New Pilot TA breakdown

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

yes, Kev, the CBA can stay in force for years... that is what the RLA provides.

And DL can make it clear to the pilots that hanging onto yesteryear can be very costly if they won't work with the ocmpany to allow the company to move forward.

That is the way the collective bargaining process works. Either the union has provided a framewor that prevents DL from acting or DL acts and the union has to figure out how to extricate itself from it later.

There are alot of pilots who believe the union set a precedent of very low settlement with the company for JV violations that could impact them for years to come... and that is even on clauses that don't even exist. There are major parts of DL's network that aren't covered by any protections for the pilots and the pilots could be harmed by failing to work with the company.

that is the reality today and it has absolutely played out not only at DL but at other airlines in the past.

 
Genius.
 
The Pilots can tell Del-DUH  2 things.
 
Thing # 1
 
" Yea, we"ll  T R Y  to work with you " !
 
And Thing # 2,
 
"You've got till the stroke of midnite on 1/1/2016.
NO CONTRACT................N O...W O R K "  !
 
( Any Bets on who'll CAVE-IN First)  ?

 

[Kev3188]

Number 2 would be nice, but that's not how things work under the RLA...

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

. if the pilots or any other entity chooses to act to protect their interests at the expense of others, the company will find a way to achieve its objectives apart from that group.

 
 I'd be interested in hearing of how DL will find ways to achieve its objectives apart from the pilots.  I think that may be tough to do.
 

DALPA would do well to get past the mindset of thinking that they can sit on their duffs and benefit from the status quo while DL continues to keep them fat and happy.

I disagree - not because I like unions, but because the pilots are the probably the toughest group for an airline to replace.  So maybe it is DL that needs an adjustment in their mindset?

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

And Thing # 2,
 
"You've got till the stroke of midnite on 1/1/2016.
NO CONTRACT................N O...W O R K "  !

Number 2 would be nice, but that's not how things work under the RLA...

 
But they can still work to rule.

 

[700UW]

Thats a lot of money to turn down, so this shows money wasnt the main issues.

 

[700UW]

And it begins:
 

Delta Drops Plan for $4 Billion of Jets on Failed Pilot Contract
 
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-15/delta-drops-plan-for-4-billion-of-jets-on-failed-pilot-contract?cmpid=yhoo

 

[WorldTraveler]

Exactly as promised

 

[robbedagain]

southwind,  just my own opin..  PS can be a good thing  and it can be a bad thing    good  as long as the company posts profits    WN  is a prime example
 
bad    when the companies lose money   like the stretch of yrs that occurred at the majors  prior to the merger 
 
But  me  I would rather have a increase in wages over PS any day bec it does not take a whole lot for a company to post a loss due to variety of reasons  whereas in a contract and despite money losses  Id still have the higher take home wages vs no PS

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

 
But they can still work to rule.

 
 
 
THAAAAATS....................RI I I I I I I G H T     ! 

 

[WorldTraveler]

Why would any employee not always follow all of the rules?

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

But they can still work to rule.

 

THAAAAATS....................RI I I I I I I G H T     ! 

 

Why would any employee not always follow all of the rules?

 

Educate yourself:  "Work-to-rule is an industrial action in which employees do no more than the minimum required by the rules of their contract, and precisely follow safety or other regulations in order to cause a slowdown, rather than to serve their purposes."
 
You're welcome!

 

[WorldTraveler]

Again, why would anyone not follow all of the rules all of the time? and why would a company not choose to operate by the rules they agreed to in a CBA?

If unions think they are punishing management by doing their job right, it simply goes to show how badly out of touch unions are and how badly they look for any excuse to gain relevance - esp. when what they propose is what should be done by both sides all of the time.

btw, DL pilots have never suggested any job action. It is the pilots at a competitor that have threatened work actions because of their frustration with their lack of a TA.

And Richard Anderson was asked why the TA failed and said it is DALPA's job to come back to DL and discuss the issues and let DL know where the talks need to go. That is exactly what a bargaining agent must do when its members vote down a TA that was rejected.

 

[Kev3188]

WT-- Are you asking that as an honest question, or a loaded one?

Agree that pilots haven't publicly called for any sort of industrial action. That certainly may change as the year wears on...

As for DALPA, sure they need to bring their issues to the table, but the company should be smart enough to know what's reasonable, and what's an overreach.

IMO, this is exactly the sort of "correction" that was sorely needed here...

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Again, why would anyone not follow all of the rules all of the time? and why would a company not choose to operate by the rules they agreed to in a CBA?

 
If you do not have enough mental horsepower to grasp the difference of an employee following the rules vs. work-to-rule, well then sadly you cannot be engaged in an intelligent business discussion.
 
Frankly, I think you do realize the difference(s), but as Kev suggests, you are trying to stir the pot.  Hopefully, you can learn to grow up and not cause this topic to be locked too.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I completely grasp the concept behind work to rule.

It is based on the idea that employees and the company are doing less than that on an ongoing basis and that shouldn't be the case.

Both sides need to do their job per the agreement all the time. There is no industrial action that is justified by doing anything differently.

I didn't raise the idea of work to rule to this topic and it doesn't belong here.

DL pilots couldn't begin to express displeasure by the end of this year with their contract because the amendable date is not until the end of the year; even after Dec 31, there is a mechanism for discussion and even a year after that date is far from excessive for the process.

DL and the pilots should and will gain by signing early, if they do, and in keeping the DL pilots from ending up just like other airline labor groups that are years into negotiations with nothing to show for it.

The pilots clearly don't see enough value in the failed TA. The question is at what price any of those items can be revised - and given that many pilots said they would never sell some things, I'm not sure what DL could offer.

If anything it appears that DL tried to change too much at one time but given that what DL was proposing is similar to what exists at other carriers and other workgroups, it isn't the huge gap that many pilots want to make anyone wants to think that they are being asked to cross. DL will have to move more slowly with making changes or some things will have to be pulled off the table as long as they are sought in combination with multiple other changes.

DL and the pilots want to move forward. They will have to do it together and by giving some of what each side wants.

and until they do, the company will take other actions to advance its strategic plans, including with the real possibility that DL's mainline growth will slow down if not stop because of the 739 and E190 cancellation