Scabs

[Birdman]

Keeptheodds, you are one audacious scab wanabe or just a miscreant NW manager. I believe the latter.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

<_< Opps! Don't you just love it when that happens???? These cards came to us through the mail, not from the job fair. Question! What happens "if" NW go'es out, and one of their aircraft shows up on our doorstep???? I think we all know what the reaction of the TWU would be!!! :down:

[post="286584"][/post]​

If a NWA a/c comes knocking on AA's door the company will answer it. Fine. But I won't be home. And I'm sure the rest of my "family" will not be either.

 

[Bob Owens]

keeptheodds,Aug 9 2005, 10:29 PM]
This posting is for all who want to know about the SCABS in Arizona. As I sit here and type this there are 2477 mechanics ready for deployment.


So why are they still looking for mechanics and doubling the sign up bonus?


There is another 423 still in training. Their training will be complete this month. I sit here in my hotel waiting for NW Mechs to strike so I can get my deployment orders or for NW Mechs not to strike so I can go home. It makes no difference to me which way it goes.


If you are what you say you are then why would you say it makes no difference? If there is no strike you are unemployed.

Every new site I go to I have to take these courses. Every mechanic here carries a valid FAA A&P license. I have worked with many of these men and they are very good at their jobs.

So good that they cant find a permanent job?So good they have to be scabs?

There are forty people in my class they all carry an A&P, twelve have college degrees, two have comercial pilots license, four have private pilots license and five have their IA.

How many of them are there for the $32/hr to sit in a hotel in Arizona for a while? There is a good chance that come time to work they wont show up. How many of them are just like the guy who made the video.

I assure you that they can more than handle a little line maintnance and a couple of turnarounds.

Sure within the typical two week turnaround. I remember a few years back when there was a layoff and guys from OH came out to the line. Sure in time they would learn but most didnt even know where to service the Hydraulics, engine oil or even the tires. Doesnt mean they were not good mechs, they just never did those things.

NW has already spent 32 million on this project and they have budgeted 120 million plus they are willing to go higher if neccesary.

So in other words they really dont need all the concessions they are demanding.

 

[MCI transplant]

:angry: NWAMT----- take it for what it's worth, but i just heard the Scabs were told to report in at MSP today!!!! good Luck in all this! i've got a feeling we'll all need it!!!!!!!!

 

[Hackman]

This posting is for all who want to know about the SCABS in Arizona. As I sit here and type this there are 2477 mechanics ready for deployment. There is another 423 still in training. Their training will be complete this month. I sit here in my hotel waiting for NW Mechs to strike so I can get my deployment orders or for NW Mechs not to strike so I can go home. It makes no difference to me which way it goes. However I must tell you this, if you strike you might or might not go back to work. Whichever way it goes for you I do know you will not return as a union worker. Unions are going the way of the dinosaur and if you do not believe this you are a fool.
Also do not believe for a minute that these mechs here are drug-up losers like you are lead to believe. Dont think for a minute that this training is for us to learn how to work on aircraft. All we are doing here is taking Gen-Fam and ground support courses which is required by the FAA for any new employees. Every new site I go to I have to take these courses. Every mechanic here carries a valid FAA A&P license. I have worked with many of these men and they are very good at their jobs. There are forty people in my class they all carry an A&P, twelve have college degrees, two have comercial pilots license, four have private pilots license and five have their IA. If you think these are a bunch of hodge-podge mechanics thrown together you are badly mistaken. These are men that perform heavy c and d checks and heavy mods on a regular basis. I assure you that they can more than handle a little line maintnance and a couple of turnarounds.
Gentlemen if you think this is going to be a short easy strike you can quit kidding yourselves. NW has already spent 32 million on this project and they have budgeted 120 million plus they are willing to go higher if neccesary.
Well NW mechanics my class is going to soon start so I must go. I wish you all the best of luck.

p.s. can someone e-mail me the e-mail address of the fool reporter on rescue 4 under cover? We watch him over and over at the bar and laugh our a**es off at his incredibly biased reporting. I sure would like to give him an earfull.

[post="287035"][/post]​

Well Mr. management stooge, you talk a good game, but from experience, I know different. Most of the scabs you have are bottom of the barrel wannabee's, or fresh cream new-bees that NWA has lied to about what they are going to be doing. How do I know? I was a new-bee fresh out of the USAF when Eastern went on strike in 1989. I was looking for work, and I got invited to "FREE", "GREAT", "AWESOME" L1011 and 727 school in Houston Texas. Free airfare, Free room, Free food, Free party time, a "WONDERFUL JOB OF A LIFETIME" awaits! Then we found out from the t.v. news toward the end that we were being recruited as scabs for Eastern Airlines. So I asked the class insructor, and he didn't say much, except "I haven't heard that." We then knew it. Long story short, on the bus back to the airport, this Eastern Management liar gets on up and states "Now we expect all of you to be in MIA in two weeks for your work assignments." You what Mr. #### stirrer?

He got laughed off the bus and told to PACK SAND!!!! Thanks for the "FREE" stuff!!! Buh-Bye now, Eastern management scum!!!

Nobody I knew scabbed for Eastern. It failed at Eastern, and it will FAIL at NWA!!!

If any other unions walk with AMFA, it will be over in days, and you'll be gone too! Lifes' a beeyach.....

 

[keeptheodds]

So why are they still looking for mechanics and doubling the sign up bonus?

If you are what you say you are then why would you say it makes no difference? If there is no strike you are unemployed.

So good that they cant find a permanent job?So good they have to be scabs.
How many of them are there for the $32/hr to sit in a hotel in Arizona for a while? There is a good chance that come time to work they wont show up. How many of them are just like the guy who made the video.

Sure within the typical two week turnaround. I remember a few years back when there was a layoff and guys from OH came out to the line. Sure in time they would learn but most didnt even know where to service the Hydraulics, engine oil or even the tires. Doesnt mean they were not good mechs, they just never did those things

So in other words they really dont need all the concessions they are demanding

Hello again fellows where do I start? First off NW is still 1500 mechs short of their goal. Why do they need so many? Because I'm sure they expect a percentage not to show when they need them and they want this to go as smooth as possible.
These guys are good and they are fully capable of getting permanant jobs. Here is where we are having cultural clashes. AIRLINES-MRO'S two different worlds and this is where you dont know how lucky you are because your whole career has been shelterd. Take Jet Blue for example. MAE services their aircraft, someplace in Malaysia makes a better offer, MAE losses four lines therefore 300 mechanics lose their jobs. Its just a matter of mathmatics. Better yet lets take Northrop Grumman. They are supossed to build 19 J-stars, congress cuts funding for the project,the Air Force in return cancels orders, 2300 people lose their jobs. These mechs are just left in the cold. So you apply for a job with the airlines but you cant get hired because the union says "your not prior union and you dont have a brother-in-law working here, who the hell do you think you are?"
I can't believe how arrogant some people can be. Please dont think that NW is the only aviation company out there that fly that particular type aircrft and you are the only ones who know how to work on them. I promise you that that is not the case. Some of the mechanics here probably built your airplanes.
Your missing the point here about these concessions. Its not about the concessions its about the union. NW doesnt want the union and if getting rid of you means getting rid of the union so be it. NW doesnt want to out source its maintenace but it is either going to have to out source to stay competitive or get rid of the union and restructure. How many times have you heard "I dont have to do that thats not my job im going to go see my union rep." That statement costs a company millions of dollars a year.
Im on file with three different contract houses a job for me is just a phone call away. Ive been gone for five months now and im just ready for a break. So when this is settled I get to go home for a few months. The top paid mechanic at our little regional airport makes 21 an hour. The average pay is about 12.50. What a joke Huh?

 

[keeptheodds]

Well Mr. management stooge, you talk a good game, but from experience, I know different. Most of the scabs you have are bottom of the barrel wannabee's, or fresh cream new-bees that NWA has lied to about what they are going to be doing. How do I know? I was a new-bee fresh out of the USAF when Eastern went on strike in 1989. I was looking for work, and I got invited to "FREE", "GREAT", "AWESOME" L1011 and 727 school in Houston Texas. Free airfare, Free room, Free food, Free party time, a "WONDERFUL JOB OF A LIFETIME" awaits! Then we found out from the t.v. news toward the end that we were being recruited as scabs for Eastern Airlines. So I asked the class insructor, and he didn't say much, except "I haven't heard that." We then knew it. Long story short, on the bus back to the airport, this Eastern Management liar gets on up and states "Now we expect all of you to be in MIA in two weeks for your work assignments." You what Mr. #### stirrer?

He got laughed off the bus and told to PACK SAND!!!! Thanks for the "FREE" stuff!!! Buh-Bye now, Eastern management scum!!!

Nobody I knew scabbed for Eastern. It failed at Eastern, and it will FAIL at NWA!!!

If any other unions walk with AMFA, it will be over in days, and you'll be gone too! Lifes' a beeyach.....

[post="287136"][/post]​

Thats pretty funny. I do wish you the best of luck when your aircraft are flying off to MIA, EADS, Timco, AAR, Singapore and Malaysia just to name a few. you dont seem to understand this isnt about someone coming there to take your job this is about your job flying away.

 

[RDU Jetblast]

You are a bottom feeder. You folks may be well educated and experienced but you have no ethics. You put the value of a buck above everything else. Go find a real job. If you can.

 

[Bob Owens]

So why are they still looking for mechanics and doubling the sign up bonus?

If you are what you say you are then why would you say it makes no difference? If there is no strike you are unemployed.

So good that they cant find a permanent job?So good they have to be scabs.
How many of them are there for the $32/hr to sit in a hotel in Arizona for a while? There is a good chance that come time to work they wont show up. How many of them are just like the guy who made the video.

Sure within the typical two week turnaround. I remember a few years back when there was a layoff and guys from OH came out to the line. Sure in time they would learn but most didnt even know where to service the Hydraulics, engine oil or even the tires. Doesnt mean they were not good mechs, they just never did those things

So in other words they really dont need all the concessions they are demanding

Hello again fellows where do I start?

Avoiding the questions?

First off NW is still 1500 mechs short of their goal. Why do they need so many? Because I'm sure they expect a percentage not to show when they need them and they want this to go as smooth as possible.

keeptheodds,Aug 9 2005, 10:29 PM]
As I sit here and type this there are 2477 mechanics ready for deployment.

1500 + 2477 =3977, isnt that pretty close to what they have now? If thats the case then why does NWA expect AMFA to allow them to lay off half the guys? Maybe they only have 400 mechs, plus the 1500 that you admit they are looking for, then they would have the 2000 they say need to keep the operation going. I never heard of an airline keeping their heavy maint going during a strike. If they are going to pay you guys the same and keep just as many as they have now then why bother with a strike? One of the first things they do is shut down OH and send all non-union out to the line.

These guys are good and they are fully capable of getting permanant jobs.

Then why havent you? What is your work history?

Here is where we are having cultural clashes. AIRLINES-MRO'S two different worlds and this is where you dont know how lucky you are because your whole career has been shelterd. Take Jet Blue for example. MAE services their aircraft, someplace in Malaysia makes a better offer, MAE losses four lines therefore 300 mechanics lose their jobs. Its just a matter of mathmatics. Better yet lets take Northrop Grumman. They are supossed to build 19 J-stars, congress cuts funding for the project,the Air Force in return cancels orders, 2300 people lose their jobs. These mechs are just left in the cold. So you apply for a job with the airlines but you cant get hired because the union says "your not prior union and you dont have a brother-in-law working here, who the hell do you think you are?"


Well that just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

First of all unions have no input whatsoever in the hiring process, secondly, what you are claiming is illegal-read the Railway Labor Act.

The companies hire the mechanics who then join the union. The reason why you were never hired by an airline is because you probably either had no heavy turbine experience or no line experience, depending on what you were going for, couldnt pass the drug test or background check or maybe the interviewer simply was not impressed by you.

By the way airlines lay off too.

And layoffs in the airlines usually coincide with the economic cycle, in other words airline workers get dumped when there is typically high unemployment, but mechanics usually fare pretty well because of the skills they have. In fact I keep hearing of all these unemployed mechanics out there but not only is everyone I know who was laid off working but I also know several mechanics who quit and either started their own businesses, got hired on by the electric company and even went to other airlines.


I can't believe how arrogant some people can be.


That shouldnt be a problem for you.

Please dont think that NW is the only aviation company out there that fly that particular type aircrft and you are the only ones who know how to work on them. I promise you that that is not the case. Some of the mechanics here probably built your airplanes.


Your missing the point here about these concessions. Its not about the concessions its about the union. NW doesnt want the union and if getting rid of you means getting rid of the union so be it. NW doesnt want to out source its maintenace but it is either going to have to out source to stay competitive or get rid of the union and restructure.


It doesnt suprise me that NWA wants to get rid of AMFA, it also doesnt suprise me that they want to keep the IAM and ALPA.

How many times have you heard "I dont have to do that thats not my job im going to go see my union rep." That statement costs a company millions of dollars a year.


Do you have any concrete examples of that happening or is it simply more anti-union rhetoric.

Im on file with three different contract houses a job for me is just a phone call away. Ive been gone for five months now and im just ready for a break. So when this is settled I get to go home for a few months. The top paid mechanic at our little regional airport makes 21 an hour. The average pay is about 12.50. What a joke Huh?


Yea but where is it? $21/hr where you can buy a house for $100,000 aint bad, just as $30/hr doesnt cut it where you cant get anything for under $350,000. The big carriers mainly operate out of high cost areas, lets say you dont break the strike and now the airline tells you, "Ok now you are permanent, you are assigned to JFK, go find yourself a place to live becauase we are no longer putting you up in a hotel." Now what are you going to do?

 

[AMFAMAN]

This posting is for all who want to know about the SCABS in Arizona. As I sit here and type this there are 2477 mechanics ready for deployment. There is another 423 still in training. Their training will be complete this month. I sit here in my hotel waiting for NW Mechs to strike so I can get my deployment orders or for NW Mechs not to strike so I can go home. It makes no difference to me which way it goes. However I must tell you this, if you strike you might or might not go back to work. Whichever way it goes for you I do know you will not return as a union worker. Unions are going the way of the dinosaur and if you do not believe this you are a fool.

[post="287035"][/post]​

Scab or company stooge, doesn't matter, either way you are the moral equivalent of a child molester.

 

[pitguy]

I agree with you AMFAMAN. It is a shame though that a lot of A&P mechanics vote Republican (not that the Democrats are any better) and cut their own throats when they do it.

 

[keeptheodds]

1500 + 2477 =3977, isnt that pretty close to what they have now? If thats the case then why does NWA expect AMFA to allow them to lay off half the guys? Maybe they only have 400 mechs, plus the 1500 that you admit they are looking for, then they would have the 2000 they say need to keep the operation going. I never heard of an airline keeping their heavy maint going during a strike. If they are going to pay you guys the same and keep just as many as they have now then why bother with a strike? One of the first things they do is shut down OH and send all non-union out to the line.

NW wants 4500 mechanics ready to go:
          2477 are currently ready
            423 in training
this equals 2900 are you with me?
4500 minus 2900 equals 1600 mechanics short.
4500 minus 20% for no-shows equals 3600 mechanics ready for work.
3600 minus 15% for those that quit during the strike equals 3060
So to meet that demand they are 1600 mechs short.
These guys arnt coming up there to live we have homes else where. so after the strike Im going home regardless if you come back to work or not. I do not understand why you cant understand that NW doesnt want the union there anymore. They want you guys to strike so they can break your union. They are going to replace every one of you guys with non-union workers or out source their maintnance.

Then why havent you? What is your work history?

Since 1993 Ive worked heavy mods and rebuilds on military aircraft I perfom c&d checks on 727,737,757,md-11,md-80,a310,a320,a300-200, a300-600 and the  good ole dc-9 and dc-10. I cater towards sheetmetal and im damn good at it. Im a partner in a realestate holdings and management company and a construction company. My wife is an RN and soon to be a nurse-practioner. I just do this for fun and to pay for my pet projects. I like to work from 5 to 7 months out of the year. Then Im at home the rest of the time.

Here is where we are having cultural clashes. AIRLINES-MRO'S two different worlds and this is where you dont know how lucky you are because your whole career has been shelterd.  Take Jet Blue for example. MAE services their aircraft, someplace in Malaysia makes a better offer, MAE losses four lines therefore 300 mechanics lose their jobs. Its just a matter of mathmatics. Better yet lets take Northrop Grumman. They are supossed to build 19 J-stars, congress cuts funding for the project,the Air Force in return cancels orders, 2300 people lose their jobs. These mechs are just left in the cold. So you apply for a job with the airlines but you cant get hired because the union says "your not prior union and you dont have a brother-in-law working here, who the hell do you think you are?"

Well that just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

First of all unions have no input whatsoever in the hiring process, secondly, what you are claiming is illegal-read the Railway Labor Act.

The companies hire the mechanics who then join the union. The reason why you were never hired by an airline is because you probably either had no heavy turbine experience or no line experience, depending on what you were going for, couldnt pass the drug test or background check or maybe the interviewer simply was not impressed by you.

By the way airlines lay off too.

And layoffs in the airlines usually coincide with the economic cycle, in other words airline workers get dumped when there is typically high unemployment, but mechanics usually fare pretty well because of the skills they have. In fact I keep hearing of all these unemployed mechanics out there but not only is everyone I know who was laid off working but I also know several mechanics who quit and either started their own businesses, got hired on by the electric company and even went to other airlines. 

Everywhere Ive been human resources and the union are sleeping in the same bed and im sure some cash gets passed under the sheets every now and then. It only becomes illegal if they dont agree which is rarely the case

  I can't believe how arrogant some people can be.
That shouldnt be a problem for you.

Im not arrogant I just deal with the real facts and apply them in a common sense kind of way
Please dont think that NW is the only aviation company out there that fly that particular type aircrft and you are the only ones who know how to work on them. I promise you that that is not the case. Some of the mechanics here probably built your airplanes.
     Your missing the point here about these concessions. Its not about the concessions its about the union. NW doesnt want the union and if getting rid of you means getting rid of the union so be it. NW doesnt want to out source its maintenace but it is either going to have to out source to stay competitive or get rid of the union and restructure.
It doesnt suprise me that NWA wants to get rid of AMFA, it also doesnt suprise me that they want to keep the IAM and ALPA.

How many times have you heard "I dont have to do that thats not my job im going to go see my union rep." That statement costs a company millions of dollars a year.
Do you have any concrete examples of that happening or is it simply more anti-union rhetoric.

I was there it happend and i know you have seen it to.

     Im on file with three different contract houses a job for me is just a phone call away. Ive been gone for five months now and im just ready for a break. So when this is settled I get to go home for a few months. The top paid mechanic at our little regional airport makes 21 an hour. The average pay is about 12.50. What a joke Huh?
Yea but where is it? $21/hr where you can buy a house for $100,000 aint bad, just as $30/hr doesnt cut it where you cant get anything for under $350,000. The big carriers mainly operate out of high cost areas, lets say you dont break the strike and now the airline tells you, "Ok now you are permanent, you are assigned to JFK, go find yourself a place to live becauase we are no longer putting you up in a hotel." Now what are you going to do? 

[post="287152"][/post]​

My house cost 235,000 thats why my wife works.

 

[eolesen]

A word of caution....

Making comparisons to what happened with Eastern is dangerous in one aspect --- back in 1989, many airlines were hiring at the time, so all those replacement workers they supposedly had probably did come from the bottom of the barrel.

I don't think you can assume that this is the case today, especially when you have literally thousands of laid-off A&P's looking to make ends meet.

History shows that finding scab labor during the depression wasn't very difficult. For many people, the situations they find themselves in today aren't all that different from where many workers were in during the 1930's.

 

[MCI transplant]

A word of caution....

Making comparisons to what happened with Eastern is dangerous in one aspect --- back in 1989, many airlines were hiring at the time, so all those replacement workers they supposedly had probably did come from the bottom of the barrel. 

I don't think you can assume that this is the case today, especially when you have literally thousands of laid-off A&P's looking to make ends meet.

History shows that finding scab labor during the depression wasn't very difficult.  For many people, the situations they find themselves in today aren't all that different from where many workers were in during the 1930's.

[post="287269"][/post]​

<_< Are you suggesting "Labor" use the same tackics they used in the 1930's????? That could get vary Ugly!!!!!!!

 

[keeptheodds]

New update gentlemen, We just went from 5 days a week training to 6. They also had us fillout uniform order tickets. and told us to have steel toe boots before the end of the month. Its getting down to the wire here. Its been running pretty smooth here and that all changed today I dont know what happend up there today to get these guys into such a frenzy but you need to fix it. About 70 new mechs showed up over the past couple of days and they have been put on a schedule that amounts to pulling double shifts. I heard a bunch of guys talking at the bar and a bunch of them are flying out tomorrow. None of them would say where they were going. Good luck to you fellows. Also, does anyone know what mel or mil means?