Jetblue To Reconsider E190 Order

ISP

Senior
Apr 3, 2003
321
1
JetBlue's E190 division has gotten off to a less than stellar start.

The JFK-BOS flights are full, but all of them are chronically late, mostly due to MX issues. On day one, things got so bad that A320's were subbed on the route. In addition, other routes that were supposed to be E190 (BOS-PBI, for example), have been switched to A320.

Executive brass has now decided to take delivery of only the first 7 planes on order, and reevaluate the rest of the order based on the reliability of these aircraft. Speaking with E190 certified MX techs, I have been told things such as "the wiring on these planes is the worst I've ever seen. Craftsmanship is horrible." Embrarer now has several workers from Brazil stationed at T-6 JFK 24 hours a day for support.

Company brass also has conceded that the A/C should have been initially used on a "not new" route, such as JFK-BUF. By introducing the aircraft on a new "Shuttle" type of route, they have already alienated business customers who will not return over the course of 3 days. Comments such as "US Airways Shuttle is never late" are consistently heard throughout the terminal.

Regards,
ISP
 
Other routes that were supposed to be E190 (BOS-PBI, for example), have been switched to A320.

Due to the fact that Embraer has been slow in delivery. There are no longer enough planes to do that route at first.

Executive brass has now decided to take delivery of only the first 7 planes on order, and reevaluate the rest of the order based on the reliability of these aircraft.

Source?

Speaking with E190 certified MX techs, I have been told things such as "the wiring on these planes is the worst I've ever seen. Craftsmanship is horrible." Embrarer now has several workers from Brazil stationed at T-6 JFK 24 hours a day for support.

Are you a reporter, or have you just been talking over the fence? Or neither? Source?

Company brass also has conceded that the A/C should have been initially used on a "not new" route, such as JFK-BUF.

Source?

By introducing the aircraft on a new "Shuttle" type of route, they have already alienated business customers who will not return over the course of 3 days. Comments such as "US Airways Shuttle is never late" are consistently heard throughout the terminal.

Source? Did you speak to them in an official capacity or were just hanging around listening to grumbling? Hang around any boarding lounge anywhere, on any airline, any time there's any kind of disruption, and you'll hear the same thing.

It's hard to believe that JetBlue is considering pulling the plug after four days of operations. I gotta throw the BS flag here.
 
ISP,

While there have been some problems your post is not entirely truthful. The seven airplane rumor was debunked by management and isn't true. There was a question as to wether or not EMB would be able to meet the production schedule.

The first day of operations were a bit rough but so far NOT one flight has been cancelled. Yesterday the operation went much much better with only one flight operated by a 320 that had to be repositioned anyway.

So far there are NO plans to delay deliveries whatsoever. In fact many folks that were involved with 170 at U have said the 190 launch has been much smoother. As the expression goes "shiny airplane broken airplane."
 
Blue Dude,
Just talk with anyone that works the ramp in BOS. Ask them about the 190's. Major problems.
 
Blue Dude,
Just talk with anyone that works the ramp in BOS. Ask them about the 190's. Major problems.

Well Atlantic the flights today have been about 90% on time. The latest flight arrived 19 minutes late. All the 190's are operational with one in Live TV having arrived from Brazil just days ago. No offense to the ramp guys but I wonder how many have been through the first days of operation for a brand new aircraft type.
 
Blue Dude,
Just talk with anyone that works the ramp in BOS. Ask them about the 190's. Major problems.

I have no doubt there have been operational issues with the E190 these past few days. What I question is the characterization of the entire program being in jeopardy. A few days of teething problems and this guy (ISP) says that we're ready to throw in the towel? I don't believe a word of it.
 
we had similar problems with e170 here at airways when we got it. you will always have kinks to work out when a new fleet type arrives. i am sure the blue guys can handle it. goodluck jetBlue!!
 
we had similar problems with e170 here at airways when we got it. you will always have kinks to work out when a new fleet type arrives. i am sure the blue guys can handle it. goodluck jetBlue!!

How true and thank you ETOPS. So far today all aircraft are in service and flights departing and arriving within 15 minutes of schedule.
 
All:

Most of the problem is twofold. First, the block times that the company published as a schedule are inadequate. They have made inroads on upping the block time.

Second, the turn times were shortened to 30 minutes on average. This was done to up the utilization, and it was based on a 40 minute turn for a 156 seat aircraft, so you can turn a 100 seat one in 30 mins.......well, maybe on paper....

so the combination of say, block time overage of even 5 minutes and then a 35 minute turn and we are at least 10 mins late in BOS and then the cycle continues. Add a maintenance writeup and maintenance action and you are even later.

Kudos to the guys making it happen.

I usually like ISP's posts, but the BS flag is at full staff here. No way JB is thinking of reconsidering the order. They are way past the point of no return on that.

Boomer
 
I usually like ISP's posts, but the BS flag is at full staff here. No way JB is thinking of reconsidering the order. They are way past the point of no return on that.

No, not really. NOW is the time to make a decision. If the jet is a peice of Jungle Junk, then would you want to rethink the strategy now with under ten on the property, or would you rather take the full order and trust that the Brazilians will make everything right? You've got leverage now, you won't after the check for the last jet is cashed. I wouldn't expect your management to even hint to you that it is being dropped if they are considering it. People go to jail for leaking that type of information. Likewise, let's pretend they were going to dump the jet unless the Brazilians made some big changes to the quality control or made some deals WRT mx. Now they get those desired changes and decide to keep it. Would you want it public knowledge that you think a large part of your fleet was a royal, undependable POS? And that you kept it because they lowered the price or gave you free mx? That'd be good PR..... :huh: . Make all the excuses you'd like. Excuses don't get you to the meeting on time. Blue chose to buy an unproven third world built jetliner and to bet your job on it's success. Should the Passengers just accept the excuses? Should they just "understand"?


Personally, I hope the jet fails miserably for the simply fact that it blurs the mainline/RJ line and takes advantage of that blurring in all the wrong ways (mainline jet at RJ rates), and will undoubtedly destroy 737 and A319/320 payrates. I'm sure Boeing would have kept the 717 line open with enough interest. Blue decided to get a new jet on the cheap. They should pay the P.R. cost of it's "teething" problems. BTW Boomer, upping the block times mean they'd have to pay the crew more to fly less. We wouldn't want that to happen, and there goes those cost numbers they used to justify the jet...
 
Busdrvr:

You hope the jet fails miserably because the jet makes the armada of 50 seaters that UAL and others has feeding the mainline obsolete.......

Every new type has issues....this is no different. This aircraft was purchased for several reasons. The 717 is a good airframe, but if you were going to go with it, you might as well buy the 318. Didn't make sense because it weighs more than the 190...not to mention that JB did away with the center seat which is a big customer comfort plus. I think the 318/319 would have been a better deal in the long run but I don't get to make those decisions.

The block time issue is a simple scheduling problem. The flight times are often in the 35-45 minute range. Add a 15 minute taxi out....about average for BOS and a 10 minute taxi in and you have 1 hour 10 mins. block.....

Now, add deicing, low cigs/vis., or a occupied gate and with a 10 minute wait and 30 mins. of turn, you have a late operation. This is easy to fix. They are just trying to squeeze the orange a little too hard right now. Anyone in the business knows that if the block times are averaging 5-10 mins. more than you have scheduled, then you will run late. Especially with a shuttle type operation.

I don't know where you have been, but the 319/320 and 737 rates sans LUV are destroyed......it will take years if ever to recover. That is a fact that needs to be accepted.

Boomer
 
Sure can...
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She's cute! A little small in the can, but I like the slim ones :p