Pensions Are Already Underfunded by $14.1 billion
- Thread starter 700UW
- Start date
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Kev3188
Veteran
We've agreed on things before, hopefully it will only become a more regular occurrence going forward. I enjoy reading your posts I think you are knowledgeable and provide a good perspective here. We may disagree on things but its still good to discuss, engage, and educate each other.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle
Perhaps but no matter how you or anyone else spins it it's not a good thing for organized labor. On Tuesday we also had voters in places like San Jose and San Diego approve measure that limited benefits and requiring new hires to contribute to 401k rather than DB plan. I know this is the WSJ, but hopefully you'll find the reporting articulate and objective:
http://online.wsj.co...0555194260.html
Josh
Sure some do but most people in the public sector enjoy job protections, retirement plans and healthcare benefits well beyond what is normal or appropriate.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
Josh,
I enjoy reading and debating Kev as well... he has an ability to keep on task w/ the conversation despite the noise around....
Eric,
It is perfectly acceptable to have a second ID... The issue is that you made a ROYAL charade over the fact that I was doing exactly what the board allowed - even though you had already done the exact same thing. That is flat out hypocrisy but it typifies exactly what our ongoing spat has been about.
You wanted to make a big deal about outing me in the interest of full disclosure despite the fact that you have been using a 2[sup]nd[/sup] ID for years so you could have a private persona – and I knew that. It is hypocritical for you to expect others to be fully open when you weren’t and aren’t.
Spare us your list of problems …. Your only problem is that can't resolve the problem on this board. You continue to use threats to out me which clearly haven't worked so far. Given that I could just as easily take this discussion off the board, you have as much or more to lose by carrying out your threats.
The common sense approach is to be honest or at least not accuse someone of the same things you are doing. You accuse me of deflection but the simple fact is that NO ONE ELSE on this forum works as hard to defend themselves while trashing someone else using the same techniques of which you accuse them.
Drop the revenge and learn how to admit you are wrong.....it will take you a long ways in life.
Nobody is asking you to divulge your PMs. I am asking you to have the integrity to reveal your own second ID since you have no problem outing other people’s private information and 2[sup]nd[/sup] IDs… we'll be waiting but won't hold our breath for too long.
If you’re not at AA anymore, then why do you need to maintain a 2[sup]nd[/sup] ID?
FWA,
Since using two IDs is permissible under the rules of this board and you are one of those serial red button pushers who uses the vast majority of your negative votes to vote against me, regardless of the subject, then let if be fully known that Spectator is indeed a sidekick who assists in countering your red button pushing….
Since it is perfectly obvious that the whole reason why the handful of you even care about the 2[sup]nd[/sup] ID is because it frustrates your ability to run down my reputation score – which you can then use to argue that you have more “reputation” than me…. And not surprisingly, the handful of you all vote for each comment each other makes against me while voting against my own comments highlights that the voting system is a complete farce and a popularity contest.
Bringing the reality of what is going on to the forefront particularly with respect to you and your alliance simply demonstrates why I use my 2[sup]nd[/sup] ID.
Speaking of reputation, I would like to ask if you have bailed on your conviction developed over years on this forum and others that AA will survive as an independent airline (you are referring to WHEN AA and US merge in your discussions regarding merged routes)?
DO you really believe that – and why did you spend so much time arguing the point of how strong AA was AGAINST ME when now I am the one who was right about that AA would end up in BK and I now argue that AA will survive as an independent airline while you apparently are bailing out.
Is it more important to you to win the favor of your fellow members on this board who largely are against AA mgmt than to stand up for what you believed to be the case for years – and which is still the most likely outcome?
Now to Kev,
No, there are no set rules for how the post voting system should be used... most things on the internet regarding social behavior are still evolving... so it is with this issue which is why I am shining the light on the topic and also forcing some people to come out in the open.
If 75% or more of someone's post votes are for or against one person, then there is every reason for the question to be asked what is going on, don't you think?
If someone doesn't even post but spends the majority of their votes for/against one person, then the question should be raised or the identities highlighted, don't you think?
-----
Now returning to the issues of government pensions – which is closely tied to the pension discussion here with DL.
You would like to paint WI as a state that has suffered under Walker… but the simple reality is that WI has above average income for the US and its average income looks even better relative to its cost of living. WI is a state with a healthy balanced economy – industrial/manufacturing, farming, services – that is strong because the voters of WI are adapting to the realities of the changing global economy and doing it as good or better than the US.
In fact, the Bureau of Labor Statistics says that WI has experienced a statistically significant DECLINE in its unemployment rate over the past year – and has an unemployment rate that is ALREADY below average.
WI also shares in a general improvement in the economy in several states in the Midwest, including MN, IA, and NE.
http://www.missourieconomy.org/indicators/cost_of_living/index.stm
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/statemedian/
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/laus.nr0.htm
WI residents have it good and they should be proud of what they have instead of trying to argue how bad off they are because someone with different values is leading the state.
The WI state budget is in fact in better shape than the budget in many states. Sadly many governments AND BUSINESES AND INDIVIDUALS are only servicing their debt.
WI voters realize that economic realities are changing and they aren’t willing to subsidize ideologies with their tax dollars if there isn’t economic value to do so. The simple fact is that union representation in the US has slipped so low and it is now so heavily concentrated in the public sector that it was a given that what Walker did would come to pass – because one group of citizens WERE receiving substantially better benefits than the average for American workers – and WI voters, like everyone else, are not willing to enrich someone else at their own expense.
Got data to show that non-farming small businesses in WI have suffered more than large corporations? And if you want to throw in farming, compare WI’s farming economy to other states and connect how WI is faring based on WI state policies.
It is precisely because WI’s economy is adapting but isn’t paying down debt why it is important to talk about DL’s efforts at debt reduction relative to its pension obligations, including buying as many used aircraft as possible to reduce debt for new aircraft is different not only from the industry but also from much of western society, including governments.
--
Finally, it is perfectly ok for you or anyone else to challenge me including what I say about DL or any other company. We all understand your loyalty for organized labor and for NW, but times change… I get that you don’t like someone pointing out the successes of a company that took away what you cherished…. But it would be nice if you would be willing to accept that I was right in saying that DL would integrate NW as well as it has done and with a far better track record than most mergers in the industry; that it would not disproportionately target NW people, hubs or routes anymore than it has PMDL (which has also shrunk) in corporate downsizing efforts and the typical merger consolidation process which meant that many MSP functions and jobs would move to ATL (that is why MN had the loan with NW in place and why DL chose to pay it off early); that DL would succeed in its labor integration strategies and do it based on the support of a majority of the combined workforce; and that DL would build on the strengths of the merger to become one of the financially strongest and largest airlines in the US and the world.
That reality is nothing personal between me and you – it’s just that I’ve followed DL and the airline industry for decades and know what makes each airline work and what doesn’t… and also know how DL has been able to overcome industry challenges which have caused their competitors to stumble – and why DL is now capitalizing on its own strengths which are coincidentally some of its competitors’ weaknesses.
That is not blind optimism… it is an honest assessment – and it becomes more apparent each and every day as DL implements strategies that put more and more distance between DL and its competitors.
And the more people try to argue my bias and discredit my reputation, the more apparent it becomes who has the bias and who is unable to speak with accuracy about what is going on in the airline industry.
I enjoy reading and debating Kev as well... he has an ability to keep on task w/ the conversation despite the noise around....
Eric,
It is perfectly acceptable to have a second ID... The issue is that you made a ROYAL charade over the fact that I was doing exactly what the board allowed - even though you had already done the exact same thing. That is flat out hypocrisy but it typifies exactly what our ongoing spat has been about.
You wanted to make a big deal about outing me in the interest of full disclosure despite the fact that you have been using a 2[sup]nd[/sup] ID for years so you could have a private persona – and I knew that. It is hypocritical for you to expect others to be fully open when you weren’t and aren’t.
Spare us your list of problems …. Your only problem is that can't resolve the problem on this board. You continue to use threats to out me which clearly haven't worked so far. Given that I could just as easily take this discussion off the board, you have as much or more to lose by carrying out your threats.
The common sense approach is to be honest or at least not accuse someone of the same things you are doing. You accuse me of deflection but the simple fact is that NO ONE ELSE on this forum works as hard to defend themselves while trashing someone else using the same techniques of which you accuse them.
Drop the revenge and learn how to admit you are wrong.....it will take you a long ways in life.
Nobody is asking you to divulge your PMs. I am asking you to have the integrity to reveal your own second ID since you have no problem outing other people’s private information and 2[sup]nd[/sup] IDs… we'll be waiting but won't hold our breath for too long.
If you’re not at AA anymore, then why do you need to maintain a 2[sup]nd[/sup] ID?
FWA,
Since using two IDs is permissible under the rules of this board and you are one of those serial red button pushers who uses the vast majority of your negative votes to vote against me, regardless of the subject, then let if be fully known that Spectator is indeed a sidekick who assists in countering your red button pushing….
Since it is perfectly obvious that the whole reason why the handful of you even care about the 2[sup]nd[/sup] ID is because it frustrates your ability to run down my reputation score – which you can then use to argue that you have more “reputation” than me…. And not surprisingly, the handful of you all vote for each comment each other makes against me while voting against my own comments highlights that the voting system is a complete farce and a popularity contest.
Bringing the reality of what is going on to the forefront particularly with respect to you and your alliance simply demonstrates why I use my 2[sup]nd[/sup] ID.
Speaking of reputation, I would like to ask if you have bailed on your conviction developed over years on this forum and others that AA will survive as an independent airline (you are referring to WHEN AA and US merge in your discussions regarding merged routes)?
DO you really believe that – and why did you spend so much time arguing the point of how strong AA was AGAINST ME when now I am the one who was right about that AA would end up in BK and I now argue that AA will survive as an independent airline while you apparently are bailing out.
Is it more important to you to win the favor of your fellow members on this board who largely are against AA mgmt than to stand up for what you believed to be the case for years – and which is still the most likely outcome?
Now to Kev,
No, there are no set rules for how the post voting system should be used... most things on the internet regarding social behavior are still evolving... so it is with this issue which is why I am shining the light on the topic and also forcing some people to come out in the open.
If 75% or more of someone's post votes are for or against one person, then there is every reason for the question to be asked what is going on, don't you think?
If someone doesn't even post but spends the majority of their votes for/against one person, then the question should be raised or the identities highlighted, don't you think?
-----
Now returning to the issues of government pensions – which is closely tied to the pension discussion here with DL.
You would like to paint WI as a state that has suffered under Walker… but the simple reality is that WI has above average income for the US and its average income looks even better relative to its cost of living. WI is a state with a healthy balanced economy – industrial/manufacturing, farming, services – that is strong because the voters of WI are adapting to the realities of the changing global economy and doing it as good or better than the US.
In fact, the Bureau of Labor Statistics says that WI has experienced a statistically significant DECLINE in its unemployment rate over the past year – and has an unemployment rate that is ALREADY below average.
WI also shares in a general improvement in the economy in several states in the Midwest, including MN, IA, and NE.
http://www.missourieconomy.org/indicators/cost_of_living/index.stm
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/statemedian/
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/laus.nr0.htm
WI residents have it good and they should be proud of what they have instead of trying to argue how bad off they are because someone with different values is leading the state.
The WI state budget is in fact in better shape than the budget in many states. Sadly many governments AND BUSINESES AND INDIVIDUALS are only servicing their debt.
WI voters realize that economic realities are changing and they aren’t willing to subsidize ideologies with their tax dollars if there isn’t economic value to do so. The simple fact is that union representation in the US has slipped so low and it is now so heavily concentrated in the public sector that it was a given that what Walker did would come to pass – because one group of citizens WERE receiving substantially better benefits than the average for American workers – and WI voters, like everyone else, are not willing to enrich someone else at their own expense.
Got data to show that non-farming small businesses in WI have suffered more than large corporations? And if you want to throw in farming, compare WI’s farming economy to other states and connect how WI is faring based on WI state policies.
It is precisely because WI’s economy is adapting but isn’t paying down debt why it is important to talk about DL’s efforts at debt reduction relative to its pension obligations, including buying as many used aircraft as possible to reduce debt for new aircraft is different not only from the industry but also from much of western society, including governments.
--
Finally, it is perfectly ok for you or anyone else to challenge me including what I say about DL or any other company. We all understand your loyalty for organized labor and for NW, but times change… I get that you don’t like someone pointing out the successes of a company that took away what you cherished…. But it would be nice if you would be willing to accept that I was right in saying that DL would integrate NW as well as it has done and with a far better track record than most mergers in the industry; that it would not disproportionately target NW people, hubs or routes anymore than it has PMDL (which has also shrunk) in corporate downsizing efforts and the typical merger consolidation process which meant that many MSP functions and jobs would move to ATL (that is why MN had the loan with NW in place and why DL chose to pay it off early); that DL would succeed in its labor integration strategies and do it based on the support of a majority of the combined workforce; and that DL would build on the strengths of the merger to become one of the financially strongest and largest airlines in the US and the world.
That reality is nothing personal between me and you – it’s just that I’ve followed DL and the airline industry for decades and know what makes each airline work and what doesn’t… and also know how DL has been able to overcome industry challenges which have caused their competitors to stumble – and why DL is now capitalizing on its own strengths which are coincidentally some of its competitors’ weaknesses.
That is not blind optimism… it is an honest assessment – and it becomes more apparent each and every day as DL implements strategies that put more and more distance between DL and its competitors.
And the more people try to argue my bias and discredit my reputation, the more apparent it becomes who has the bias and who is unable to speak with accuracy about what is going on in the airline industry.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,988
- 9,428
I didn't say I was using a second ID here -- you've assumed I was because I'd said I'd used one in the past.
My second ID was over on PlaneBusiness, where I was a moderator and my pseudonym was well known to AA Corp Comm. What it was is no longer relevant, since the boards died when Holly's web server blew up the week before Hurricane Katrina.
I did post on USAviation under the the name "Former Moderator" up until 2006, at which point I started using my real name.
Ah, so you admit to violating the board's rules?
This is where you're wrong, [edited].
Using "sidekicks" violates two different forum rules/policies. First, the admins purposely disabled the ability to vote on your own posts. Second, the admins established quotas for how many votes each person could have per day.
By using the sidekick, you are deliberately bypassing both business rules/policies.
To me, it's no different than registering your dog to vote, or mailing in absentee ballots for dead relatives.
Has your "sidekick" Spectator started posting?.... I must have missed that. I'm sure you'll have some great exchanges.
Kev3188
Veteran
Nope.
It has, and it will.
Not sure what alternate reality you're in, but it is anything but healthy. Balanced? Maybe.
The BLS doesn't factor in those who have either stopped looking for work, or are underemployed. The unemployment picture in WI is not rosy at all.
No, they're fighting because they know how good the state has been, and how good it can be again. There are a lot of social issues at play as well, but hey, if you want to stand with a man who thinks equal pay for equal work is unnecessary, go right ahead. Same if you think a woman's "lady business" isn't an issue between her and her doctor, but rather between her and the state.
You're a numbers guy, right? Do you think that Walker's selling of state assets in no-bid sales is an example of "how good things are?"
Like to hunt? Might not be able to if his plan to privatize state land comes into play
Value education? When you stand with Walker, you're okay with 73% of districts laying people off. His magical "toolkit" isn't working. But hey, why should they fight, right?
Fan of the environment? Walker is too. In fact, he's so into it, he's stripped clean water regulations for many cities. That means those people who should "be proud instead of arguing" may not have access to clean water, nor will their kids. That's not even counting the tourism industry, and it's reliance on lakes. He also wanted to repeal recycling laws, until it was pointed out that it'd actually cost more to haul it as garbage instead.
Brilliant.
And that doesn't even touch on his absolute contempt for state law or 1st amendment rights. Remember, this is a guy who was going to call the National Guard out on his own constituents, and who gave serious thought to planting agent provocateurs into the uprising. He only stopped when he wondered how it'd play politically.
But yeah, they should just be happy.
The "ideologies" people are fighting for are democracy, freedom to peaceably assemble, and equal rights. You really want to advocate against that? Be my guest.
You're joking right? Do I really need to explain to you what happens when a family's discretionary income is cut? Do I really need to explain things like a multiplier? I suspect you're just being purposely obtuse.
Fishing for compliments is poor form.
When this merger goes anywhere near as smoothly on the ACS side as you'd like to think, I'll be sure to let you know. So far, it's been a big bag of suck.
Project Visine is very much alive and well.
Translation: "I know better than you, boy"
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
Eric,
I appreciate your candor in painting your innocence but it doesn’t justify or explain why you attempted to out me – which accomplished nothing except have you confess your guilt in that action online – or why you are so fixated on someone else’s reputation score.
The simple fact is that you couldn’t understand the rules of this forum and have continually attempted to remake into your liking , again without success.
The simple fact is that the forum rules are and always have been that it outing someone’s identity IS NOT permitted and that the use of an additional ID IS permitted.
I have played by those rules; you can’t accept them and have done everything in your power to make it clear that you haven’t gotten your way.
Your inability to grasp those fundamentals and live within them and succeed says mountains about you and very little about me.
Remember, I don’t really care about the reputation score other than to point out that it is a farce and a popularity contest – and don’t mind noting who is so consumed with trying to get even that they now push red buttons solely out of instinct.
Figure out how to debate the topics in which you participate and play within the rules and you’ll be fine.
More importantly, we’ll get along fine in our participation on this forum.
Kev,
We can differ on the voting system… won’t be the first or last thing on which we disagree. If it makes you feel better pushing red buttons, go for it. Not sure what you get out of it though.
I never said that I support everything that Walker stands for. I didn’t say that modern government, either in WI or anywhere else is truly protecting the right interests.
I have said that the majority of the citizens there do not agree with the total package of how the state is being run. They have voted for Walker and his policies not once, but twice in 2 years. Not sure that any US governor in history has ever faced 2 elections that close together. IIRC, he was also the first US governor to survive a recall election which pretty well says that all of the noise that was made really didn’t resonate with the desires of the citizenry of WI.
You admit you are to the left of center… I presume you have figured out that in a democracy, you will find it hard to be satisfied with the governments under which you have to live. How you learn to live with that dissonance is up to you – but I for one would be interested in hearing how you do it.
The world needs idealistic people like you who are committed to making the world a better place and not just settling for the status quo or slightly better. Figuring out to make it is a lot harder…. Regardless of what you think of it, I still think you should get a lot more involved in politics and in making what you believe become reality. I have a lot more respect for people who make their vision of the world come true, regardless of whether that world is built on values I agree with, than I do listening to the best idealists describe their view of the world while doing nothing but criticizing the world that now exists.
Make a difference in the world, Kevin. You’ve got everything you need to do it.
Delta is not much different. The world moved on with the DL/NW merger. You didn’t get a chance to vote on the merger… the NW board made the decision to sell out. Good, bad, or indifferent, it is your world now. Figuring out to succeed in it and make it work. If you want to invest your energy in making it a better place, do so. If you don’t, then just go to work, put in your 8 ½ hours and go home – just don’t complain because it isn’t what you want unless your willing to make a difference to change it.
Delta is not the company it once was. But neither is my hometown, the USA, or the world. Change happens and it is not necessarily good. The key to success is figuring out how to win in the midst of what is given you.
All of us get a chance to shape our small part of the world. Don’t miss the opportunity to make your corner the best little corner on the planet.
As much as you might like to think I look down on you, I absolutely do not. Such a view is based on your perception, not the message I have sent.
Succeed within the world you live – and know there are a lot of people, me included, who are genuinely interested in seeing you be the best person you can be in every realm of your life.
Eric,
I appreciate your candor in painting your innocence but it doesn’t justify or explain why you attempted to out me – which accomplished nothing except have you confess your guilt in that action online – or why you are so fixated on someone else’s reputation score.
The simple fact is that you couldn’t understand the rules of this forum and have continually attempted to remake into your liking , again without success.
The simple fact is that the forum rules are and always have been that it outing someone’s identity IS NOT permitted and that the use of an additional ID IS permitted.
I have played by those rules; you can’t accept them and have done everything in your power to make it clear that you haven’t gotten your way.
Your inability to grasp those fundamentals and live within them and succeed says mountains about you and very little about me.
Remember, I don’t really care about the reputation score other than to point out that it is a farce and a popularity contest – and don’t mind noting who is so consumed with trying to get even that they now push red buttons solely out of instinct.
Figure out how to debate the topics in which you participate and play within the rules and you’ll be fine.
More importantly, we’ll get along fine in our participation on this forum.
Kev,
We can differ on the voting system… won’t be the first or last thing on which we disagree. If it makes you feel better pushing red buttons, go for it. Not sure what you get out of it though.
I never said that I support everything that Walker stands for. I didn’t say that modern government, either in WI or anywhere else is truly protecting the right interests.
I have said that the majority of the citizens there do not agree with the total package of how the state is being run. They have voted for Walker and his policies not once, but twice in 2 years. Not sure that any US governor in history has ever faced 2 elections that close together. IIRC, he was also the first US governor to survive a recall election which pretty well says that all of the noise that was made really didn’t resonate with the desires of the citizenry of WI.
You admit you are to the left of center… I presume you have figured out that in a democracy, you will find it hard to be satisfied with the governments under which you have to live. How you learn to live with that dissonance is up to you – but I for one would be interested in hearing how you do it.
The world needs idealistic people like you who are committed to making the world a better place and not just settling for the status quo or slightly better. Figuring out to make it is a lot harder…. Regardless of what you think of it, I still think you should get a lot more involved in politics and in making what you believe become reality. I have a lot more respect for people who make their vision of the world come true, regardless of whether that world is built on values I agree with, than I do listening to the best idealists describe their view of the world while doing nothing but criticizing the world that now exists.
BTW, Dane County WI is reporting the highest amount of housing starts in a number of years… not exactly a sign of doom and gloom in a country where housing continues to be a huge weight on the economy.
Make a difference in the world, Kevin. You’ve got everything you need to do it.
Delta is not much different. The world moved on with the DL/NW merger. You didn’t get a chance to vote on the merger… the NW board made the decision to sell out. Good, bad, or indifferent, it is your world now. Figuring out to succeed in it and make it work. If you want to invest your energy in making it a better place, do so. If you don’t, then just go to work, put in your 8 ½ hours and go home – just don’t complain because it isn’t what you want unless your willing to make a difference to change it.
Delta is not the company it once was. But neither is my hometown, the USA, or the world. Change happens and it is not necessarily good. The key to success is figuring out how to win in the midst of what is given you.
All of us get a chance to shape our small part of the world. Don’t miss the opportunity to make your corner the best little corner on the planet.
As much as you might like to think I look down on you, I absolutely do not. Such a view is based on your perception, not the message I have sent.
Succeed within the world you live – and know there are a lot of people, me included, who are genuinely interested in seeing you succeed to the fullest in every realm of your life. Always have and always will.
I appreciate your candor in painting your innocence but it doesn’t justify or explain why you attempted to out me – which accomplished nothing except have you confess your guilt in that action online – or why you are so fixated on someone else’s reputation score.
The simple fact is that you couldn’t understand the rules of this forum and have continually attempted to remake into your liking , again without success.
The simple fact is that the forum rules are and always have been that it outing someone’s identity IS NOT permitted and that the use of an additional ID IS permitted.
I have played by those rules; you can’t accept them and have done everything in your power to make it clear that you haven’t gotten your way.
Your inability to grasp those fundamentals and live within them and succeed says mountains about you and very little about me.
Remember, I don’t really care about the reputation score other than to point out that it is a farce and a popularity contest – and don’t mind noting who is so consumed with trying to get even that they now push red buttons solely out of instinct.
Figure out how to debate the topics in which you participate and play within the rules and you’ll be fine.
More importantly, we’ll get along fine in our participation on this forum.
Kev,
We can differ on the voting system… won’t be the first or last thing on which we disagree. If it makes you feel better pushing red buttons, go for it. Not sure what you get out of it though.
I never said that I support everything that Walker stands for. I didn’t say that modern government, either in WI or anywhere else is truly protecting the right interests.
I have said that the majority of the citizens there do not agree with the total package of how the state is being run. They have voted for Walker and his policies not once, but twice in 2 years. Not sure that any US governor in history has ever faced 2 elections that close together. IIRC, he was also the first US governor to survive a recall election which pretty well says that all of the noise that was made really didn’t resonate with the desires of the citizenry of WI.
You admit you are to the left of center… I presume you have figured out that in a democracy, you will find it hard to be satisfied with the governments under which you have to live. How you learn to live with that dissonance is up to you – but I for one would be interested in hearing how you do it.
The world needs idealistic people like you who are committed to making the world a better place and not just settling for the status quo or slightly better. Figuring out to make it is a lot harder…. Regardless of what you think of it, I still think you should get a lot more involved in politics and in making what you believe become reality. I have a lot more respect for people who make their vision of the world come true, regardless of whether that world is built on values I agree with, than I do listening to the best idealists describe their view of the world while doing nothing but criticizing the world that now exists.
Make a difference in the world, Kevin. You’ve got everything you need to do it.
Delta is not much different. The world moved on with the DL/NW merger. You didn’t get a chance to vote on the merger… the NW board made the decision to sell out. Good, bad, or indifferent, it is your world now. Figuring out to succeed in it and make it work. If you want to invest your energy in making it a better place, do so. If you don’t, then just go to work, put in your 8 ½ hours and go home – just don’t complain because it isn’t what you want unless your willing to make a difference to change it.
Delta is not the company it once was. But neither is my hometown, the USA, or the world. Change happens and it is not necessarily good. The key to success is figuring out how to win in the midst of what is given you.
All of us get a chance to shape our small part of the world. Don’t miss the opportunity to make your corner the best little corner on the planet.
As much as you might like to think I look down on you, I absolutely do not. Such a view is based on your perception, not the message I have sent.
Succeed within the world you live – and know there are a lot of people, me included, who are genuinely interested in seeing you be the best person you can be in every realm of your life.
Eric,
I appreciate your candor in painting your innocence but it doesn’t justify or explain why you attempted to out me – which accomplished nothing except have you confess your guilt in that action online – or why you are so fixated on someone else’s reputation score.
The simple fact is that you couldn’t understand the rules of this forum and have continually attempted to remake into your liking , again without success.
The simple fact is that the forum rules are and always have been that it outing someone’s identity IS NOT permitted and that the use of an additional ID IS permitted.
I have played by those rules; you can’t accept them and have done everything in your power to make it clear that you haven’t gotten your way.
Your inability to grasp those fundamentals and live within them and succeed says mountains about you and very little about me.
Remember, I don’t really care about the reputation score other than to point out that it is a farce and a popularity contest – and don’t mind noting who is so consumed with trying to get even that they now push red buttons solely out of instinct.
Figure out how to debate the topics in which you participate and play within the rules and you’ll be fine.
More importantly, we’ll get along fine in our participation on this forum.
Kev,
We can differ on the voting system… won’t be the first or last thing on which we disagree. If it makes you feel better pushing red buttons, go for it. Not sure what you get out of it though.
I never said that I support everything that Walker stands for. I didn’t say that modern government, either in WI or anywhere else is truly protecting the right interests.
I have said that the majority of the citizens there do not agree with the total package of how the state is being run. They have voted for Walker and his policies not once, but twice in 2 years. Not sure that any US governor in history has ever faced 2 elections that close together. IIRC, he was also the first US governor to survive a recall election which pretty well says that all of the noise that was made really didn’t resonate with the desires of the citizenry of WI.
You admit you are to the left of center… I presume you have figured out that in a democracy, you will find it hard to be satisfied with the governments under which you have to live. How you learn to live with that dissonance is up to you – but I for one would be interested in hearing how you do it.
The world needs idealistic people like you who are committed to making the world a better place and not just settling for the status quo or slightly better. Figuring out to make it is a lot harder…. Regardless of what you think of it, I still think you should get a lot more involved in politics and in making what you believe become reality. I have a lot more respect for people who make their vision of the world come true, regardless of whether that world is built on values I agree with, than I do listening to the best idealists describe their view of the world while doing nothing but criticizing the world that now exists.
BTW, Dane County WI is reporting the highest amount of housing starts in a number of years… not exactly a sign of doom and gloom in a country where housing continues to be a huge weight on the economy.
Make a difference in the world, Kevin. You’ve got everything you need to do it.
Delta is not much different. The world moved on with the DL/NW merger. You didn’t get a chance to vote on the merger… the NW board made the decision to sell out. Good, bad, or indifferent, it is your world now. Figuring out to succeed in it and make it work. If you want to invest your energy in making it a better place, do so. If you don’t, then just go to work, put in your 8 ½ hours and go home – just don’t complain because it isn’t what you want unless your willing to make a difference to change it.
Delta is not the company it once was. But neither is my hometown, the USA, or the world. Change happens and it is not necessarily good. The key to success is figuring out how to win in the midst of what is given you.
All of us get a chance to shape our small part of the world. Don’t miss the opportunity to make your corner the best little corner on the planet.
As much as you might like to think I look down on you, I absolutely do not. Such a view is based on your perception, not the message I have sent.
Succeed within the world you live – and know there are a lot of people, me included, who are genuinely interested in seeing you succeed to the fullest in every realm of your life. Always have and always will.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
corrections...
I have said that the majority of the citizens there do agree with the total package of how the state is being run.
Figuring out to make it a whole lot better….
Delta is not much different (than the state of WI).
BTW, the quirky servers on the new board are far more of an issue than the voting system.
I have said that the majority of the citizens there do agree with the total package of how the state is being run.
Figuring out to make it a whole lot better….
Delta is not much different (than the state of WI).
BTW, the quirky servers on the new board are far more of an issue than the voting system.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,988
- 9,428
Oh, Tim, the revisionist historian....
Last year, you were the one who went to great pains to post my full name, make reference to my city of residence, my employer, etc., making comments about how my employer would be most interested to see my incompetence, how you were going to negatively impact my Google search results.
That's the type of stuff a stalker does.
I fully understand why Airliners.net banned you from their forums.
If you don't care about the reputation score, then why do you keep using another ID to vote up your own posts?
You comment on other people being consumed by clicking little red buttons, yet you seem to have done just that on every post I've made in the past few weeks. And you seem quite concerned with offsetting those little red buttons by clicking lots of green ones in your favor.
I just find the hypocrisy humorous. You're a real-life George F. Babbitt. Maybe you should read it, or read it again if it's been a few years.
Last year, you were the one who went to great pains to post my full name, make reference to my city of residence, my employer, etc., making comments about how my employer would be most interested to see my incompetence, how you were going to negatively impact my Google search results.
That's the type of stuff a stalker does.
I fully understand why Airliners.net banned you from their forums.
If you don't care about the reputation score, then why do you keep using another ID to vote up your own posts?
You comment on other people being consumed by clicking little red buttons, yet you seem to have done just that on every post I've made in the past few weeks. And you seem quite concerned with offsetting those little red buttons by clicking lots of green ones in your favor.
I just find the hypocrisy humorous. You're a real-life George F. Babbitt. Maybe you should read it, or read it again if it's been a few years.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
Eric,
Your user name on this forum is your first initial and your last name. Users here regularly call you Eric which you have responded to.
You have posted your own phone number with something to the effect of “stalkers please call me instead.” Thank you for confirming that your address is in the same region as your phone number.
You have posted your blog and twitter addresses which contain even more personal information about you.
You have posted your employers, past and present, and the nature of the work you do.
It is NOT stalking for ANYONE to repost the same information which you have publicly disclosed.
It IS stalking for you to obtain non-public information and then pursue a person, which is exactly what you did – and you have admitted to doing – by obtaining through non-public sources my professional credentials and identity which I have not disclosed and then posting that information publicly.
It’s precisely because this board doesn’t want to get in the middle of a lawsuit that outing a member is fully against the rules and why your attempts to out me have met with intervention by the moderators.
You tout your professional credentials and then are surprised when someone challenges you that you have not only incorrectly read but also incorrectly applied data to come to erroneous conclusions.
You tag your posts with a line that WT and Spectator hate this and then act offended when they give you a negative vote.
And all at the same time you argue that what others are doing is wrong, even though they are working exactly within the framework that has been given to them?
The board is based on the level of disclosure each member is willing to provide. Two IDs are permissible.
Honestly, Eric. Get help if you can’t grasp these realities.
Your user name on this forum is your first initial and your last name. Users here regularly call you Eric which you have responded to.
You have posted your own phone number with something to the effect of “stalkers please call me instead.” Thank you for confirming that your address is in the same region as your phone number.
You have posted your blog and twitter addresses which contain even more personal information about you.
You have posted your employers, past and present, and the nature of the work you do.
It is NOT stalking for ANYONE to repost the same information which you have publicly disclosed.
It IS stalking for you to obtain non-public information and then pursue a person, which is exactly what you did – and you have admitted to doing – by obtaining through non-public sources my professional credentials and identity which I have not disclosed and then posting that information publicly.
It’s precisely because this board doesn’t want to get in the middle of a lawsuit that outing a member is fully against the rules and why your attempts to out me have met with intervention by the moderators.
You tout your professional credentials and then are surprised when someone challenges you that you have not only incorrectly read but also incorrectly applied data to come to erroneous conclusions.
You tag your posts with a line that WT and Spectator hate this and then act offended when they give you a negative vote.
And all at the same time you argue that what others are doing is wrong, even though they are working exactly within the framework that has been given to them?
The board is based on the level of disclosure each member is willing to provide. Two IDs are permissible.
Honestly, Eric. Get help if you can’t grasp these realities.
Unions are giving concessions and are dividend in big union states like MA and NY, the reforms and attacks are not limited to WI.
MA: Massachusetts teachers union agrees to give up key rights on seniority
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/06/08/massachusetts-teachers-union-agrees-give-many-seniority-rights/GB6B5YhIcriROeDLtULLRI/story.html?p1=Well_BG_Links
NY: Donations to Key Cuomo Ally Show a Rift Among Unions
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/08/nyregion/union-donations-to-business-group-show-fracture-in-labor-movement.html?pagewanted=all
Josh
MA: Massachusetts teachers union agrees to give up key rights on seniority
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/06/08/massachusetts-teachers-union-agrees-give-many-seniority-rights/GB6B5YhIcriROeDLtULLRI/story.html?p1=Well_BG_Links
NY: Donations to Key Cuomo Ally Show a Rift Among Unions
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/08/nyregion/union-donations-to-business-group-show-fracture-in-labor-movement.html?pagewanted=all
Josh
Kev3188
Veteran
I assume you meant "divided?" Auto Correct fail?
And yeah, the attacks are certainly not limited to one state; the assault on labor is occurring nationally.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
Here is some great information showing that private sector and household debt is decreasing while public sector debt is decreasing....
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-debt-load-falling-at-fastest-pace-since-1950s-2012-06-08
"Cecchetti and his co-authors found that growth can be impaired once nonfinancial corporate debt hits about 90% of GDP, or when household
debts hit 85% of GDP, or when public debts hit about 85%.
In the U.S., household debt has now fallen to 84% of GDP from a peak of 98%. Nonfinancial corporate debt has fallen to 77% from a peak of 83%. Financial sector debt has plunged from 123% of GDP to 89%. Public debt has risen to 89% from 56%.
The deleveraging process in the private sector still has a ways to run, not based on some economists’ rule of thumb, but based on what real people are actually doing. Banks and households are still slashing their debt, while nonfinancial companies are beginning to borrow again, but only a little, according to the latest data from the Federal Reserve’s flow of funds report"
As the private sector has learned to live within its budget, it is gaining the flexibilty to withstand financial shocks better than other parts of the world.
It isn't surprising by the same token given lower costs and better debt management that the US airline industry as a whole right now is considerably more healthy relative to the rest of the global airline industry than it has been for a long time.
"Economists who have studied the impact of indebtedness have found that low levels of debt are essential to growth, but that high levels of total outstanding debt can hurt an economy. Beyond a tipping point, adding on more debt will reduce growth over the long run, even if it inflates a bubble in the short run"
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-debt-load-falling-at-fastest-pace-since-1950s-2012-06-08
"Cecchetti and his co-authors found that growth can be impaired once nonfinancial corporate debt hits about 90% of GDP, or when household
debts hit 85% of GDP, or when public debts hit about 85%.
In the U.S., household debt has now fallen to 84% of GDP from a peak of 98%. Nonfinancial corporate debt has fallen to 77% from a peak of 83%. Financial sector debt has plunged from 123% of GDP to 89%. Public debt has risen to 89% from 56%.
The deleveraging process in the private sector still has a ways to run, not based on some economists’ rule of thumb, but based on what real people are actually doing. Banks and households are still slashing their debt, while nonfinancial companies are beginning to borrow again, but only a little, according to the latest data from the Federal Reserve’s flow of funds report"
As the private sector has learned to live within its budget, it is gaining the flexibilty to withstand financial shocks better than other parts of the world.
It isn't surprising by the same token given lower costs and better debt management that the US airline industry as a whole right now is considerably more healthy relative to the rest of the global airline industry than it has been for a long time.
"Economists who have studied the impact of indebtedness have found that low levels of debt are essential to growth, but that high levels of total outstanding debt can hurt an economy. Beyond a tipping point, adding on more debt will reduce growth over the long run, even if it inflates a bubble in the short run"
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
And for those who are justifiably upset about high executive salaries that are disconnected from a company's financial performance:
"
LONDON (MarketWatch) — Corporate boards in the U.S. should brace themselves for mounting dissatisfaction with executive pay in coming years, as the current “shareholder spring” in Europe likely will spill across the pond for next year’s proxy season.
Prominent U.S. companies like Citigroup Inc. /quotes/zigman/5065548/quotes/nls/c C +1.82% and NYSE Euronext /quotes/zigman/421745/quotes/nls/nyx NYX -0.77% have already felt the echo from the European revolts, although the scope for shareholders’ anger remains to be seen in the U.S.
“The fact that there have been large pay outs when shareholders haven’t seen any returns makes people angry. People don't want to pay for bad performance and now share prices are down, but it doesn’t seem to have enough effect on executive pay,” said Peter Butler, chief executive at Governance for Owners, a U.K.-based investing firm that promotes shareholder engagement with corporations."
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-firms-brace-for-uk-style-shareholder-revolt-2012-06-08?link=mw_home_kiosk
"
LONDON (MarketWatch) — Corporate boards in the U.S. should brace themselves for mounting dissatisfaction with executive pay in coming years, as the current “shareholder spring” in Europe likely will spill across the pond for next year’s proxy season.
Prominent U.S. companies like Citigroup Inc. /quotes/zigman/5065548/quotes/nls/c C +1.82% and NYSE Euronext /quotes/zigman/421745/quotes/nls/nyx NYX -0.77% have already felt the echo from the European revolts, although the scope for shareholders’ anger remains to be seen in the U.S.
“The fact that there have been large pay outs when shareholders haven’t seen any returns makes people angry. People don't want to pay for bad performance and now share prices are down, but it doesn’t seem to have enough effect on executive pay,” said Peter Butler, chief executive at Governance for Owners, a U.K.-based investing firm that promotes shareholder engagement with corporations."
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-firms-brace-for-uk-style-shareholder-revolt-2012-06-08?link=mw_home_kiosk
- Status
