 

[robbedagain]

Bob I believe the company is still getting new 73s n Airbus thru end of this year. On another note PHX BWI flights formally US Airbus went to AA 738s. It's possible that in a lot of out cities such as bwi that w the switch of aircraft from LUS to LAA is way of getting rid of catering. So if u look at LAS- DUE see if there is similarity

 

[P. REZ]

A quick reply to your "thoughts"...
If anything is tied to our wage adjustment other than the cross utilization agreement (not sure that has even been worked out yet) then each and every member of the NC should be fired and the Association dismantled for lying (again). As for the TA on the cs policy, most could live with either one, but I agree, it's the commuters it will hurt the most. You would hope a strong Scope clause could help with that.
And I'm sorry, but I have absolutely no doubt that the IAM and TWU have differences that they are trying to work out and AA can do nothing but twittle their thumbs while waiting. NY'er is right, there are issues that should have been solved long ago between the two unions that is slowing the negotiations down.
Finally, we get to hear the perspectives of two IAM members who are on the NC, would love to hear an opinion or two from a TWU rep who is in the room as well, in private of course.

I will state this again, of course there are disagreements in the room, but it isn't TWU vs. IAM. We vote all the time and it has never been 6-6. When the Company passes us an Article, we all pretty much say, wtf, they passed another pos. The Company wants to give top pay and substandard everything else. Have we made progress on the Articles being passed back and forth, absolutely!! I would be surprised to hear anyone in that room state that anyone was holding things up or not working together.

P. Rez

 

[WeAAsles]

I will state this again, of course there are disagreements in the room, but it isn't TWU vs. IAM. We vote all the time and it has never been 6-6. When the Company passes us an Article, we all pretty much say, wtf, they passed another pos. The Company wants to give top pay and substandard everything else. Have we made progress on the Articles being passed back and forth, absolutely!! I would be surprised to hear anyone in that room state that anyone was holding things up or not working together.

P. Rez

Rez when we ultimately get to read that final JCBA am I going to mostly see an ideological slant towards one groups way of doing things over the other? Or am I going to read a nice balance between both with maybe a few new items added in?

In reading the two current agreements I do read some fundamental differences that may have to do with the philosophy of one side over the other.

Are you guys sitting across from each other or intermingling. Any private sidebars excluding one group over the other? Do you eat together? Do you drink together?

When this is all over are any of you going to be playing golf with each other or maybe fly in to catch a ballgame in each other's cities?

And if the company hands you a POS and all 12 of you are in firm agreement that they can piss off, that's when I'm doing my biggest smiling routine.

 

[AANOTOK]

I'm thinking they have someone filming each session and eventually when all is said and done either a tape will be released or involuntarily leaked to either PBS or maybe even HBO. Kinda of like the NFL's "Hard Knocks". Who knows, the strawing sucking fool from TMZ may already own the rights.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm thinking they have someone filming each session and eventually when all is said and done either a tape will be released or involuntarily leaked to either PBS or maybe even HBO. Kinda of like the NFL's "Hard Knocks". Who knows, the strawing sucking fool from TMZ may already own the rights.

Lol. I don't think anything needs to go that far. I'm sure these are all very honorable Union brothers and their word is more than good enough for me.

 

[AANOTOK]

Check out Doug in the Tulsa Town Hall...he is telling you that you can kiss your prefund match bye bye!

 

[WeAAsles]

Check out Doug in the Tulsa Town Hall...he is telling you that you can kiss your prefund match bye bye!

Talk about ironic. I just watched that about 30 minutes ago. Maybe NYer would like to comment since he was one of the negotiators in the room who accepted that language.

Well I guess I'm kissing around $6500.00 goodbye? How about you AANOTOK?

 

[AANOTOK]

A safe guess would be about $8000. And I use to hear all the time people say, they can't use my money to subsidize the retirees, it's in my name/account. Well, Dougie just told you that's exactly what it will be used for.

 

[WeAAsles]

A safe guess would be about $8000. And I use to hear all the time people say, they can't use my money to subsidize the retirees, it's in my name/account. Well, Dougie just told you that's exactly what it will be used for.

It's like one of those commercials "Sponsor a needy Retiree"

And Doug (Or NYer) look nothing like that old white guy on TV with the white beard.