New B717 flying for DL

[BABABOOY]

What's the significance of seat 10C?

The seat map doesn't really show that 10C is right in the middle of the aisle.
Since the only galley is up front now.   Trying to maneuver not one but two carts(717) and 
three for the MD90 around that seat can make it very difficult for the passenger in that seat.
(knees).  

 

[Kev3188]

Thanks! I hadn't really noticed the "turn" the few times I've been up there, but it's not really what I've been looking for, either.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL's strategy for the 717 is to return mainline service to markets where mainline has not been seen on any carrier for years using aircraft that are lower to acquire and operate on a per seat basis than any other alternative, esp. given DL's fuel cost advantage.

The small turn in the aisle is insignificant compared to the increased benefit the aircraft provides to markets where DL will provide the only mainline service and a higher percentage of it compared to its competitors.

DSM and MSN are just two markets where DL was historically very weak before the NW merger but now provides the most mainline seats of any carrier. Quite an incredible change as a result of having the right aircraft flying to the right hubs.

it is also worth noting that DL has the highest average fare from both DSM and MSN among the big 3 carriers and also has the smallest RJ network among the big 3 based on the most recent traffic reports.

Having smaller regional and more mainline service will increasingly become an advantage.

 

[BABABOOY]

The small turn in the aisle is insignificant compared to the increased benefit the aircraft provides to markets where DL will provide the only mainline service and a higher percentage of it compared to its competitors.
 

umm the problems that F/A's have with this and the other MD a/c are more than just a "small turn".   Delta cut galley space in half and replaced full carts with 1/2 carts.  Delta basically said now deal with it.  No input, no compromise. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

I don't doubt the extra complexity of service on the McD-D aircraft.

and on every 717 and M80/90 flight I have been on, the FAs have managed to deliver the service the company asks of them.

remember also that DL is reducing the size of the galleys on other aircraft to what is necessary to provide the level of service those aircraft offer.... the huge galleys of yesteryear aren't needed any more based on current service levels.

guess what? the pilots prefer the far easier to fly newer generation aircraft. The M88 has the reputation of being a plane that the pilots really have to fly - not just oversee computers.

And it still doesn't change DL has increased its network footprint with mainline aircraft because of DL's strategy to acquire lower cost mainline aircraft including the 717s.

DL has long excelled at being more efficient both with its aircraft and its employees than its peers and the fact that continues that tradition and now couples it with the best revenue generating capacity among US carriers is why DL employees will very likely once again record the richest profit sharing payout among US carriers when earnings are announced later this week.

you can see DL's revenue advantage to other US carriers in the chart at section 7 here
http://marketrealist.com/2014/07/why-low-cost-carriers-influence-the-industry-with-low-air-fares/

 

[Kev3188]

Delta basically said now deal with it. No input, no compromise.

That's life as an at-will employee.

Not sure how it was historically on the DL side, but at NW, F/A's worked together with the company to provide input on things like galley layouts.

Personally, I don't know how you all do it... 1/2 cart or not, that turn looks like a nightmare to wrestle things through.

 

[WorldTraveler]

would you like to tell us how PMNWs unions managed to succeed at convincing the company to reconfigure galleys?

honestly, Kev.

the DL FAs who can make that turn without whacking customer knees clearly know what they are doing. probably just like you and your PMNW peers have managed to learn DL's systems and deliver some of the best operational performance among the largest US carriers and, some of them actually say they have friends with PMDL people.

both are QUITE the accomplishments.

 

[737823]

That's life as an at-will employee.

Not sure how it was historically on the DL side, but at NW, F/A's worked together with the company to provide input on things like galley layouts.

Personally, I don't know how you all do it... 1/2 cart or not, that turn looks like a nightmare to wrestle things through.

 
Kev even the most restrictive CBAs allow companies to make most business decisions as they see fit.  There is often language to the effect of "will consult union" or "will meet with union" but at the end of the day DL is a business and needs to do things as they see fit.  Yes its good to get feedback from the people actually working the job but it is unreasonable to expect the company to cater to employee interests all the time.  I mean white collar professionals aren't able to demand to their bosses the types of furniture and office equipment they have (for the most part).
 
Josh

 

[Kev3188]

I'm not sure how (or why) you're taking the phrase "worked together" to mean  "cater to" and "demand."

 

[WorldTraveler]

and DL works with its employees as well. Whether that includes galley formats or not, I don't know.

Far more significant of an example is the revamp of int'l service procedures which were heavily driven by frontline input.

The point of DL's galley reconfigs on domestic aircraft is clearly to reduce the amount of galley space and weight and to increase the amount of space in the cabin to carry passengers.

Removing that turn would probably come at the cost of removing another seat. No amount of employee input is going to be able to replace the revenue that an additional seat at the front of the coach cabin can generate.

If DL created a situation where the cart physically could not make the turn because of the installed seats, then it would be one thing.

Also, many of DL's domestic aircraft are now getting smaller 1/2 size carts designed for service by a single FA. Baba could highlight that but many other airlines including DCI carriers have used smaller 1/2 sized carts which are both lighter and easier to maneuver.

 

[BABABOOY]

Could you clarify this statement? 
I'm curious as to what exactly did frontline input do to revamp intl service?
 

Far more significant of an example is the revamp of int'l service procedures which were heavily driven by frontline input.
 

and as far as 1/2 carts they have been many incidents of the carts tipping over.  NOT SAFE

 

[WorldTraveler]

was there not a employee/mgmt. working group that was involved in the int'l business elite service redesign?

as for the half carts, I can certainly see that full carts are more stable. Other carriers use them so are they experiencing the same thing?

what aircraft are they on and are there any plans to rework their use?

specific to this discussion, do full or half carts "make the turn" on the 717?

 

[BABABOOY]

As far as Intl BE redesign Management wanted to change the entire service.  They called in a few
f/a's and said this is what we are doing,  make it work.  Management got what they wanted.  A complete re-vamp of service.  Real
world flights the breakfast service continues to be a problem. Now they will change it back to the old way and say see we listed 
to you. so the BE service will return to the original service.  And in two years time they will probably change it again. 
As far as other carriers using 1/2 carts? I have no idea.  I just work for Delta.
There has been a lot of teething problems with the stocking and operation of the 1/2 carts.
Lots of trial and error.  We use them so far on the MD88/90/717 and I believe 739. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

what do FAs not like about the BE breakfast service?

I will say that the breakfast service has been more "subject to interpretation" that the dinner or first service.
Obviously, DL isn't going to continue to allow the 1/2 carts to tip if that is a current problem. I expect they will be reworked.

May I ask if you regularly work int'l flights and if so do you usually work the forward cabin?

if so, are you pleased with the new service procedures? It USUALLY results in a faster service which is fine with me as a customer.

so, the turn that you must make at 10C is only with a 1/2 size cart?

 

[BABABOOY]

I will say that the breakfast service has been more "subject to interpretation" that the dinner or first service.
 

I'm not quite understanding this statement. 
 

 are you pleased with the new service procedures? It USUALLY results in a faster service which is fine with me as a customer.

 

The 1st service has, for the most part, been worked out.  I think we have our times down to what they were when we had the prior service (running out trays).
 

what do FAs not like about the BE breakfast service?

 

The service use to be a tray service.  After waking passengers (those who wanted to be awaken ) we have to ask many questions.
i.e would you like breakfast, would you like cereal, would you like eggs, would you like fruit, etc....Too many questions for those just trying to wake up.
Then they have many service items on their tray table vs having everything on a tray.  This makes it more confining to our customers if they need to quickly
get ready for arrival. (bathroom break).  After many complaints we are going back to a "Modified" tray. 
Hopefully the lunch arrival service to the states will change as well.