More Cuts at MEM

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eolesen said:
You incite people, and seem to enjoy it. That's called a "wind up artist" and frankly, why the forum owners allow it to continue unchecked is boggling.
My guess is that his tantrums and outrageous conduct help drive eyeballs and clicks, which this site probably needs more than anything.   This site has many thousands of registered usernames yet only a few regular posters.    Have no idea whether it's financially self-supporting or whether it's a money-loser.    One thing's for sure, however, and that is that airlineforums.com is no airliners.net in terms of activity.   That site certainly didn't "need" WT, and it jettisoned him.     
 
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Invest in a good psychiatrist, you certainly need it.
 
except I can figure out how to color between the lines - it is others that have repeatedly had to have their posts pulled for any number of reasons for violating the terms of service.

You and others can't really walk away and ignore me including with the post voting system.

I am in control as much as it hates you to admit it.

Those who claim they ignore me but then keep coming back are the ones who need the shrink, not me.


I am happy and well-adjusted - and sure enjoy my visits to this board.
 
My guess is that his tantrums and outrageous conduct help drive eyeballs and clicks, which this site probably needs more than anything.   This site has many thousands of registered usernames yet only a few regular posters.    Have no idea whether it's financially self-supporting or whether it's a money-loser.    One thing's for sure, however, and that is that airlineforums.com is no airliners.net in terms of activity.   That site certainly didn't "need" WT, and it jettisoned him.
well, yes, this site thrives on friction and conflict. The entire site is based on one union activist arguing that they can do a better job representing one group than they other.

I just happen to use business issues as my realm of discussion.

I also use publicly available facts - at these for those who now how to read them - as my platform.

Some people can't stand that type of factually based analysis of the industry.

I don't write what I write to make ANYONE feel warm and fuzzy inside.

meanwhile, DL's "cuts" consist of an upgrade to seats with a loss of two nonstop destinations.

it would be too much for most people to admit that.
 
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Kev has got it.

Kev also doesn't make a production about my presence here.

He is absolutely right... I get under people's skin because they get worked up about what I say.

others just shrug it off or really ignore me.

I couldn't exist on this board if I was really ignored and no one reacted to what I said.

When people have to add ONE MORE POST to a thread in order to either slam me, vote down the post, or keep me from getting the last word, I am in control. Every post that focuses on anything other than the topic at hand proves that I control the conversation and I have a presence on this board that some people cannot ignore.

IN the meantime, DL's seats at MEM will be growing.
 
I'll let the group guess who said it, back on April 17, 2008 ...
 
DL will retain CVG and MEM as hubs because -
 
1. it is politically necessary to do so. Politics doesn't run out a day after the deal is signed. Politicians will be watching for a whole long time. Do you really want to psh off Washington when you know closing hubs is their number one fear?
 
2. there are LOCAL markets that are worth defending. Dismantling the hubs invites the LFCs to come in - it's been shown to be true time and time again. Retaining the hub in order to defend the local market is highly justifiable.
 
3. CVG and MEM are tiny hubs as it is - and they could still be smaller if DL uses 319s as the only domestic airplane and 757s to Europe (767 for MEM).
 
4. CVG and MEM are low cost hubs. Keeping them open doesn't add a whole lot more capacity to the system and doesn't reduce DL's costs significantly by closing them. Remember DL and NW on a stage length adjusted basis are the lowest cost US network airlines. They have room to maintain certain inefficiencies in order to accomplish other purposes - like defend local markets and keep politicians happy and is relatively easy to do with network teams that know how to build networks which DL and NW both do very well.
 
If you persist in pushing your assertions, then send me a credit card number that I can use to treat myself to a nice steak dinner when you are proven wrong. (I love Ruth's Chris BTW)
 
(emphasis mine)
 
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nice find.


and since that time, fuel cost increased dramatically.

perhaps you can tell us what the price of jet fuel was at the time.

DL's merger is the only one of the megamergers that was announced BEFORE the norm for fuel became close to $3/gal.

Yes, my statements are not accurate within that reality.

DL has maintained its approximate share of the local market, esp. in CVG. MEM might be harder to defend the local market.

DL also operates the lowest percentage of its domestic network on RJs of any of the big 3 and by far the smallest percentage on small RJs.

It is a given that trend will spread to AA and UA; there will be network changes at both carriers as a result.

you can let me know which hubs you see being downsized as those 50 seaters come out of the network. There will not be a one for one upgrade of 50 seat flying to large RJ or mainline flying.
 
eolesen said:
Hardly shocking. To build up SEA, the shells had to come from somewhere.
1x CR9 and 1x ERJ flight is nothing. This is all about pulling down 50 seat flying. 
 
now the 321/739 even 717 capacity coming in is what is giving the wiggle rumor for the SEA flying. 
 
WorldTraveler said:
downsizing hubs doesn't work unless there is a significant local market on the segments that are retained. MEM does not have it.
CVG does.

Less of providing shells for SEA, many of the MEM cuts are because CRJs are leaving the system. SkyWest said that ExpressJet predominantly will lose about 150 aircraft over the next 18 months.

accuracy requires including this from the article which defies the definition of "slashing":

"Delta will be adding two Memphis flights to the airline's global hub in Atlanta.

“Clearly, they're trying to push more people through Atlanta,” said Brockman.

"While Delta is eliminating some flights, the number of available seats on Delta flights will actually increase, because the airline will be adding larger flights to its fleet."
Sounds more like its going to be ERJs (all of them that aren't XRs) flying for UAL. 
 
On the Delta side EV/OO is going to basically be the only 50 seat operator left. Though 9E is saying they are going to keep ~30 around now
 
robbedagain said:
regardless of what his comments are  the fact is DL folks are losing their jobs and Im quite sure a DL cheerleader will be along the way in saying how wonderful it is for DL and horrendous for all other airlines..  plain n  simple     
Who is losing there job? 
 
FWAAA said:
While generally true, MEM-DEN is flown with a CR9, which aren't leaving.    MEM-AUS is flown with an ERJ145, which are among the small jets making their early departure.      
The one flight a day still wont fund any SEA flying. 
 
metopower said:
Anyone know how many Delta employees were eliminated today with this down sizing? Or is this just another schedule change .A no furlough clause is worthless. Look at your airline history it's littered with the paper of those contracts. Good luck with that and I hope it doesn't happen. Just keep up with your saving just in case.
haven't heard of any. I don't know of two flights getting cut ever caused change. 
 
robbedagain said:
Meto. Is the 717 cockpit similar to the md80/90 series? Sorry for off track
Not really. 717 is glass and is basically a M11 with a Boeing twist. 
 
eolesen said:
IIRC, Boeing made a bunch of major system design changes, so it's not the same as the MD95 it started out life as, and doesn't have an out of the box common rating. I believe SV retrofitted their MD90's to be common with the B717, but it wasn't a cheap undertaking. Required upgrading all the cockpit instrumentation...
Its closer to the MD11. Glass up front. The SV 90s have a MD11 cockpit, which was an option from MDC. Delta didn't take it because they wanted the same cockpit as the 88s. 
 
Of course all this is(was....maybe) going to change once the contractors Delta has hired start doing cockpit mods at the Delta hangars on the 88/90 fleets. 
 
WorldTraveler said:
no, you missed that DL has done that EVERY YEAR for a number of years.

Within years after DL bought Pan Am's TATL operation - now almost 25 years - DL has operated its TATL network with a number of routes operating solely on a seasonal basis.

DL has long been able to adjust its workforce.

In case you also missed it, DL has offered early out and early retirement packages about every 2 years and their average is about 2000 "takers" per year. and DL has most of the early outs take effect in the fall - right before the offpeak winter season.

DL has been far more aggressive in adjusting its network to match demand - season to season and day of week to day of week - than any other network airline and still managed to keep its employees secure.

specific to MEM, these newest cuts are simply the result of the final fine-tuning of the hub reductions which are the result of the merger and the redeployment of capacity to where it makes the most sense.

WN has done some and is probably close to being thru, UA is doing it, and AA will do it.

it is a major justification for consolidation and mergers in the industry.
 
Thats horse poop. 
 
The outsourcing of the TATL network didn't start till Anderson got here. His end game goal is to do just like NW did, fly to Europe some in the summer, then CDG/LON/FRA/AMS in winter and let AF/KL/AZ do all the flying. 
 
Still well below the limits of the TATL JV agreement btw. 
WorldTraveler said:
 
Great... AA has not been doing it to anywhere near the same degree... and thus, the focus is now on what AA is doing.


 
 
uh... DL is the largest US carrier (and usually during the summer largest carrier period) across the Atlantic, so, DL's decision to buy Pan Am gave DL the mass in Europe it needed.

More significantly, DL is profitable on a year around basis to both Europe and Asia, something, uh hmm, other carriers cannot say.
 

It would make it a whole lot easier if some people would be willing to admit that other people are indeed right... I said all along that new AA would have to cut capacity despite its massive additions of capacity during BK. Sure enough, it is happening now

correct me if I am wrong but AA has cut a number of Asian routes to less than daily for the winter, they are suspending a number of European routes on a seasonal basis, and they are even beginning to slow their growth in Latin America.

Despite what a lot of people want to believe or deny, Parker is running AA to make money instead of to run its network like, uh, Pan Am, which flew where it wanted when it wanted regardless of whether it made money or not.

Things are a- changing at AA.

And for the better in terms of profitability.
 

perhaps some missed it but I will note once again that US' entire int'l network - not just CLT - is taking a bigger hit in cuts compared to AA's.
 
Don't think so. I believe United is larger now. 
WorldTraveler said:
Hey dudette,
It would appear that you have some uncontrollable urge to jump into a conversation even when you say you have me on ignore, so yeah, you better believe I am in control.

Kev-o,
despite your belief that the world revolves around you and ACS, if DL is replacing DCI operated flights (which the article says they are), more mainline aircraft means more mainline employees - ACS or not.

Since DL's latest quarterly report and every traffic report shows that mainline is growing while DCI is shrinking, then yes it absolutely validates that DL is not only protecting the jobs of and growing opportunities for mainline employees; the 717s are a big part of the reason why.

best yet, DL is expanding its network and showing profits in every region of the world while doing so.... other cAArriers should be so lucky to be able to say that.
Slow down there buddy. 
 
It is all how you look at it. Delta is adding pilots and FAs.......but I have yet to see a new ramp station. I have yet to see an maintenance increase due to the 717. Matter of fact for the MX side the 717 is hurting, ie cutting employees. All those CRJ engines (~400 engines) are going away and being replaced be 60 new CF34-8 engines. Oh and the Land gear, overhauls, seats, etc are all out of house.
 
Hell Delta doesn't even have PSV lines for the 717, sounds like that is AAR bound too. (I guess that is better than Mexico)
 
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topDawg said:
1x CR9 and 1x ERJ flight is nothing. This is all about pulling down 50 seat flying. 
 
now the 321/739 even 717 capacity coming in is what is giving the wiggle rumor for the SEA flying.
I'll concede you can't point at cuts in one station and say definitively that they funded adds in another. At the same time, the cuts at MEM do freed up shells that can be used elsewhere. To grow when you aren't taking deliveries or increasing CPA feed, you have to cut.
 
topDawg said:
Hell Delta doesn't even have PSV lines for the 717, sounds like that is AAR bound too. (I guess that is better than Mexico)
Interesting that you'd see outsourcing to a US vendor as preferable to using DL's joint venture across the border. I happen to agree in that I'd rather see US based jobs and money spent within the US, but the loyalists would argue you're better keeping business in the family, even if they're the crazy uncle nobody wants to invite to Thanksgiving.
 
dawg,
ExpressJet/ASA is also shrinking. There are CRJs that come off contract in the next 18 months with them as well.
If you have been around DL as long as you say you have, then you would know that DL's first transatlantic venture was with Swissair and Sabena and came after DL realized it could not fly all of the Pan AM network on its own.

Legally, AF/KL is a deeper venture but it came before KL/NW and DL funneled huge amounts of traffic to SR/SN. At one time, SN operated the 747 to CVG as part of the venture. DL operated ZRH.

And, yes, DL is a larger TATL carrier than either AA or UA.

traffic statistics are here to show it.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-airlines-group-reports-july-120000840.html
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-reports-financial-operating-performance-130000769.html
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/united-reports-july-2014-operational-202000752.html

whether DL is violating the terms of the PILOT contract regarding JV balance is something they can argue about, but DL is indeed the largest US TATL airline and started cooperating with other carriers not only long before Richard Anderson but also before KL/NW.

As for ramp and maintenance and the 717, DL rampers work what ever shows up so the fact that 717s or CR9s show up means nothing. Other than in a few hubs, shifts between aircraft types doesn't affect ramp work.

As for the 717s and maintenance, DL might not be doing the same level of maintenance as on the CRJs but the 717s were delivered ready to fly thanks to WN and the 717 agreement. DL is also pulling a couple score worth of 757s from the fleet over the next few years and replacing them with 739s and 321 - the exact same thing that AA and UA are doing. There is a limit to what DL is willing to sustain with older aircraft.

Whether DL ramp or maintenance is growing or not, there have been no layoffs either.

E,
where did you come up with the notion that DL is better outsourcing maintenance to a JV partner over anyone else?

Not only is the AF/KL/DL JV not about maintenance but neither is any other partnership.

If you are referring to the AM/DL maintenance JV, there is no evidence they have the capacity to do more than what they are doing right now.

And again, the 717s don't need much heavy maintenance right now. DL specifically said the newer fleet, just like at AA and UA, will reduce maintenance spending.
 
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Since you're apparently unable to read within the context of a discussion, I was referring to the TechOps JV. Capacity can easily be addressed. It's Mexico. They can work outside just as easily as it is to order chicken fried waffles in Atlanta....
 
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I listed that as a possible explanation... or you could have just mentioned the DL-AM maintenance JV from the start to make it clear.

Just because DL has a maintenance JV with AM doesn't mean that the JV will do outsourced work.

Waffles have nothing to do with the discussion nor does the maintenance JV have anything to do with MEM.
 
still has nothing to do with the topic whether dawg mentioned it or not.

My statement about the arrival of the 717s creating more jobs for DL employees is accurate.

He wanted to make the conversation about maintenance overhauls on the 717 which has nothing to do with the service changes at MEM.

FAs and pilots are being hired wherever the 717 goes.

There is no evidence of staffing station being affected by these changes at MEM because DL is increasing the number of seats.
 
no, here is the OP
 
 
 
Hardly shocking. To build up SEA, the shells had to come from somewhere.
you jumped in with the first response which was inaccurate because DL is actually adding seats, not reducing them.
 
Like I said before:

MEM:DL = PIT:US
As someone that used to work there when it was really hopping, these cuts are tough to watch. People can make as many economic points as they want- and E's point about needing airframes is quite likely valid- it still bums me out.

It's also my understanding that we no longer have our own tower there anymore...
and this one which is also inaccurate because he took what you said as the truth which it is not.

We could have locked the thread pages ago if any one of the first posters had actually accurately read the article which specifically notes that DL is reducing the number of destinations but increasing the number of seats.

The only factual piece of this discussion which hasn't been mentioned is that despite DL's cuts at MEM, they still maintain right at 50% share of the LOCAL market boardings and a revenue premium relative to other carriers.

DL has lost share in MEM - with WN being the largest gainer - but DL still maintains a revenue premium and the majority of the local market. Yet WN's gains come with higher average fares than FL had as WN's average fares have grown relative to FL's.

DL so far has done in MEM what neither AA or US have done in any of the hubs they have downsized which is to maintain their dominance of the local market which maintaining a revenue premium.

The connecting traffic which was the bulk of the DL/NW operation at MEM has moved elsewhere on DL's system or been eliminated as part of the overall reduction in industry capacity.

For comparison, DL has maintained an even higher share of CVG, a larger and more lucrative market, while cuts there have stabilized. The only real gainer in CVG has been F9 with its new service.


Those are the facts about the reductions which have taken place in MEM.
 
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