More MEM Cuts

[700UW]

From Another Web Page:

*DL MEM-BHM JAN 3>0.1 FEB 3>0 MAR 3>0 APR 3>0 MAY 3>0 JUN 3>0 JUL 3>0
*DL MEM-BNA JAN 3>1.6 FEB 3>1.6 MAR 3>1.7 APR 3>1.7 MAY 3>1.7 JUN 3>1.7 JUL 3>1.7
*DL MEM-FLL APR 1.0>0.2 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0.7
*DL MEM-JAN JAN 3>1.7 FEB 3>1.6 MAR 3>1.5 APR 3>1.7 MAY 3>1.7 JUN 3>1.7 JUL 3>1.7
*DL MEM-JAX JAN 1.6>0.1 FEB 1.6>0 MAR 1.7>0 APR 1.7>0 MAY 1.7>0 JUN 1.7>0 JUL 1.7>0
*DL MEM-LAX FEB 2.0>1.4 MAR 3>1.3 APR 3>1.4 MAY 3>1.4 JUN 3>1.6 JUL 3>1.7
*DL MEM-LIT JAN 1.6>0.9 FEB 1.6>0.8 MAR 1.7>0.8 APR 1.7>0.9 MAY 1.7>0.8 JUN 1.7>0.8 JUL 1.7>0.9
*DL MEM-MCI JAN 3>1.6 FEB 3>1.6 MAR 3>1.7 APR 3>1.7 MAY 3>1.7 JUN 3>1.7 JUL 3>1.7
*DL MEM-MCO MAY 3>1.8
*DL MEM-RDU JAN 3>1.6 FEB 3>1.6 MAR 3>1.7 APR 3>1.7 MAY 3>1.7 JUN 3>1.7 JUL 3>1.7
*DL MEM-SAT MAR 3>1.7 APR 3>1.7 MAY 3>1.7 JUN 3>1.7 JUL 3>1.7
*DL MEM-SEA JUN 0.7>0 JUL 1.0>0
*DL MEM-SFO JUL 0.8>0
*DL MEM-STL JAN 3>1.6 FEB 3>1.6 MAR 3>1.7 APR 3>1.7 MAY 3>1.7 JUN 3>1.7 JUL 3>1.7
*DL MEM-TUL JAN 1.6>0.8 FEB 1.6>0.8 MAR 1.7>0.8 APR 1.7>0.9 MAY 1.7>0.8 JUN 1.7>0.8 JUL 1.7>0.9
*DL MEM-TYS JAN 3>1.6 FEB 3>1.6 MAR 3>1.7 APR 3>1.7 MAY 3>1.7 JUN 3>1.7 JUL 3>1.7
DL MSP-YVR JAN 2.0>1.8 FEB 1.9>1.8

 

[WorldTraveler]

Given the reduction in the CRJ fleet, these are not unexpected.

DL no longer has a need to use CVG or MEM as connecting hubs since they have much larger hubs at DTW and ATL, respectively.

DL's sole focus in CVG and MEM is in maintaining its share of the local market. It is noteworthy that DL's market share in the CVG local market has not dropped since cuts began in CVG several years ago. MEM cuts are fairly recent but DL's market share tracks similarly to what NW maintained - 70% or higher in both cities.

Thus, the traffic that is being lost from those cities is not local but rather connecting traffic.

It is also noteworthy that WN is reducing service in BHM in favor of its increased presence at ATL.

 

[737823]

When they cut the AMS flight a few weeks back I figured more cuts were to follow . What does MEM bring to the table?

What job protections and severance packages did the IAM champion for the affected workers had the IAM still been a certified collective bargaining agent at DL/NW? With DL, Im sure the workers gave have the opportunity to apply for openings at other stations and receive severance pay and benefits.

Josh

 

[700UW]

I doubt MEM to SFO and SEA used an RJ.

 

[Kev3188]

When they cut the AMS flight a few weeks back I figured more cuts were to follow . What does MEM bring to the table?

A cheap facility to use, very little ATC constraint, and relatively mild weather?

What job protections and severance packages did the IAM champion for the affected workers had the IAM still been a certified collective bargaining agent at DL/NW? With DL, Im sure the workers gave have the opportunity to apply for openings at other stations and receive severance pay and benefits.

Under our CBA, an employee affected by a reduction in force could do the following (assuming they were unable to continue to "hold" MEM):

1. Exercise their seniority on the system. Our language didn't bother with "juniority lists," and the like; you could go anywhere your seniority could hold.

2. Bid for an open position in another station.

3. Retire with enhanced severance

4. Take the layoff (5 yr. recall rights), and continue to be eligible to bid on any open positions that may come up.

5. Resign.

Under a CBA, a reduction in force is a orderly, consistent process, and everyone knows where everyone else stands (labor & mgmt. both). More importantly, it's a transparent process.

With DL, none of those adjectives apply.

*There is no ability to exercise.

* Assuming you want to put in for an open position on the internal system, there is no way to tell who was awarded it.

*Furthermore, the time frame for awards is all over the map. Some people get notified right away, others wait weeks. If you're not facing a furlough, and just want a change of scenery, that's merely annoying. If you are facing one, it's cruel.

* All policies are fluid, and their application is consistently inconsistent. Not only is the language regarding reduction in force murky at best, it also is (of course) prefaced with "all policies may be changed at anytime for any reason." The structure in use today may not be when people in MEM need it... or it may have changed with the wind. Who knows?

I doubt MEM to SFO and SEA used an RJ.

Airbii at last glance...

 

[700UW]

Thanks Kev for posting the facts.

Maybe the resident IAM hater will actually learn something.

 

[737823]

Under our CBA, an employee affected by a reduction in force could do the following (assuming they were unable to continue to "hold" MEM):

1. Exercise their seniority on the system. Our language didn't bother with "juniority lists," and the like; you could go anywhere your seniority could hold.

2. Bid for an open position in another station.

3. Retire with enhanced severance

4. Take the layoff (5 yr. recall rights), and continue to be eligible to bid on any open positions that may come up.

5. Resign.

Thanks Kev, but again how is this any different than DL? You will say that the CBA guarantees all of this which is true but if DL still gives workers the ability to transfer how is it any different? DL still uses seniority for bidding so how is it different?

What are juniority lists? Interesting that unionist condone bumping other union brother and sisters in other stations from their positions and then cover it up by saying "I have seniority". You are imposing hardship on your fellow colleagues, many of whom are more junior and possibly less able to handle the bumps in the road (home to sell, spouse job in city, child[ren] in school, family, etc). Is this your idea of solidarity? Outside the union world, people who do not perform get terminated. Doesn't matter if you are there 25 years or 25 minutes, if you don't perform to a satisfactory level you are toast. Move up or move out...

Josh

 

[700UW]

Once again you dont get it.

DL has no formal policy on layoffs and bumping.

And yes seniority rules, so your saying if I have 30 years and my station is closing that a one year employee should remain?

Explain that logic and how its fair.

And workers under a CBA get fired all the time, the only difference is that it has to follow "Just Cause".

Maybe instead of posting misinformation and not knowing what goes on you should leave that to the people that have lived it.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Aside from the typical labor argument that has graced this forum, DL offers ALL of the features that the IAM championed except for the ability to bump someone from an existing position.
DL has never done that in any ground position and DL employees have consistently said it isn't valuable enough to vote in a union to gain that right.

DL DOES have a formal layoff policy for ground workers... it just isn't backed by a CBA that every other airline has run into BK court and ceremoniously shredded.... which is probably why DL employees see little to no value in having a contract when it has stopped no airline from anything.
(note the difference in the tone on the AA thread about AA/US - the continual downward spiral - yet when the discussion turns to DL it is "look what unions have done).
Pick a position and stick with it.

I'm sure there will be attempts to debate that point but that is the bottom line....

besides, how many full-time employees or even DL mainline employees are affected given that MEM has had such a high concentration of DCI employees and flights for so long?

MEM-SFO may have operated with non-RJ equipment but it doesn't change that the MEM hub has fallen below critical mass for carrying connections - and thus markets like AMS and SFO don't work anymore because the local market is not large enough to support that level of service.

You need only look at what CVG has left to see that CVG still has alot more service left in comparison, due in part to the much larger business base which CVG has... .and the CVG local market has long been larger than MEM.

MEM was a great hub but it simply isn't needed any more... just like so many other legacy carrier hubs.

The difference is that DL has maintained and likely will maintain its local market share despite the greatly reduced traffic.

MEM airport may want to see hundreds of jets parked there but from DL's perspective they carry local passengers to/from each city and they carry connecting passengers who they really don't care where they connect. ATL, DTW, and MSP are far more effective and efficient hubs in distributing traffic that once flowed over MEM.

 

[737823]

It's interesting DL has cut the PM-NW hub capacity and the two reservations center that closed since the meter were PN-NW. Flying at PM-DL hubs has increased ATL, NYC, SLC yet MEM and MSP have been cut. Sure MSP has lost some flying at locals prefer A330/320 and don't like the 763s and MD-88s that replaced them, the HQ loss and training center cuts were big to MN too. Also, looks like DL has right sized capacity at CVG and things seem steady at least for the time being.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Funny I been through two chapter 11 cases and our layoff and seniority language was never changed.

And how long have you been gone from DL WT?

And I believe you even had to challenge DL when you were displaced, thats what you posted, yep they have a fair and consistent policy, lol.

I would take Kevin's word over you're word any day, since he is an active DL employee and you are not.

 

[737823]

Once again you dont get it.

DL has no formal policy on layoffs and bumping.

And yes seniority rules, so your saying if I have 30 years and my station is closing that a one year employee should remain?

Explain that logic and how its fair.

And workers under a CBA get fired all the time, the only difference is that it has to follow "Just Cause".

Maybe instead of posting misinformation and not knowing what goes on you should leave that to the people that have lived it.

Perhaps what you don't understand is that most people don't subscribe to the notion that tenure/seniority dictates everything in the workplace. People are paid for what they contribute, not what some arbitrary document says their above market wage is. Maybe the workers that took jobs in MEM should have seen the writing on the wall and moved onto to other stations or gotten employment with other carriers. As Bob has posted before, people going into the airline industry know it is turbulent and unstable at time. Just because you have seniority over someone at another station doesn't make it right to impose a hardship on them.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

It's not a question of whose word to accept... it's a question of what is the truth. DL's ground employees and FAs have fared better in BK cuts both in terms of fewer dollars but also fewer people being cut than those at any union represented airline and DL people are regaining more of what they lost faster than any other airline.

Tell me again how many post BK pay raises US has given to its personnel? UA before the merger process began? and both of those were out of BK long before NW and DL.

And by the way, DL's open door policy worked exactly as it was intended to do... my appeal resulted in an additional 13 years at DL for me.

But you obviously started this thread again not because you care one iota about the level of service in MEM but because you want to try to fan the flames of labor discord just a little longer.

Go for it.... I'll be happy to prove you wrong again just as I have dozens of times before.

Josh,
DL had and still has nothing against NW's hubs or people. DL is what it is today because it recognized all that NW had to offer and has developed all of the DL/NW assets as well they have... the HDQ reductions were no different from in any other corporate merger. DL paid to gain the freedom to run its business like a business... NW accepted state loans tied to employment levels. Subsidized economics never work.... NW accepted inefficiencies in its business in order to gain access to state money.

DTW and MSP have comparable levels of service compared to the rest of DL's network - which is smaller as a result of removing capacity in order to force fares up... but again note that DL is taking the lions share of capacity out of the DCI network and not DL mainline which is why CVG and MEM are feeling the pain more than other hubs.

Don't discount the impact that PMNW's network had on helping to build NYC. DTW and MSP combined are probably as large from LGA as ATL... and JFK-NRT, where DL is the largest carrier and has average fare premiums over UA from EWR and AA from JFK (even after dropping its own metal flight) would only be possible and only does as well as it does because of the PMNW hub at NRT. JFK-NRT is one of the highest revenue markets for DL on its entire system. There is a reason why the 744 is on there and JFK-NRT was one of the first markets to be given the first refurbished 744s.

DL has also added 8-10 new long-haul flights from SEA and DTW, both of which were PMNW, not PMDL, hubs/gateways.

 

[Kev3188]

Thanks Kev, but again how is this any different than DL? You will say that the CBA guarantees all of this which is true but if DL still gives workers the ability to transfer how is it any different? DL still uses seniority for bidding so how is it different?

The main difference is what I've already noted. It's a concrete policy, everyone knows it, and above all, it's transparent. The workers at least had a modicum of control over the process. At DL, they have none, and all of the info that was once available to anyone at anytime is now treated like a sort of state secret.

What are juniority lists? Interesting that unionist condone bumping other union brother and sisters in other stations from their positions and then cover it up by saying "I have seniority". You are imposing hardship on your fellow colleagues, many of whom are more junior and possibly less able to handle the bumps in the road (home to sell, spouse job in city, child[ren] in school, family, etc).

At other carriers, the bumping is a bit more convoluted. In many cases, you have to bump the junior person on the system. The company usually provides a list to affected employees of where those people are, and that can dictate where you can bump. As you might imagine, that can lead to a lot of churn; our language was, IMO, much more straightforward, and much more preferable.

Outside the union world, people who do not perform get terminated. Doesn't matter if you are there 25 years or 25 minutes, if you don't perform to a satisfactory level you are toast. Move up or move out...

Aren't we talking about reduction in force? That's a totally separate issue from performance.

Pre-emptive strike before it comes up: I have no problem with employee accountability.

Aside from the typical labor argument that has graced this forum, DL offers ALL of the features that the IAM championed except for the ability to bump someone from an existing position.

No they don't.

DL DOES have a formal layoff policy for ground workers... it just isn't backed by a CBA

...Which means it can-and does- change at any time.

besides, how many full-time employees or even DL mainline employees are affected given that MEM has had such a high concentration of DCI employees and flights for so long?

Hundreds.

I'd go look at the seniority list and tell you, but of course it's not available from home. Another step backwards from what we had at NW.

You need only look at what CVG has left to see that CVG still has alot more service left in comparison, due in part to the much larger business base which CVG has... .and the CVG local market has long been larger than MEM.

In the thread I think 700 is citing, someone noted that MEM has actually seen more pax than CVG so far this year.

No need to pontificate on O&D vs. connecting volumes; I get it. I just thought that was an interesting bit of trivia.

The difference is that DL has maintained and likely will maintain its local market share despite the greatly reduced traffic.

Maybe, but that's more due to lack of any viable options, as opposed to being a carrier of choice. Lots of enmity in the Bluff City right now.

Also: Politifact weighs in: http://www.politifact.com/tennessee/statements/2012/nov/25/steve-cohen/delta-broke-promises-memphis-says-congressman-cohe/

It's interesting DL has cut the PM-NW hub capacity and the two reservations center that closed since the meter were PN-NW. Flying at PM-DL hubs has increased ATL, NYC, SLC yet MEM and MSP have been cut. Sure MSP has lost some flying at locals prefer A330/320 and don't like the 763s and MD-88s that replaced them, the HQ loss and training center cuts were big to MN too. Also, looks like DL has right sized capacity at CVG and things seem steady at least for the time being.

 

[Airlinelifer]

WorldTraveler. Under the IAM CBA "I" chose to bump to FLL from MIA after NWA contracted out the ramp after bankruptcy, in fact the person I bumped is a friend of mine that bumped down to a PT line, which he later upgraded back to FT (recall rights) after one of our senior rampers retired a few months later. Compare that to a Delta ramp agents from MIA at about the same time had lost their positions when Delta contracted out the ramp. They had no bumping rights, even though they had seniority on coworkers in FLL. Some made it to FLL because FLL had open positions, most did not, they ended up in Atlanta.

Under the IAM CBA:
Seniority lists for all positions (FT, PT) for each station covered under the CBA.
After employee gets notified of Reduction in Force, he sits down with his family and "they" decide whats the next move to make.

Move the family or commute?
If I commute I have the option to stay with relatives or friends home at a station I "can hold."

If I move my family?
What city?
What about the cost of living, childrens education, real estate questions at the stations I can hold?
With all the stress of a move, at least the employee has options.

Full transparency when postitions are awarded: name of employee awarded position, station employee was assigned, seniority date.
Full Recall Rights. No permenent positions can be awarded at that station when employees are on layoff.



Under Delta's policy: NONE OF THE ABOVE!