The Points Guy website is reporting that Gary Kelly will approach WN's unions for concessions.
Article is here: https://bit.ly/33wljRG
Article is here: https://bit.ly/33wljRG
Southwest approaches unions for concessions
- Thread starter Kev3188
- Start date
robbedagain
Veteran
robbed'.
Who's second ??
DEL - DUH already cut the pay 30%, without the workers having any say-so !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If those A - HOLES,(ramper's) in AT - LAN - TA, had any BALLS, they would have voted-in the IAM, and our good friend Kev3188 would be back at work WITH NO PAY CUT !!!! ( Kev3188 has enough seniority that DEL - DUH would have to SHUT DOWN before they got to Kev') !
Gary Kelley..." BOO HOO HOO ". Our Friends, family, culture ETC.
NO GIVE $$$ BACKS NEVER , EVER !!
Life isn't fair, so junior people, last in the door, are the first ones OUT !!
CASE CLOSED, PERIOD !!
NO GIVE $$$ BACKS NEVER , EVER !!
Life isn't fair, so junior people, last in the door, are the first ones OUT !!
CASE CLOSED, PERIOD !!
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,988
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Easy for Bears to scream "full pay to the last day" when he's not actually working there. The unions at AA took that approach, and 19,000 of them are filing for unemployment and COBRA as of a week ago.
I'll hope that the unions and employees at WN and DL are a lot more self-aware of just how dire the situation is that they're facing and act accordingly. They see the empty airplanes and airports on a daily basis. Do you keep some people at full pay, or do you engage in "shared sacrifice" and wet everyone's beaks?
My household managed to weather an effective 20% paycut that we had zero say and zero warning on. From firsthand experience, I'd still rather have 80% of something than 100% of nothing.
I'll hope that the unions and employees at WN and DL are a lot more self-aware of just how dire the situation is that they're facing and act accordingly. They see the empty airplanes and airports on a daily basis. Do you keep some people at full pay, or do you engage in "shared sacrifice" and wet everyone's beaks?
My household managed to weather an effective 20% paycut that we had zero say and zero warning on. From firsthand experience, I'd still rather have 80% of something than 100% of nothing.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #6
As Bears noted, DL employees have been working under what is essentially a 25% pay cut since last spring (to say nothing of ~20% of the company leaving via early outs).
It's important to note that this was done via a cut in hours, and NOT a cut in base rates. That's an important distinction.
I'm not going to speak for any union on WN's property, but if forced to choose, I think the cut in hours is preferable. If you're gonna cut my income, I at least want my time back in exchange.
It's important to note that this was done via a cut in hours, and NOT a cut in base rates. That's an important distinction.
I'm not going to speak for any union on WN's property, but if forced to choose, I think the cut in hours is preferable. If you're gonna cut my income, I at least want my time back in exchange.
robbedagain
Veteran
I'd be interested in hearing what SWA folks on here would have to say or feel bout this. E.. I agree. I wld take 80% of something better than 100% of nothing
Kev. A cut in hours be preferable to having something compared to having nothing
Kev. A cut in hours be preferable to having something compared to having nothing
There are some other parameters involved here.
First of all, the folks out on voluntary leaves with partial pay agreed to the pay at the time they all left. They are already on a 50% pay cut so either leave them where they are or IF the co. breaks the deals and includes them to go to some lower pay cut agreements then the on leave employees should have the choice to come back as the agreement would be changed by the company. In other words some could take the 50% pay reduction from full pay but NOT from 10-20% cut in full pay and then still apply the 50% pay on leave.
Secondly, All the unions have stated how they feel about concessions. However, Southwest being Southwest, I am sure all unions will agree to talks with the company and see what kind of concessions they are referring to and how much. I could possibly see a small pay reduction like 5-10%, but if they approach the 20% or greater, I don't see that going thru. Going to 20% would trigger most all folks to come back off of leave UNLESS, the company leaves the folks alone at the 50% cut of full pay which would be more than what the rest of the company unions would agree to. So I say leave the folks alone on the voluntary leaves, otherwise they will all come back at full time and cost the company even more money.
Thirdly, let's wait and see what all the unions have to say after meeting with the airline on concessions.
First of all, the folks out on voluntary leaves with partial pay agreed to the pay at the time they all left. They are already on a 50% pay cut so either leave them where they are or IF the co. breaks the deals and includes them to go to some lower pay cut agreements then the on leave employees should have the choice to come back as the agreement would be changed by the company. In other words some could take the 50% pay reduction from full pay but NOT from 10-20% cut in full pay and then still apply the 50% pay on leave.
Secondly, All the unions have stated how they feel about concessions. However, Southwest being Southwest, I am sure all unions will agree to talks with the company and see what kind of concessions they are referring to and how much. I could possibly see a small pay reduction like 5-10%, but if they approach the 20% or greater, I don't see that going thru. Going to 20% would trigger most all folks to come back off of leave UNLESS, the company leaves the folks alone at the 50% cut of full pay which would be more than what the rest of the company unions would agree to. So I say leave the folks alone on the voluntary leaves, otherwise they will all come back at full time and cost the company even more money.
Thirdly, let's wait and see what all the unions have to say after meeting with the airline on concessions.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,988
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Kev, our 20% reduction was also hours to be within the letter of the law for the CARES Act, so yes, I got more time with my family. That also opened up opportunities for others to pick up a second job. I know some people who made more money becoming delivery drivers than what their effective pay cut was. That wouldn't have been practical if it was an actual pay cut versus hours reduction.
Update:
Just came across breaking news that Southwest is implementing a 10% pay cut for all non-union employees starting Jan 1st 2021. Also said asking all other unionized employees for around the same deals. 10% MIGHT be doable even for the folks on leave, any more and I foresee all them coming back to work full time. i still say leave the folks out on the 50% pay alone as they are at a greater reduced pay than the rest at 10%. If the company starts to target all employees at 10% then 50% of that pay for the folks on leaves, THAT is not what they signed in the agreement, therefore the company would be breaking the contract originally agreed to. The employees on the leaves should be given a choice to come back or stay out on the "NEW" pay levels agreed to.
So GK says we are a family again? Funny how the language changes when they want something. Lots of hoops to jump through before it gets to a pay cut. It may or may not happen but one thing is almost certain. It won't happen in time for his self imposed deadline of 1-1-21.
With insp backfil at 100% and some pilots sitting at home for up to the next 5 years at 66% pay I wouldn't get too excited about this just yet.
With insp backfil at 100% and some pilots sitting at home for up to the next 5 years at 66% pay I wouldn't get too excited about this just yet.
JREwing
Advanced
- Feb 11, 2014
- 131
- 15
The airline will still need to remain in business, so it will ultimately come down to concessions or layoffs for represented employees. And remember the trickle down effects of layoffs. Lowest get laid off, next tier will have to relocate. And if your fortunate enough to stay at your station, get ready to work nights, weekends, holidays and get bumped down the list when it comes to vacation bidding.
It's not just as simple as saying "no, no, no."
It's not just as simple as saying "no, no, no."
AH, So EASY for You to pontificate about your 80% vs 100%.
If it was AA 'who BIITCHED SLAPPED YOU' and your pay it didn't matter.
WHY ?
Because Y O U had NO F SAY in the matter ! 'THEY' said BEND OVER, You said OK and kept a smile on your 'kisser' !
Sell your rah-rah-rah PRO COMPANY BS to anyone, except a UNION MAN !!!!!!!!!!!
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