Stock Tanks!

Blue Dude said:
StraaightTaalk said:
Market rate is set by the lowest paying competing carrier, according to the father of B-scale, Robert Crandall. In the 1980's, it was Continental and People Express who were setting the new low standard...now it is JetBlue...
Does anyone want to take a crack at the very obvious error in this statement?
You might be able to argue an error, but, face it, JetBlue is depressing wages all over the industry.
 
Well, hell, if you're going to argue that, I could argue that JetBlue is raising the standard of living for AWA, Frontier, Spirit, and a number of others by demonstrating that you can pay a superior wage to theirs and still make money.

Taking your argument further, you would also have to admit that AA is "depressing" wages at DAL, UAL, NWA, ALK and a few others I probably missed. Shame on you!

Unless you make top dollar in the industry, I guess you're depressing wages for somebody, huh? Gimme a break.
 
Market rate is set by the lowest paying competing carrier, according to the father of B-scale, Robert Crandall.

So when you fly your trips with former B-scalers at AA do you tell them that they're "no better than SCABS". After all, they set a new low in the mid-eighties by accepting a position at AA; now all of them are fairly senior captains. I'd be willing to bet that when you factor in jetBlue's profit sharing checks(last year was over 13%, this year should be around 15%), and their ability to fly productively (ie not having 4 hour sits in between legs), most B6 Captains earn close to 12 year AA md80 pay.

This is a young company, with a sharp and honest team managing them. They told us during our interview that if their profit margins get too high, they're either charging the pax too much, or they're not paying their employees enough. I wouldn't be suprised to see a small pay raise in the near future...one that didn't take 3 years and NMB arbitration.
 
airbaker said:
, and their ability to fly productively (ie not having 4 hour sits in between legs),
You must be thinking of some other airlines. By summer AA's aircraft utilization rate should match WN's and maybe exceed it!!
 
AAmech said:
By summer AA's aircraft utilization rate should match WN's and maybe exceed it!!
Where does this come from? I thought this to be impossible because of the extensive work rules in place. I would be suprised if this could ever happen.
 
I was surprised to hear this too, but apparently thats the plan! With the new concessionary contracts and rolling or flowing hubs in ORD and DFW there's not going to be much sitting around on the ground waiting for the "bank" to leave. AA is going to be around 30-40 planes smaller this coming summer but flying 7% MORE seat miles so they must be doing something right! If you can get it, see the Dallas Morning News article from Oct 30. :up:
 
AAmech said:
I was surprised to hear this too, but apparently thats the plan! With the new concessionary contracts and rolling or flowing hubs in ORD and DFW there's not going to be much sitting around on the ground waiting for the "bank" to leave. AA is going to be around 30-40 planes smaller this coming summer but flying 7% MORE seat miles so they must be doing something right! If you can get it, see the Dallas Morning News article from Oct 30. :up:
Thanks. Very interesting!
 
StraaightTaalk said:
Market rate is set by the lowest paying competing carrier, according to the father of B-scale, Robert Crandall. In the 1980's, it was Continental and People Express who were setting the new low standard...now it is JetBlue...

So, if labor costs are supposed to be fluid, downward, why does management never seem to take the same hit, IF ANY, that the union groups are expected to give up?

By your reasoning, your paycheck should be at least 30 percent less, when taking into account pay and productivity improvements.

If you have not suffered such a loss, I suggest you donate a portion of your managment paycheck to AA each month...I am sure they would take it.
I'm not employed by AMR or any of its subsidiaries, so no need to give back any of my income. B)

But what I don't understand is the constant obsession with management's pay and whether management's pay has been reduced by the same percentage as yours. Members of management bargain for their salary. Organized work groups bargain for theirs. Think they got a better deal than you? Then join management where your performance is all that matters when setting your pay, not your number of years of seniority or your willingness to threaten a strike. Outperform your co-workers and you will be promoted and paid more. Whatta concept. :D

In any event, I'm fairly certain that management pay at AA has lagged and that management took similar pay cuts. Additionally, AA has trimmed the ranks of management substantially, meaning the remaining management employees must be more productive to get the job done.
 
airbaker said:
So when you fly your trips with former B-scalers at AA do you tell them that they're "no better than SCABS". After all, they set a new low in the mid-eighties by accepting a position at AA;
This comment shows a lack of airline history. A scab by definition is detrimental to someone with seniority. The AA B-scale was foisted upon the new hires by the senior pilots. The goal of the B-scale was to allow the company to grow using new low paid employees. I forget which airline started the concept but AA, NWA and others used it.
 
bwipilot, I think the point is, that Fubi definitions of a scab is somewhat in error, although it makes for some very convoluted arguments, that are as silly as they are sad.

By his definition, if you work for more than a union worker, and you are non union, you are a scab, but if you work for less than a nonunion worker, as long as you are unionized its okay. (See, very confusing)
 
bwipilot, I think the point is, that Fubi definitions of a scab is somewhat in error, although it makes for some very convoluted arguments, that are as silly as they are sad.


Bwipilot,

If you read the earlier threads, specifically the one drafted by straaightaalk regarding his interpretations of a SCAB, you'll understand what I was trying to address...namely, a false definition of a scab. He stated:
By accepting work for less than union wages, you essentially drive down the market rate...bottom line...

While you may not be SCABS in the strictest sense of the word, you are no better than SCABS.

That's why I brought up the B-scale comment. I definately don't think they were scabs, but according to straaightaalk, they resembled one as there were other airlines hiring at the time that didn't enact a B-scale. Anyone hired after 1987 at AA knew what the new B-scale pay rate was an accepted it...does that make them a scab....absolutely not!

The funny thing is that many of these former B-scalers spill venom about the evils of jetBlue and how they're bringing the industry down. I know this from the rants on the APA message boards...gee, I wonder how I have access to that?! ;)
 
Posted by FWAAA: {Think they got a better deal than you? Then join management where your performance is all that matters when setting your pay, not your number of years of seniority or your willingness to threaten a strike. Outperform your co-workers and you will be promoted and paid more. Whatta concept.}



How about when your airline's management outperforms management at your competition they get a raise. When they don't, they take a pay cut. I like that concept better.
 
StraaightTaalk said:
Looks like the stock price is still depressed... :eek: :eek: :eek:

Analyst consensus is HOLD...
Still depressed?? JBLU stock at 27.41 (12-13-03) still is the highest in the industry. Someone please tell me if anyone else is higher. Not that it matters however.

The stock is now trading at a much more reasonable value. Everyone used to complain on how high and overvalued the stock was. Well...after 2 splits in two years and some market readjustment, it's now at a level much more evenly priced with regards to the rest of the industry. Is that a bad thing?

Don't get too wrapped up in stock price..concentrate on the customer and provide a quality product...the stock price will take care of itself.

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