Pay Raises

[LukeAisleWalker]

Luke, you wouldn't be calling a group of people who believe differently than you a bad name would you? That would be discrimination. You should know better.

I'm not sure what you mean by "bad name." If you mean "hypocrite", then yes as their actions don't mirror their beliefs. That was all I was getting at.
Other than that, of course everyone is entitled to their own opinions. That goes without saying-- but come on...ever hear the old addage "put your money where your mouth is?"

 

[bullterrier]

I'm not sure what you mean by "bad name." If you mean "hypocrite", then yes as their actions don't mirror their beliefs. That was all I was getting at.
Other than that, of course everyone is entitled to their own opinions. That goes without saying-- but come on...ever hear the old addage "put your money where your mouth is?"

You might want to do some research on what tea bagging is, lol. The far left gave the Tea party members that name but it has a hidden meaning. I'm personally not a member but I do get their literature. I also listen to Fox and MSNBC so I get both closed minded views. Ok, well this isn't a political discussion. Sorry for getting off subject.

 

[Airlinelifer]

"Great Lengths" ? so dramatic lol....so easy to draw you out....
this is what I stated:
The NMB DID investigate and found nothing.
I think this link will also show the Lengths the AFA will go for a Yes vote.
Lots of heresay by the AFA.
For the REAL story read here:

Read Harry Hoglander's dissent
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=3963...&topic=6869

 

[mayor]

All companies plan on giving raises...They exited bankruptcy April 30, 2007. What is your point?

As to your previous question, Jim answered it.

All collective bargaining agreements have a pay schedule that sets out the minimum rate of pay for employees in different classifications. As long as the company increases the pay proportionally across the spectrum, the union does not complain.

Your hatred of unions is obviously fed by your ignorance of how they operate and how the collective bargaining process works.

What is funny (and sad) is that you have been enjoying the benefits of union wages for some time now if you work for any major airline, whether you are covered by a CBA or not.

I believe that his point is this. Contrary to your opinion, this is not some big conspiracy to "bribe" the DL people as management promised that pay raises would come. This announcement was indeed made right after DL emerged from BK. I guess you think they had a crystal ball and could see the merger and union representation issues coming up and so they planned this "bribe".

 

[mayor]

Oh, sure thing. As soon as the Tea Baggers who love to rail against "Big Brother" and "Gov't meddling in Healthcare" give back their Social Security payments and their Medicare payments.
Oh, and closer to "home", when the anti-union employees who defend Delta's disintegration of retirement benefits including the frozen pension, the recent freeze on lump-sum cash balance payments and the elimination of the Level Income Option..you know, the ones who say we shouldn't even be depending on Delta for our retirement? When they turn down what pension they DO receive and donate it to a worthwhile charity, then we have a DEAL !!!

I always hear this about "paying back your Social Security payments", but if I recall, I paid INTO that all these years and I'm sure that some of my income taxes, over the years, has helped pay for my Medicare (which I don't get yet).

 

[mayor]

...defending them? What them? Who's them? I defend the decision to say yes, I defend the decision to say no. I also feel that if you don't care enough to vote either way, then you just don't care. And if you don't care, YOU DON'T COUNT!
I'm amazed. In 1982, the DL employees raised $30 million in payroll deductions to purchase a 767, known as the Spirit of Delta. In 2006, once again the DL employees listened to managements call to thwart a hostile take-over by US Airways by rallies, informationals, etc.. But in 2010, you find it difficult to even pick up a phone, enter your PIN, and vote no.

The wonders never cease...

Well, since the methods of voting have changed (phone/internet) perhaps it makes sense to change the rules. In the past, I was involved in two different union drives by the TWU to organize the DL ramp. At that time the voting was by paper ballot, which came in the mail to your home. Both times, the TWU failed, miserably in their attempt to organize us.

 

[mayor]

''It's a classic win-win situation,'' he said in a telephone interview yesterday. ''They got a deal that pretty largely conforms with the portfolio of items that they wanted. And the deal helps the company.''


"Shut up, please! Please be quiet," Beatty told Delta lawyer Jack Gallagher during a tense exchange over whether pay cuts already imposed on non-pilots should be a factor in whether tovoid the pilots' contract."We are asking for the consideration of the rights of 44,000 people," Gallagher loudlycountered, adding later that "your remarks indicate your leaning.""Don't put that burden on me. The company made that decision," Beatty replied.

Dl management sided with the pilots when they rewarded them an industry leading 2000 contract protesting that it is a "Win, win" for the company, but quickly jumped to the non-union side when it was time to abrogate the contract in bankruptcy court.

Where does the non-union, non-pilot, non-contract Delta employee fit in all of this?

When they were awarded that overblown contract in 2000, they more or less had DL over a barrel. I don't think it was all that long after they got the contract that DL realized how stupid it really was. DL started to lose money, hand over fist and I think that particular contract had alot to do with that. Of course, then 9/11 happened and accelerated what was already happening.

Until the BK, the pilots never had to give up anything in their contracts, whereas most everyone else sacrificed for the company even before that. I think ACS went a good 10 years without a pay raise, while the pilots kept getting theirs, no matter what it was doing to the company.

 

[Don Smith]

Or retract them before buddy. October is a long way off.

Good on DL for finally coming through with what they promised. Now let's hope that they don't retract them shortly thereafter.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Just curious, Is there a pay difference between NW and DL A&P's, FA's and rampers?

 

[FWAAA]

.Until the BK, the pilots never had to give up anything in their contracts, whereas most everyone else sacrificed for the company even before that. I think ACS went a good 10 years without a pay raise, while the pilots kept getting theirs, no matter what it was doing to the company.

Actually, the DL pilots gave up a billion dollars in concessions in November, 2004, about 11 months before the bankruptcy, in an attempt to try to help keep DL from filing Ch 11; the concessions were 32.5%:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/11/business/12cnd-delta.html

Had they agreed to cuts a year or two earlier, DL might have avoided Ch11 (as did AMR) and the pilot pensions might not have been terminated. They (and the UA pilots) were successful at choking the goose.

 

[ReadyNow]

Like everything else, wages are a function of supply and demand. Supply for pilots/FA and A and P's is high, demand is low so wages will stagnate. The union approach is to try and articifically restrict demand thru work rules and exclusive contracts.

 

[john john]

Like everything else, wages are a function of supply and demand. Supply for pilots/FA and A and P's is high, demand is low so wages will stagnate. The union approach is to try and articifically restrict demand thru work rules and exclusive contracts.

Just like corporate executives

 

[bagboy]

Just like corporate executives

The board could move to have some real cost saving by farming out much of Delta's management. How hard is it to run a company and lose money, year after year. They say that they need the top pay to retain the talent. Well, the people have paid for it, still no talent.

 

[Airlinelifer]

mayor


When they were awarded that overblown contract in 2000, they more or less had DL over a barrel. I don't think it was all that long after they got the contract that DL realized how stupid it really was. DL started to lose money, hand over fist and I think that particular contract had alot to do with that. Of course, then 9/11 happened and accelerated what was already happening.

Until the BK, the pilots never had to give up anything in their contracts, whereas most everyone else sacrificed for the company even before that. I think ACS went a good 10 years without a pay raise, while the pilots kept getting theirs, no matter what it was doing to the company.

___________________________________________________________________

"You don't want to be the one group that's not unionized because the wage increases and work rules that go for the unionized group will be taken from the nonunion group," said Gary Chaison, professor of labor relations at Clark University.

 

[john john]

mayor


When they were awarded that overblown contract in 2000, they more or less had DL over a barrel. I don't think it was all that long after they got the contract that DL realized how stupid it really was. DL started to lose money, hand over fist and I think that particular contract had alot to do with that. Of course, then 9/11 happened and accelerated what was already happening.

Until the BK, the pilots never had to give up anything in their contracts, whereas most everyone else sacrificed for the company even before that. I think ACS went a good 10 years without a pay raise, while the pilots kept getting theirs, no matter what it was doing to the company.

___________________________________________________________________

"You don't want to be the one group that's not unionized because the wage increases and work rules that go for the unionized group will be taken from the nonunion group," said Gary Chaison, professor of labor relations at Clark University.

I can agree and have witness to that.
You have pilots on this form that are antiunion except for their own. I wonder why?