Passenger hit gate agent after being denied boarding for refusal to wear a mask.

[swamt]

I smell lawsuits by employees getting harmed by these inconsiderates!

Not so sure about lawsuits, but the offender should be made to pay all medical expenses, pay a fine, and banned from flying. Since dealing with an airline employee at an airport all charges could harder by going the federal route with increased fines, time, probation etc...

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Things like this are going to happen when you put gate agents and flight attendants in the position of having to enforce mask policies.

Far better to just let them finish their itinerary and ban them after the fact. Don't turn the agents or FA's into punching bags when delivering bad news.

And please, don't lecture me about science, safety, etc... Last week, someone punched out a kid making minimum wage at a water park trying to enforce their policy, and he had to have surgery as a result. Someone got killed at a Walmart enforcing their policy.

It's simply not worth putting employees at risk of injury or death over a friggin' mask.

I don't now eolesen. Part of me thinks that it is too dangerous to escalate a situation in an aircraft environment.

The other part says that if the flight attendants can't keep control during the flight they should consider a career change.

Agreed. Agents and F/As didn’t sign up for this.

Are you sure?

Because I am not.

It seems to me that keeping control of the passengers is implied in their job. Remember you have to depend on these people in an emergency. If they can't control one belligerent passenger refusing to wear a mask how are they going to keep control of an aircraft full of people in a panic situation?

I would like to get jimntx point of view on this since he actually served as a flight attendant for an extended period of time. jimntx is it part of your job to keep control of passengers?

With the federal govt that we have you are not going to get any leadership from them. Understand trump believes this is a democrat hoax and does not understand that 165000 people have died or actually care that they have died.

As someone who was recently hospitalized in a COVID ward I can assure anyone it is not a hoax.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Not so sure about lawsuits, but the offender should be made to pay all medical expenses, pay a fine, and banned from flying. Since dealing with an airline employee at an airport all charges could harder by going the federal route with increased fines, time, probation etc...

She committed assault and should suffer the same consequences as anyone else who was charged with assault would.

As far as medical bills that is a civil matter the flight attendant will have to choose to pursue.

 

[swamt]

She committed assault and should suffer the same consequences as anyone else who was charged with assault would.

As far as medical bills that is a civil matter the flight attendant will have to choose to pursue.

Not fully correct. I understand what you mean about a civil matter between aggressor and victim. I have watched a many court cases in the past that included retribution payments being ordered by the courts that does in fact go to the victims to help pay medical bills and other cost related to crime that was committed. Retribution payments are also different than court ordered fines and assessments set.
Usually the final step after it is all over with and medical attention is no longer needed then the victims will or will not file the civil suit to reclaim any cost over and above what the courts assessed plus with added pain and suffering. Depending on how much pain and suffering the average claim for it is usually 3-4 times the full amount of medical cost. Now these are averages in Texas, could be different elsewhere.

 

[jimntx]

I don't now eolesen. Part of me thinks that it is too dangerous to escalate a situation in an aircraft environment.

The other part says that if the flight attendants can't keep control during the flight they should consider a career change.

Are you sure?

Because I am not.

It seems to me that keeping control of the passengers is implied in their job. Remember you have to depend on these people in an emergency. If they can't control one belligerent passenger refusing to wear a mask how are they going to keep control of an aircraft full of people in a panic situation?

I would like to get jimntx point of view on this since he actually served as a flight attendant for an extended period of time. jimntx is it part of your job to keep control of passengers?

As someone who was recently hospitalized in a COVID ward I can assure anyone it is not a hoax.

First off, hope you are feeling better. As far as "controlling the passengers"...It's not that cut and dried. As flight attendants we are told to persuade, not enforce when it comes to compliance with Federal Air Regulations (FARs). Using the flight attendant/gate agent as a boxing target is a stated violation of an FAR.

persuade, verb. cause (someone) to do something through reasoning or argument. Assumes that reasoning would always work. In theory the control lies with the pilot. He/she can remove any passenger from the flight for any reason. You would be surprised at how many pilots take (what I call) the flight supervisor position. Namely, "What could you have done differently to get the passenger to comply and not hit you? You should have managed this situation better." (Said to a 5'2" flight attendant who has been struck by a 6'4", 250 pound jerk.)

If it gets physical, the flight attendant is allowed to solicit help from other passengers. Here again, an assumption that the other passengers are the least bit interested in engaging that 6'4" irate goon.

To be fair to pilots, there are also a large number of flight attendants who think removal from the flight should be the first solution, not the last.

But, if it comes to removal from the aircraft, most pilots don't want to be the bad guy. (It also involves a lot of paperwork.)

See what I mean by "it's not that cut and dried." Flight attendants are back there with little to no backup from flight supervisors or other management. And, there is almost always at least 1 manager who wasn't there, but knows a way to manage the situation and can start a conversation with the flight attendant with the phrase, "You should have (fill in the blank.)

As far as controlling passengers in an emergency. If the lead flight attendant gets on the PA and says "Ladies and gentleman I need your attention now. Return to your seats and fasten your seatbelts. The captain has informed me that we have lost an engine and he has begun an emergency landing procedure." Things get very quiet and obedient in the cabin."

Overall it's kind of like the old sarcastic saying..."We have done so much with so little for so long that we can now do everything with nothing."

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Not fully correct. I understand what you mean about a civil matter between aggressor and victim. I have watched a many court cases in the past that included retribution payments being ordered by the courts that does in fact go to the victims to help pay medical bills and other cost related to crime that was committed. Retribution payments are also different than court ordered fines and assessments set.
Usually the final step after it is all over with and medical attention is no longer needed then the victims will or will not file the civil suit to reclaim any cost over and above what the courts assessed plus with added pain and suffering. Depending on how much pain and suffering the average claim for it is usually 3-4 times the full amount of medical cost. Now these are averages in Texas, could be different elsewhere.

You know you are right about me being wrong but, not for the reason you stated.

She was at work so would be covered by workman's comp however I suppose the AIRLINE may decide to sue her ass.

I suppose the flight attendant could come after her to but I am not sure on that scenario.

I am not very knowledgeable about such things as far as workplace violence involving customers and liability.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/46503

An individual in an area within a commercial service airport in the United States who, by assaulting a Federal, airport, orair carrier employee who has security duties within the airport, interferes with the performance of the duties of the employee or lessens the ability of the employee to perform those duties, shall be fined under title 18, imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both. If the individual used a dangerous weapon in committing the assault or interference, the individual may be imprisoned for any term of years or life imprisonment.

(Added Pub. L. 107–71, title I, § 114(a), Nov. 19, 2001, 115 Stat. 623.)
https://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-19...ect=cwa-collective-briefing-september-24-2019

See that is what I thought, that flight attendants were federally protected.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

You would be surprised at how many pilots take (what I call) the flight supervisor position. Namely, "What could you have done differently to get the passenger to comply and not hit you? You should have managed this situation better." (Said to a 5'2" flight attendant who has been struck by a 6'4", 250 pound jerk.)

And, there is almost always at least 1 manager who wasn't there, but knows a way to manage the situation and can start a conversation with the flight attendant with the phrase, "You should have (fill in the blank.)

Yeah, I have ran into those jerkoffs a few times in my career. The best way to deal with that BS is to NEVER accept blame (The whole tactic of asking what YOU could have done differently is really just framing an accusation of blame and compliance by answering is exactly what they want) and run their asses in a logic circle until you tire them out. They soon get frustrated enough and come to the realization to shut their f'ing mouth and end the conversation. They get the point..... eventually. If that does not work just deflect and dodge, waste their time, just like they are wasting yours.

American Airlines treats their employees like a bunch of children. Like sending them to time and attendance for "correction" every time someone uses sick time like they are a bunch of damn children being sent to the principal's office. It's ridiculous and honestly from my perspective it is borderline harassment. One of the contributing factors of why I got the hell out of that place. Then again that was probably the point wasn't it?

 

[jimntx]

See that is what I thought, that flight attendants were federally protected.

However, here again is the assumption that the flight attendant is free to act on his/her own behalf. I know of at least 2 occasions where a f/a wanted to file charges on a passenger (Executive Platinum, no doubt) and was stopped by management. Basically the flight attendant was told (not in so many words) that filing the claim would be the end of the f/a's job. The f/a union does not seem to be organized to help in such situations.

 

[dfw gen]

However, here again is the assumption that the flight attendant is free to act on his/her own behalf. I know of at least 2 occasions where a f/a wanted to file charges on a passenger (Executive Platinum, no doubt) and was stopped by management. Basically the flight attendant was told (not in so many words) that filing the claim would be the end of the f/a's job. The f/a union does not seem to be organized to help in such situations.

Protected? When your at 30,000 feet with an irate passenger, how much protection do you feel like you actually have?
Kind of like defunding the police....

 

[swamt]

You know you are right about me being wrong but, not for the reason you stated.

She was at work so would be covered by workman's comp however I suppose the AIRLINE may decide to sue her ass.

I suppose the flight attendant could come after her to but I am not sure on that scenario.

I am not very knowledgeable about such things as far as workplace violence involving customers and liability.

I was explaining civil IF she wanted to further take it on her own (and she still can) But like I posted before that post (#16) I said it should go federal since F/A and or airport employee is involved.
As john-john posted, by going Federal it will get longer sentences, time and probation. Also , as he stated too, IF he used any kind of weapon (not just his hands, UNLESS he is a certified level fighter of some sort) then the sentence, time, and probation will get even longer.
Any crimes committed on aircraft, in airports, and even against airport or airline employees are usually always automatic federal cases. Very minor things are usually handles civilly.
Sorry bout the confusion, Maybe I should have put those two postings together when I gave the example...

#16

Not so sure about lawsuits, but the offender should be made to pay all medical expenses, pay a fine, and banned from flying. Since dealing with an airline employee at an airport all charges could harder by going the federal route with increased fines, time, probation etc...

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

However, here again is the assumption that the flight attendant is free to act on his/her own behalf. I know of at least 2 occasions where a f/a wanted to file charges on a passenger (Executive Platinum, no doubt) and was stopped by management. Basically the flight attendant was told (not in so many words) that filing the claim would be the end of the f/a's job. The f/a union does not seem to be organized to help in such situations.

Pathetic.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I was explaining civil IF she wanted to further take it on her own (and she still can) But like I posted before that post (#16) I said it should go federal since F/A and or airport employee is involved.
As john-john posted, by going Federal it will get longer sentences, time and probation. Also , as he stated too, IF he used any kind of weapon (not just his hands, UNLESS he is a certified level fighter of some sort) then the sentence, time, and probation will get even longer.
Any crimes committed on aircraft, in airports, and even against airport or airline employees are usually always automatic federal cases. Very minor things are usually handles civilly.
Sorry bout the confusion, Maybe I should have put those two postings together when I gave the example...

#16

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[swamt]

Thank you for the clarification.

Welcome.

 

[swamt]

Maybe the passengers should be punching AA in the mouth for hoarding their refunds.
C'mon AA, have a heart and give some refunds. Not saying all of it, but my God be compassionate a little huh??? Keep 10% for the cost spent so far, but to keep the full amount during a crisis?? C'mon AA, WTFU!!! At least this way, AA will help filter the passenger coming back over to my airline as well as others. Way to go yet again AA...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/american-airlines-seeks-toss-covid-141203293.html