JetBlue pilots choose ALPA

Discussion in 'jetBlue' started by WorldTraveler, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    Sorry bout that JB employees and fans, but WT is well known for taking threads off topic.
    Getting back to topic;  I think JB pilots did the right move, I am pretty positive the F/A's will follow suit, and the mechanics better hope they do to.  It is obvious there is a possibility of consolidation at JB.  Maybe JB figured out they have to combine in order to survive the long haul, maybe they see the competitors are much more harder to compete with.  And there are a number of small to medium airlines out there that would make good hook ups.  Good luck to all.  You will be much better off being represented by union during consolidations, just look back at history,  pilots are not dumb, they know something and it's time for the other work groups to be pro-active, don't just sit there and watch it all play out, get involved and gain control of the future outcome...
     
  2. WorldTraveler

    WorldTraveler Corn Field

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    trader asked a valid question which you felt a need to respond to.

    I too believe that B6 pilots have done the right thing for themselves and their careers but it will have implications for the company's ability to retain its well below average cost structure compared to legacies and even WN.

    B6 is growing up and, like WN, that maturity is adding costs which reduces their competitive advantage relative to their legacy peers.
     
  3. eolesen

    eolesen Veteran

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    Some lost their seats, but gained long-term stability. That's the same thing the B6 pilots would seek in any merger.
     
  4. WorldTraveler

    WorldTraveler Corn Field

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    long term, there is no doubt that WN is both a higher paying and likely more stable company.

    But for FL captains that might spend five or ten years back as FOs, the benefits from the merger might be a lot less tangible.

    and the real point is that precisely because FL was so much smaller than WN, the labor integration was real easy.... submit and adapt to everything WN and become subservient to us.

    it isn't a given that the same thing would happen if there was a merger involving B6, esp. if it was another ALPA carrier.
     
  5. eolesen

    eolesen Veteran

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    Depends on the merger partner. The most likely candidates for a merger mentioned in conjunction with B6 are NK, F9, and VX. I'd think the B6 pilots would do fairly well in a merger any of those.
     
  6. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    WT, If you do not already know, JB's cost are higher than SWA's. Check out the latest charts...
     
  7. WorldTraveler

    WorldTraveler Corn Field

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    no B6 is not a higher CASM carrier than WN.

    B6 reported a ex-fuel, profit sharing, and specials CASM of 8.10 while WN's was 8.50 on the same basis.

    The only large carrier that beat B6 was AS; WN is the highest CASM of the low fare carriers.

    I don't know what charts you are looking at but they aren't based on the most recent quarter's numbers which showed that B6 took a pretty good sized jump.

    Your point does validate that B6 is becoming less and less of the low cost maverick that is able to march into new markets and take share without a fight.

    The low fare carriers are simply not driving the industry like they once did; if DL can set up a domestic hub operation in AS' backyard as large as it is doing when AS is the lowest CASM large airline, it doesn't say much about the rest of the "low cost" segment's ability to push back on legacy carriers anymore.

    And the relevance of cost is who might be a potential merger partner; but the most sure protection in a merger for B6 pilots is if there is a merger with another ALPA carrier and even then there is no assurance it will be flawless.

    But there have still been mergers such as WN/FL that have involved mergers between different pilot unions that have resulted in significant loss of relative seniority; the whole goat rodeo at US/HP is unlikely to get any better throwing yet one more union in for AA's pilots.

    mergers are messy. period. mergers involving pilots are even messier because of the equipment, seats, and seniority involved. mergers involving pilots and different unions or no union at all are by far the messiest.

    B6 pilots helped to minimize the impact on their careers. The best thing they could hope for is to remain independent with more and more internal growth but that will be increasingly hard to do with the LCCs themselves bumping into each other looking for growth while also trying to battle the legacies.

    The chances are high that there will be mergers in the low cost carrier segment. B6 pilots are taking the lose-less strategy they could have employed even after the company threw them a large pay raise without a union.
     
  8. Bob Owens

    Bob Owens Veteran

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    I thought you didn't work for an airline? So whats this "we" stuff? 
     
     
    I think the Pilots of Jet Blue expect that they will need a union for when one of the top four buys them. AA is getting 500 new planes to put against Jet Blues 200 planes that are 10 years old. AA which had been retreating in certain markets such as SJU and BOS, is on the attack, an attack that could prove lethal for JB. Pilots see the writing on the wall, JB is the next carrier to be absorbed and in a merger you better have a Union or you will be stapled to the one that does, and as WT pointed out even Delta has a union. 
     
    I think WN would be the one to buy JB to get more of a big market presence. It would also bring the fleet sizes of the top four closer together. A much larger WN would throw some real competition back into the industry. Any other combination would just make a slightly bigger annoyance for the big three, but no real competition. 
     
    The Flight attendants are signing TWU cards, its a good move for them as well. The TWU has done a good job with the SWA flight attendants and have a few others such as Virgin, Allegient etc either in or in process. TWU already represents the SWA flight attendants so dovetail is pretty much guaranteed if they merge. 
     
    Not sure but I think several Unions are discussing a move for the fleet service guys. Again TWU already represents the Fleet workers at WN. TWU would be a good move for them as well. 
     
    Have not heard anything about the mechanics. Bad move on their part, because when a merger comes, and it will, they will get stapled. Many in Jet Blue are mechanics who left carriers such as AA and had a bitter experience with Unions.  But then again if the merger is with WN being stapled to the second best paying contract in the industry isn't that bad of a deal. 
     
  9. WorldTraveler

    WorldTraveler Corn Field

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    won't it be interesting when the legacy carriers fight back and say that WN plus any other carrier will have a larger position in some of the top markets in the country.

    You do realize that WN now is the #2 airline at DCA based on seats - just slightly ahead of DL. WN and B6 dominate Florida.

    States and cities are no more likely to roll over and permit low fare carriers to combine to an enormous size any more than they would have allowed legacy carriers to do so.

    Dominating any market is not in the best interest of consumers.
     
  10. 700UW

    700UW Corn Field

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  11. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    Good news 700. Good luck to all the JB pilots and nego comte...
     
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  12. WorldTraveler

    WorldTraveler Corn Field

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    700 has nothing to do with ALPA or JetBlue.

    of course he has nothing do with any airline on here but that hasn't stopped him from sticking his nose into their business.

    B6 mgmt. has to deal with unionized pilots because B6 mgmt. tried to play cheap with its employees at a time when the supply of pilots was tightening. It is basic economics.

    B6' costs will go up and its pilots will see better economic terms.

    if B6' new mgmt. is smart, they will figure out that they need to make sure their other employee groups' compensation is at least average or above.
     
  13. robbedagain

    robbedagain Veteran

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    you mean just like how you never stop sticking your nose and your pro dl bs garbage into every gosh darn thread    nowonder some of us have you on ignore   you seriously need big time professional help dude   youre a FORMER REVENUE MGMT clown who took the dough and ran as far as the eye can see  and youre so seriously stuck up delta tail its pretty dam sad    At least 700 has far more knowledge and has far more experience when it comes to unions etc etc than you will ever know in your entire life tiome.
     
    As for the B6 pilots I hope they get the best deal they possibly can  Good luck to them
     
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  14. WorldTraveler

    WorldTraveler Corn Field

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    I have a known and declared financial interest in DL.

    700 by his own admission doesn't.

    I also don't try to tell any other airlines what the solution to their labor issues are. I do point out the reality of the labor situation in the industry, esp WRT economic issues. 700 has no problem sticking his nose in other people's and other airline's labor related issues as well as a whole lot that doesn't even belong on the board at all.

    you and I do agree that the B6 pilots get the best deal possible.

    I am sorry that b6 mgmt. wasn't smart enough to pay the pilots well enough the first time but since they didn't they now have to deal with a union.
     
  15. Kev3188

    Kev3188 Veteran

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    Neither do you. Who cares?

    Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I saw a B6 employee post on here.
     
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