July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[prechilill]

Talked to several AA friends. According to them, any merger deal involving US will have an iron clad pre-nup attached. And no, it won't be DOH.

I'm going to help you eastholios here as I'm feeling very generous tonight.

In Hummel's latest message he states:

Initially US Airways CEO Doug Parker visited USAPA headquarters and said that he didn’t need anything from the pilots to complete a merger with American. Hearing that, we quietly devised an aggressive strategy to ensure that our pilots were not left behind. This strategy and process was ultimately developed by YOU – the membership...

APA is in full control of this inevitable merger- the East is about to get a little taste of their own medicine and some are going to probably go postal...
Hmmm. Karma...
APA has NEVER merged with Date of Hire, why they would start now and screw themselves by matching their 767 captains with east 320 f/o's is illogical- only an east pilot could contrive such nonsense (and believe it as well).

Have had multiple APA pilots on the jumpseat, all have stated DOH is a no go. Give it up easties, you lost- your stupid crusade has gone nowhere in four years and never will amount to anything, especially with the APA.

 

[luvn737s]

East/APA goes straight DOH, with 7 year hard fences. East attrition takes care of the details. Done deal.West goes to M/B against the combined mega group, with no widebodes even on order.Off topic, but would not want to be a West F/A right now.Watch and learn. Parker and Kirby may not rule, and there will be at least one more player. Seniority fights will be he joke of industry. Better to settle ahead. DOH will rule out of necessity.Greeter

Did someone tell you that tape worm was a fortune cookie?

 

[cleardirect]

East/APA goes straight DOH, with 7 year hard fences. East attrition takes care of the details. Done deal.West goes to M/B against the combined mega group, with no widebodes even on order.Off topic, but would not want to be a West F/A right now.Watch and learn. Parker and Kirby may not rule, and there will be at least one more player. Seniority fights will be he joke of industry. Better to settle ahead. DOH will rule out of necessity.Greeter

You are going to have to explain how your theory works.

First usapa is the bargaining agent for ALL us airways pilots. Second usapa represents ALL us airways pilots, we have a single certificate so yes the west does have WB. The WB belong to us airways not the east pilots. How does usapa negotiate for some pilots and not others? Also I am not sure that the new hires are going to like being placed junior to all of those AA furloughed pilots by DOH.

Explain why the APA would agree to DOH when it places 80% of the east senior to AA captains? The APA has never used DOH. If it is arbitrated how can usapa that represents ALL us airways pilots but only arbitrate for certain pilots? Can they also negotiate a separate seniority for CLT pilots vs. PHL pilots? A different seniority deal for WB pilots vs. NB pilots? IF they agree to DOH the TWA guys are going to want their DOH. Using the east logic that APA won’t mind handing over their careers for the next 5 years to the older guys why not? Are you willing to agree to a rearrangement of the APA list?

Are these base fences or equipment fences? What do you mean by the east attrition will take care of the details? Do you really believe that you are going to get to lock yourselves in CLT, PHL and DCA, get a new contract but have your own little private bases? In a merger do you think that you are going to cruise happily along the same size or growing in a protected base? Why would management continue to send a WB to Europe from PHL when they already have one going from JFK? Who wants to go to CLT and international when MIA has so many more flights? Yep the attrition that will take care of the details is the attrition of flying from those bases.

Not sure what you are talking about the F/A. More cryptic FUD.

As far as another player. You guys have made sure that is not going to happen. You guys screaming CoC has blocked anyone else from getting involved. Either Parker is in charge or there is no deal.

Yes the seniority fight that the east pilots chose to start is a joke of the industry. It is better to settle ahead. That is what the west wanted to do but you guys insisted on demanding everything. We tried to negotiate but you guys insisted on everything. We finally went to arbitration and guess what, even after the arbitrator told you were not getting everything you still demanded everything. Demand DOH again and you will end up with the same result except this time you will be a small minority with no options. Try and learn for your mistakes this time.

 

[nevergiveup]

You are going to have to explain how your theory works.

First usapa is the bargaining agent for ALL us airways pilots. Second usapa represents ALL us airways pilots, we have a single certificate so yes the west does have WB. The WB belong to us airways not the east pilots. How does usapa negotiate for some pilots and not others? Also I am not sure that the new hires are going to like being placed junior to all of those AA furloughed pilots by DOH.

Explain why the APA would agree to DOH when it places 80% of the east senior to AA captains? The APA has never used DOH. If it is arbitrated how can usapa that represents ALL us airways pilots but only arbitrate for certain pilots? Can they also negotiate a separate seniority for CLT pilots vs. PHL pilots? A different seniority deal for WB pilots vs. NB pilots? IF they agree to DOH the TWA guys are going to want their DOH. Using the east logic that APA won’t mind handing over their careers for the next 5 years to the older guys why not? Are you willing to agree to a rearrangement of the APA list?

Are these base fences or equipment fences? What do you mean by the east attrition will take care of the details? Do you really believe that you are going to get to lock yourselves in CLT, PHL and DCA, get a new contract but have your own little private bases? In a merger do you think that you are going to cruise happily along the same size or growing in a protected base? Why would management continue to send a WB to Europe from PHL when they already have one going from JFK? Who wants to go to CLT and international when MIA has so many more flights? Yep the attrition that will take care of the details is the attrition of flying from those bases.

Not sure what you are talking about the F/A. More cryptic FUD.

As far as another player. You guys have made sure that is not going to happen. You guys screaming CoC has blocked anyone else from getting involved. Either Parker is in charge or there is no deal.

Yes the seniority fight that the east pilots chose to start is a joke of the industry. It is better to settle ahead. That is what the west wanted to do but you guys insisted on demanding everything. We tried to negotiate but you guys insisted on everything. We finally went to arbitration and guess what, even after the arbitrator told you were not getting everything you still demanded everything. Demand DOH again and you will end up with the same result except this time you will be a small minority with no options. Try and learn for your mistakes this time.

DOH with fences and you lose nothing. East loses nothing. APA loses nothing.

 

[cleardirect]

DOH with fences and you lose nothing. East loses nothing. APA loses nothing.

What kind of fences? How do you get DOH?

We lose the Nicolau and the last 7 years.

I think the APA will disagree with you that they lose nothing.

On the other hand DOH the east gains which means the rest of us lose. Have you east guys learned nothing the last 7 years?

 

[Move2CLT]

DOH with fences and you lose nothing. East loses nothing. APA loses nothing.

Ummmmmm, no.

Next.

 

[nevergiveup]

What kind of fences? How do you get DOH?

We lose the Nicolau and the last 7 years.

I think the APA will disagree with you that they lose nothing.

On the other hand DOH the east gains which means the rest of us lose. Have you east guys learned nothing the last 7 years?

We learned you want what was not yours. How about relitive position with permanant fences? Wait, we tried that with temp. fences and you said no. The east doesn't gain. You are so silly!

 

[cleardirect]

We learned you want what was not yours. How about relitive position with permanant fences? Wait, we tried that with temp. fences and you said no. The east doesn't gain. You are so silly!

What is the difference between permanent fences and never merging? Think for a minute. Does Parker want to run two or three separate ops forever?

You only tried fences AFTER the Nicolau. The only fences you guys are going to get might be equipment fences between AA and LCC not between east and west.

You guys are just going to have to accept that there was a merger. Just because Parker has given you all the benefits of this merger so far does not mean that you will continue that forever.

 

[A320 Driver]

Ummmmmm, no.

Next.

I guess the NIC with fences is also out of the question.

Driver...

 

[nic4us]

Did Junebug and Nic4 take the East recall?

Why on earth would anybody wish to go east now with an AMR merger pending?

JFK, MIA and focus city CLT will be the east coast hubs...ORD, DFW and focus city STL will be the midwest hubs...and LAX, SFO and focus city PHX will be west coast hubs.

You see PHL anywhere on that list? Also, say goodbye to the 190s and the 330 fleet.

A 1999 hire scab such as yourself should be pretty concerned about a couple of facts.

Fact 1...The Nic is the only system seniority list for all LCC pilots.

Fact 2.. usapa has a DFR to represent all LCC pilots.

Fact 3..the APA does not give a rats rear how much attrition the LCC pilots have when a couple thousand pilot jobs are going to be on the line.

Fact 4...nobody likes a scab.


Have a great day junior.

 

[nic4us]

We learned you want what was not yours. How about relitive position with permanant fences? Wait, we tried that with temp. fences and you said no. The east doesn't gain. You are so silly!

Are you for real???

Lets make something perfectly clear here.

Whether you think it is fair or not....the Nic is ours...and yes we want it.

The only group stealing what is not theirs is the scabs at usapa and the east pilots who voted for and formed the scab union to take what was not theirs.


Now run along and cry to somebody else whose career and family has not been affected by the scabs at usapa.

 

[eastcoast]

East/APA goes straight DOH, with 7 year hard fences. East attrition takes care of the details. Done deal.West goes to M/B against the combined mega group, with no widebodes even on order. DOH will rule out of necessity.Greeter

Quite a fertile imagination you have there. Stick to that fantasy if it helps you sleep at night. One thing is for sure, this whole mess is so convoluted that NO ONE can predict the exact outcome. Also, we will not be in the driver's seat. We gave that ability up during the arbitration.

Bankruptcy or not, APA will get whatever makes them happy, because Horton knows that nothing will work successfully without them. They are not known as "Sky Nazis" for nothing. They know how to put up a (legal) unified fight.

Sit back, strap in, and enjoy the ride everyone.

 

[Move2CLT]

I guess the NIC with fences is also out of the question.

Driver...

I guess anything with fences is out of the question.

Negs between us ended long ago.

Move...

 

[eastcoast]

DOH with fences and you lose nothing. East loses nothing. APA loses nothing.

Isn't that what they told the TWA pilots about STL? Once STL became a shadow of it's former self, pilots forced to bid out went to the bottom. Ask them how good a deal that fence was.

 

[Move2CLT]

Sit back, strap in, and enjoy the ride everyone.

There it is.

Someone gets it.