More MEM cuts

So you are an airline, aviation and airline expert too?

You are nothing put a US, CLT and union hater and the IATA is a very well respected organization.

But you are nothing but a legend in your own mind.
 
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700UW said:
So you are an airline, aviation and airline expert too?

You are nothing put a US, CLT and union hater and the IATA is a very well respected organization.

But you are nothing but a legend in your own mind.
Familiar with them myself. But again whatever criteria they have in place is fine-awards are often given with other motivation and are highly subjective. I happen not to be a fan of CLT, get over it. Any individual is free to have whatever opinion they'd like of airport/airline/city/restaurant/union/etc they would like. Guess you can't tolerate an alternative point of view, and as usual resort to attacks.

Josh
 
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I can't tolerate someone who hates for no reason, someone who posts misinformation all the time.

Without facts.
 
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WT how can you continue to say that DL employees are enjoying compensation far greater than any CBA could allow but in practically claim in the same breath that WN (one of the most heavily unionized carriers in the world, btw) is poised to "[with DL] run everyone else over"? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth
 
we've been thru this before but I'll be happy to address your question one more time.

I have never said that DL employees have the highest compensation in the industry. I have said that DL employees have gained far more than their network carrier peers and even since BK have gained more in terms of salary and profit sharing increases than even their peers at WN.

WN is a great airline and I have a lot of respect for them but they are adapting into a new phase in their life and they aren't delivering the revenues and the increases for their employees that they once delivered. WN employees are still very well paid and that won't change anytime soon.

But the common thread that DL and WN both have is that they are very successful companies and their employees benefit in large part because DL and WN employees understand what it takes for their employer to win. The same thing can be said about B6.

In complete contrast we have the majority of the legacy airlines that have highly contentious labor relations and that translates directly into efforts by those airlines to extract the most from their employees and keep those employees with the lowest pay for as long as possible.

My continuous theme has been that the prosperity of companies and the alignment of labor with the companies' goals is a far greater measure of success than any CBA has delivered or any union could delivered.

DL employees do well because the company is well run and the employees by and large are giving the company what it needs to succeed.

 
I'm curious to see where the DCA slot(s) wind up...
We'll see in time since they can't get "parked" for any length of time without use but I think you will see DL open a few more int'l gateways where DL most needs to be.... maybe not tomorrow but it might not be too far down the road.


As for the discussion about CLT, I will agree that I don't think CLT is that great of a facility.. it is cobbled together from multiple concourses that were never intended to serve as a massive hub for an airline.
That said, it will probably surprise a lot of people that I don't rank ATL a whole lot higher because the facility is pushed well behind what it was designed to do. ATL and CLT both succeed because they serve huge parts of the country and huge global traffic flows that aren't served by any other hubs. DFW and MSP are in a similar vein but it is a little better designed as a hub and isn't pushed quite to the extreme.

I have said before and will say again that if DL could swap ATL for DTW, they would be in a incredible position. NW did an incredible job with building the DTW facilities and it is a shame that there aren't more flights there... but the market, not the facility, drives the schedule.

Still, the DL terminal and concourse in DTW are some of the best in the world.

Bar none.
 
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Agree completely on DTW, they have the finest all around facilities in the nation between North Terminal, McNamara Terminal, and Westin hotel. NW really did a great job there and it is my understanding that the facility also came in very competitive on the cost side as well for a facility of that size and scope.

ATL is not bad local or connecting honestly. Security lines can be long but with Precheck and now the new intl terminal it is much better. I have yet to experience the DL Porsche service though but have only heard excellent things. Sounds like a win win arrangement for DL and Porsche alike. Cosmetically the facilities are much better than MEM (and CLT) and have better dining options like One Flew South and french bakery in new international terminal.

Josh
 
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This is the quote I was referring to:
 
WorldTraveler said:
Anyone that has any sense at all will recognize that the industry has been fundamentally reshaped over the past several years and is and will be driven by DL and WN with the rest of the pack trying desperately to keep from being run over in the process.
 
 
How can you compare WN to DL when WN's labor costs, aging planes, etc are making it look more and more like a classic legacy with each passing year, and still say that WN is still going to "run over" us? I am not buying it, partularly when both carriers take such a fundamentally different view on how to run an airline. It can't be just as you say that they both "know what it takes" to keep their employees happy… That makes no sense. NK is hugely successful but I don't see any of their pilots for flight attendants jumping for joy.
 
 
WorldTraveler said:
 
DL employees do well because the company is well run and the employees by and large are giving the company what it needs to succeed.
 
 
This is a vague statement that makes no sense. There are plenty of people at DL who have signed IAM cards who might disagree with it, if only they knew what it meant.
 
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There is no denying DL is a well run airline that is excelling on nearly any metric. They are investing in the product, facilities and doing innovative things other carriers haven't tried. What is interesting to me is looking at DLs revenue numbers compared to UA, arguably UA has better/stronger hubs but aren't able to get the same peformance as DL can in many markets. As far as labor is concerned, DL has gone in another direction and so far things are working out. Kev and others may carryon about alleged injustices, inconsistencies, mistreatments etc from DL but on the whole people seem to be happy. Who knows if there are changes to the RLA and a possible national right to work law maybe more airline employees will question the value of representation from the AFA, IAM, TWU, etc that haven't delivered for their constituents.

Josh
 
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How can you compare WN to DL when WN's labor costs, aging planes, etc are making it look more and more like a classic legacy with each passing year, and still say that WN is still going to "run over" us? I am not buying it, partularly when both carriers take such a fundamentally different view on how to run an airline. It can't be just as you say that they both "know what it takes" to keep their employees happy… That makes no sense. NK is hugely successful but I don't see any of their pilots for flight attendants jumping for joy.
 
 
 
This is a vague statement that makes no sense. There are plenty of people at DL who have signed IAM cards who might disagree with it, if only they knew what it meant.
You do realize that WN's fleet age will remain higher than AA and UA's and WN and DL will have older fleets?

Apparently DL and WN both agree that brand new airplanes aren't necessary to make money. And you will see that AA and UA will both spend enormous amounts of money to refleet over the next few years but still will not be competitive with DL and WN who have significantly lower costs.

How effective do you think a company can be when it costs 10% more to produce a product compared to a competitor?
10% is the amount of cost advantage that DL has over UA. The advantage over AA is not quite as bad and DL and WN now have closer costs to each other than DL has to UA and AA. DL is more like WN in terms of cost per seat mile than it is to its network peers.

If you don't understand the significance of what having a cost advantage means in the airline industry, it will become increasingly apparent in the next few years. There has not been a time in the US airline industry where one network carrier has had a cost advantage as large as what DL has compared to AA and UA -and the gap will continue to grow as DL reduces its costs with the 717s and other cost initiatives while AA is focused on a merger and UA is paying labor premiums to finish its merger.

The US airline industry has entered a new chapter that will see DL and WN increasingly dominant the industry at the expense of AA and UA. If you don't believe it, stick around.

As for the IAM and signed cards, we've heard that for at least five years and yet DL's largest groups are still not represented by labor.

The fact that DL is making enough money to keep its people at pay levels above what peers at AA and UA are making and is adding to those increases including profit sharing at high levels means there really is no viable threat of unionization at DL as much as some people want to try to say otherwise.

DL and WN are both running outstanding businesses and their employees are benefitting. Labor representation has nothing to do with it.
 
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737823 said:
Agree completely on DTW, they have the finest all around facilities in the nation between North Terminal, McNamara Terminal, and Westin hotel. NW really did a great job there and it is my understanding that the facility also came in very competitive on the cost side as well for a facility of that size and scope.

ATL is not bad local or connecting honestly. Security lines can be long but with Precheck and now the new intl terminal it is much better. I have yet to experience the DL Porsche service though but have only heard excellent things. Sounds like a win win arrangement for DL and Porsche alike. Cosmetically the facilities are much better than MEM (and CLT) and have better dining options like One Flew South and french bakery in new international terminal.

Josh
 
 
No doubt DTW is a fantastic facility, but MSP is still my sentimental favorite (and has the Porsche service as well, FWIW)...
 
Kev3188 said:
No doubt DTW is a fantastic facility, but MSP is still my sentimental favorite (and has the Porsche service as well, FWIW)...
Just curious Kev...only answer if you want but did you also work at MSP? How was the culture there vs MEM vs PDX vs other stations?

Josh
 
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Seems that Josh lucked out and never got a RIF notice, he seems just "giddy" that MEM and any other airport that doesn't meet his "standard" should be cast out. 
 
No empathy for those affected.
 
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Airlinelifer said:
Seems that Josh lucked out and never got a RIF notice, he seems just "giddy" that MEM and any other airport that doesn't meet his "standard" should be cast out. 
 
No empathy for those affected.
Not true-AA has cut jobs at BOS, UA outsourced MHT and MIA, looks like UA will contract out PVD too. Changes need to be made, DL has a duty to their employees, shareholders, passengers, and other stakeholders to run a stable, profitable airline. Keeping flights and jobs at MEM when the hub doesn't perform doesn't suit the long term interests of these stakeholders.

Josh
 
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Ok Josh, I get the financial part of it, (wasn't MEM/CVG dehubbing murmered right after the merger announcement?).  But you don't have to so damn "giddy" with the bad news of people moving to keep their jobs, it can rub people the wrong way. 
 
Look at how you answered my post, you deflect it by pointing at the other airlines cutbacks while my post was directed at YOU not DL, DL is a corporation, not a human being (Citizens United can pound sand), black and white, making money to survive and thrive is the motto,  I understand that. 
 
I would like to know if you have ever been laidoff?
 
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Airlinelifer said:
Ok Josh, I get the financial part of it, (wasn't MEM/CVG dehubbing murmered right after the merger announcement?).  But you don't have to so damn "giddy" with the bad news of people moving to keep their jobs, it can rub people the wrong way. 
 
Look at how you answered my post, you deflect it by pointing at the other airlines cutbacks while my post was directed at YOU not DL, DL is a corporation, not a human being (Citizens United can pound sand), black and white, making money to survive and thrive is the motto,  I understand that. 
 
I would like to know if you have ever been laidoff?
Fortunately not yet but I do empathize. I just have a different perspective on all this. DL doesn't exist to provide people in MEM employment. Yes DL like any other corporation needs employees to function and should take care of them but I do not believe they are or should be under any obligation to keep an airport staffed and operating unprofitable flying. GM doesn't operate unprofitable factories, Macys doesn't keep underperforming stores, DL shouldn't keep those flights/jobs in MEM. Admittedly I'm not a fan of MEM but I certainly do not take any joy seeing peoples' lives devastated and financial security threatened.

Josh
 
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