Outsourcing at AA

[Duke787]

I got my TWU anti IBT mailing, (wish they could say the positives about the TWU rather then the negatives about the IBT) saying how the IBT at UAL sent their Heavy maint work to China, their 777's (52 a/c)and 747's (24 a/c).

Does AA outsource any heavy maint? Which fleets and how many a/c ?

 

[Overspeed]

I got my TWU anti IBT mailing, (wish they could say the positives about the TWU rather then the negatives about the IBT) saying how the IBT at UAL sent their Heavy maint work to China, their 777's (52 a/c)and 747's (24 a/c).

Does AA outsource any heavy maint? Which fleets and how many a/c ?

http://www.twufacts.org/Portals/5/PDFs/Leaflet%201.pdf

All 777's and most 757s. The majority of all other airframe and engines are done inside. The point being made if I read the flyer right is that the IBT promised UA M&R to bring work inhouse. The opposite has happened. The IBT took over from AMFA and the headcount went down http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2010/06/09/new-numbers-on-airline-job-losses-and-outsourcing/ as a direct result of the IBTs dropping the ball on the AMFA arbitration case that was in progress when they took over. http://www.mechanicsforchange.com/files/fliers_15.pdf

 

[Duke787]

http://www.twufacts....s/Leaflet 1.pdf

All 777's and most 757s. The majority of all other airframe and engines are done inside. The point being made if I read the flyer right is that the IBT promised UA M&R to bring work inhouse. The opposite has happened. The IBT took over from AMFA and the headcount went down http://blogs.wsj.com...nd-outsourcing/ as a direct result of the IBTs dropping the ball on the AMFA arbitration case that was in progress when they took over. http://www.mechanics...s/fliers_15.pdf

So AA under the TWU has outsourced 54 777's and lets say 80 of the 100 AA's 757's......which sounds like worst numbers then the IBT's numbers at UAL, and they make $38 an hour $11k signing bonus 10 holidays, full pay for a sick day and double time, compared to what the TWU's contract is, and what it was for the past 10 years. That was a good article from the WSJ explaining the whole industry rather then the IBT screwed it's members. Even the TWU said it will lose 50% of it's base maint by 2017.

I don't believe a union can control what gets outsourced and what base gets closed out of BK or in BK, if you do then you have to say that the TWU closed AFW, MCI, DWT, SNA MSP, and outsourced the 777 and 757 heavy checks.

 

[iluvaa]

100% of 757 heavy checks

 

[comatose]

But hey still only 35% maint spend.
I hope overhaul sees what crap the TWU sold.

 

[Gman10]

I believe 6 767's are currently scheduled to get "C" checks in Tampa. Pemco.

 

[1AA]

I read somewhere that Pemco is also in BK. AA sure knows how to pick them.

 

[AA Tulsa Mechanic]

We also have 737's being worked at Aviation technical services in Everett Washington

 

[Bob Owens]

http://www.twufacts....s/Leaflet 1.pdf

All 777's and most 757s. The majority of all other airframe and engines are done inside. The point being made if I read the flyer right is that the IBT promised UA M&R to bring work inhouse. The opposite has happened. The IBT took over from AMFA and the headcount went down http://blogs.wsj.com...nd-outsourcing/ as a direct result of the IBTs dropping the ball on the AMFA arbitration case that was in progress when they took over. http://www.mechanics...s/fliers_15.pdf

Didnt our head count go down as well? IIRC we are below 8000 now.

If the TWU wants to stay they need to change the things that lead to an "anybody but the TWU" mentality that lead to not one but two card drives to oust them and not throw out such pathetic arguements that are so easily turned around on them. How could they be so dumb as to mail out thousands of flyers criticizing the outsourcing of work to China when we do the same thing? Whats even worse is if you look deeper into it the only UAL work thats going to China is widebody work. Narrowbody work can only be outsourced domestically which I'm told, due to rising domestic MRO costs, is bringing narrowbody work back in house at UAL. Our narrowbodies can be shipped to China along with our widebodies.

So we have Overspeed criticizing both AMFA at SWA where they get $45/hr for allowing narrowbody OH -the only thing SWA has- that was always outsourced domestically, to go overseas, and criticizing UAL where they make $38/hr for allowing widebodies (but not narrowbodies) to go overseas when the deal he told us to accept allows AA to ship whatever they want, no limitations as to where or what type of work, anywhere they want to. The only limitation is "35% of maint spend subject to exclusions" as long as RR keeps TEASL, if RR terminates TEASL they can incraese the spend "accordingly". If labor rates are much cheaper overseas then the company would be able to outsource much more hours than they would be able to outsource if they were limited to Domestic outsourcing. So in other words the 35% of maint spend offers ZERO protection for OH. Just as I said all through Negotiations.

Clearly the membership wants some change. Trying to convince anyone that we need to stay the course we have taken since 2003 will not convince anyone to stay with the TWU. They need to change if they want to win back the membership, not mail out rediculous phamplets.

First thing would be send Videtich and Gless back to their boxes. Hey, they should feel as lucky as they say we should feel to be working under this contract right? They worked so hard art getting this thing put in place its only fair that they have the privilege of working under it.

My guess is both would try and jump into Management.

Then they need to put all Title II with Maint Locals. One of the legitimate greivances that mechanics have is that other work groups have a say in what is put in front of mechanics to vote on. Every A&P except Charlie Meyers out of STL voted against bringing that abomination of a deal back to the members.

Then they need to allow the mechanics elected representatives to rewite all the Council and Negotiating committee Bylaws and put them out for membership approval. We should not have non-mechanic Presidents voting on things such as removing the two year experience requirement for Line Maintenance either.

If we go to the IBT a Truck Driver, Baker or Zoo keeper (all noble professions but they have nothing to do with Aviation) could be making that decision for us.

Two pots calling each other black isnt going to sway anyone to stay with what we have. The members want change, and even if it means jumping into another black pot they will. Claiming that bottom of the industry wages, work rules and benefits is the way to go simply is not going to sell. Saying that the current structure where promoting people in the union who get voted out of office, therefore have a grudge against the very people they are supposed to represent, is a sound way to run a union is not going to sell. saying that the other choices are bad because they are allowing the employers to do what our contract allows AA to do, but where those employers have to compensate their mechanics better than we are compensated is not going to sell. Change sells, and if the TWU doesnt offer it the members will eventually go elsewhere.

 

[Overspeed]

So AA under the TWU has outsourced 54 777's and lets say 80 of the 100 AA's 757's......which sounds like worst numbers then the IBT's numbers at UAL, and they make $38 an hour $11k signing bonus 10 holidays, full pay for a sick day and double time, compared to what the TWU's contract is, and what it was for the past 10 years. That was a good article from the WSJ explaining the whole industry rather then the IBT screwed it's members. Even the TWU said it will lose 50% of it's base maint by 2017.

I don't believe a union can control what gets outsourced and what base gets closed out of BK or in BK, if you do then you have to say that the TWU closed AFW, MCI, DWT, SNA MSP, and outsourced the 777 and 757 heavy checks.

Firstly, AA does not outsource more than UA/CO. AA outsources 47 777-200s right now and 102 757s, that leaves the majority of the 608 airframes done in-house. UA and CO have a combined 6 lines in-house which if they were all HC lines would be capable of handling approximately 100 airframes in-house out of 700 airframes. That's a LOT more outsourcing. CO also outsources all their engine overhaul and AA does all but the GE90 in-house. Again UA outsources a lot more. The combined UA/CO outsourcing level per the DOL F41 is over 50% while AA stands at 25% and is capped at 35% (with some minor exceptions). The IBT UA/CO contract has no caps other than it cannot result in a direct layoff as a result.

AA will lose base maintenance work but not do to outsourcing like UA/CO. The new fleet types will drive down the overhaul work but when it recovers the TWU scope language protects future work unlike the IBT contract.

The TWU didn't close those locations, which AFW is still open with about 500 TAESL members, they were forced in to unfavorable language that allowed more outsourcing in BK. The language in the IBT agreement UA removed the AMFA caps in 2012 and that wasn't BK. The IBT promised the UA M&R that they would protect work but per the DOL numbers and the loss of the OSV grievance, they gave up more work without being under the threat of BK.

Read the UA AMFA and UA IAM contract then read the UA IBT contract. More money but more work outsourced under the IBT then under AMFA or the IAM. Over 1,000 lost their jobs for $38 and hour. The TWU negotiated that in the 2010 TA with no increase in outsourcing and under the threat of a possible BK filing. Hmmmmm...

 

[comatose]

Firstly, AA does not outsource more than UA/CO. AA outsources 47 777-200s right now and 102 757s, that leaves the majority of the 608 airframes done in-house. UA and CO have a combined 6 lines in-house which if they were all HC lines would be capable of handling approximately 100 airframes in-house out of 700 airframes. That's a LOT more outsourcing. CO also outsources all their engine overhaul and AA does all but the GE90 in-house. Again UA outsources a lot more. The combined UA/CO outsourcing level per the DOL F41 is over 50% while AA stands at 25% and is capped at 35% (with some minor exceptions). The IBT UA/CO contract has no caps other than it cannot result in a direct layoff as a result.

AA will lose base maintenance work but not do to outsourcing like UA/CO. The new fleet types will drive down the overhaul work but when it recovers the TWU scope language protects future work unlike the IBT contract.

The TWU didn't close those locations, which AFW is still open with about 500 TAESL members, they were forced in to unfavorable language that allowed more outsourcing in BK. The language in the IBT agreement UA removed the AMFA caps in 2012 and that wasn't BK. The IBT promised the UA M&R that they would protect work but per the DOL numbers and the loss of the OSV grievance, they gave up more work without being under the threat of BK.

Read the UA AMFA and UA IAM contract then read the UA IBT contract. More money but more work outsourced under the IBT then under AMFA or the IAM. Over 1,000 lost their jobs for $38 and hour. The TWU negotiated that in the 2010 TA with no increase in outsourcing and under the threat of a possible BK filing. Hmmmmm...

The year 2020 plan.
And will still be at 25% spend with all 319, 321, 787 work going elsewhere.
Company already stated no airbus or 787 parts will be stocked at TUL.
All 75 work gone, all 80 work gone, all 77 work gone.
Already dabbling away 76 and 73 work, but that's just a minor exception.

 

[737823]

The TWU negotiated that in the 2010 TA with no increase in outsourcing and under the threat of a possible BK filing. Hmmmmm...

You are kidding yourself if you think AA wouldn't have filed in Nov 2011 had the T/A from summer 2010 been ratified. This is one of many work groups we are talking about, negotiations with the pilots and F/As were going nowhere at that time, and the filing gave AA the unique opportunity to restructure other areas of the company (aircraft leases, unused facilities, terminate other obligations, etc). Perhaps M&R would be better off today had that T/A been ratified but it is disingenuous to imply AA filed because it didn't get passed.

Josh

 

[FWAAA]

I read somewhere that Pemco is also in BK. AA sure knows how to pick them.

PEMCO filed for Ch 11 protection in March, 2012, and emerged from Ch 11 on August 28, 2012:

http://www.theledger...29630?p=2&tc=pg

In March, PEMCO filed for bankruptcy protection, blaming the recession.

It got worse this summer. United informed PEMCO it no longer required its services. Those 474 jobs paid an average salary of $47,500 a year.

A restructured PEMCO officially emerged from bankruptcy on Aug. 28, owned by Avion Services Holdings, a holding company of Sun Capital Partners. Meehan said the company is still paying off its $12 million debt, and recently paid off its back rent at the airport. But it will close its Alabama facility in October and is trying to sell its Cincinnati operation.

Doug Parker, everybody's hero, likes PEMCO as well:

Pemco Upgrades US Airways Express to First Class

http://www.pemcoair....-firstclass.pdf

 

[Bob Owens]

The year 2020 plan.
And will still be at 25% spend with all 319, 321, 787 work going elsewhere.
Company already stated no airbus or 787 parts will be stocked at TUL.
All 75 work gone, all 80 work gone, all 77 work gone.
Already dabbling away 76 and 73 work, but that's just a minor exception.

Narrow-bodies make up the majority of both AA and UAs fleets, with the ability to send any aircraft any where AA will be able to reduce overall maint expense far more than UA or CAL, that means that even with the 35% cap, (plus exclusions) AA will be able to outsource as much work as United which is limited to outsourcing their much larger (than their wide-body fleet)narrow-body fleet domestically. And unlike UAL where they cant cut any heads as a result of outsourcing at AA they can lay off as many as they want and it can be directly due to increased outsourcing. AA has the largest order for new aircraft ever, and we are funding the means by which AA will eliminate our jobs. As the MD-80s go away so will the OH jobs. Overspin says that our language will force them to bring OH work back, what he leaves out is that between now and the time those aircraft push the spend above 35% new contracts will be negotiated where that language will most certainly disappear. This is what the Gless -Videtich team brought us to. Bottom of the industry wages, benefits and working conditions and the ability to lay off as many as they want while sending our work anywhere they want. They told us to give up job protection to save jobs, enough people were able to overcome the dummies who believed it the first time, but then these guys decided to buy off those who wanted to leave with an early out, just enough to get it to pass, now its safe to say that the majority of those who remain are not happy with the deal we were saddled with yet they still keep trying to spin things and make us believe that working for less, with the worst work rules, the worst paid time off, worst benefits and worst job protection language is the right way to go. Basically they use the same arguments that companies use to stay non-union to tell us to stay with the TWU. They are telling us that if we leave the TWU that the IBT will let jobs go to China, yet our contract already allows that, they criticize the IBT for claiming that they could open the contract when its pretty much been proven that they cant, well if they cant open the contract then how would bringing in the IBT allow the company to outsource more to China than the current deal allows?

The TWU International needs to send Gless, Videtich and all the other appointed stooges who have ruined our careers back to work under the terms they sold and change the way they do business at AA. We should have the same control over our contracts and Locals that Local 100 and other Locals in the TWU have.

 

[bigjets]

So lets get this straight, UAL farms out 76 heavy checks, and AA farms out over 180 heavy checks but yet the TWU saved the day?

Not to mention the fact that the new airplanes coming, the new fleet of Airbus's which are replacing the S80s and 767-200s are not going to be overhauled by TUL, is still a victory for the TWU!