Teamsters card drive

[Traymark]

Point is, 401k is not the perfect situation. As a society, we have allowed Corporate America to sell us on a 2 legged stool of retirement when it should be a 3 legged stool. Google 3 legged stool for retirement. It's a shame it is to this point where we are conditioned as a society to settle for the 2 way approach to retirement.

P. Rez

Prez,
Do us all a favor and tell the rest of the folks in your circle that we want NOTHING TO DO WITH THE IAMPF.

It is a failure currently and getting worse. It is poorly run by unqualified individuals and it gives you ZERO control of your money.

I'd rather have my current 401 with Zero increase in match over the union run scam.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

That was the era of lifetime employment and rewards for productivity, when Capitalism had to prove itself as an ideological battled played out across the Globe. Unconditional support of Capitalism was rewarded with financial stability and comfort. Capitalism won, and they no longer feel any need to prove anything.

i hear your point and i do agree that western govts. played with the toggle switch for decades.

did capitalism win or did shareholder value win? jack welch over adam smith. the same 1%ers who ghostwrite legislation telling us they are free market capitalists, but deny canadian drugs? demonize labor, as to not allow a check and balance between capital and labor?

as far as $3 million 401ks or we would have $1 million 401ks.....i get the points, but no need to exaggerate.

 

[Bob Owens]

Socialized risk but privatized gains

 

[john john]

Samuelson said they took it to the Lawyers and there was no way out-but they found a way out of the CWA deal and I know if it was Local 100 that was going to be split he would have found a way out.

Bob what do you mean by” the CWA deal “

 

[swamt]

wow..considering that there is a max amount of money allowed in per year/modest 'catch-up' and given the fact that the market took huge hits in 99, 01, 2008...etc...$3 million is an advertisement for the 401k.

the wealthy in the usa allowed us to use their former tax shelter after they decided that blue-collar workers will fund their own pensions.

forbes did a 30 year special. in 1983, nearly 90 out of forbes' top 100 american companies offered a pension plan. in 2013, 4 out of forbes' top 100 american companies offered one.

so yes, a 401k/ira is the only choice for many.

Some with the higher numbers have been here over 30 years. And my numbers were all their accounts not just the 401K account. Ex: 401K, P/S, IRA's, SS ect... They are people who play the market sometimes on a daily basis. Too much up and down for me, watching them stress out not every day but everytime a tumble rolls out is depressing to watch at times. The reason I wanted to mention these folks is the fact that they control their accounts with the 401K verses the pensions that the unions or companies control. No you can't control the markets, but you can take control of your 401K when the markets dictate so, with the pensions your just along for the ride hoping and praying that someone who manages your accounts are doing the right things.

 

[swamt]

Point is, 401k is not the perfect situation. As a society, we have allowed Corporate America to sell us on a 2 legged stool of retirement when it should be a 3 legged stool. Google 3 legged stool for retirement. It's a shame it is to this point where we are conditioned as a society to settle for the 2 way approach to retirement.

P. Rez

I don't see in here where anyone is recommending or considering just a 2 way stool for retirement, not sure where you got that. The third leg is up to the individual. SS/401K/IRA for self/IRA for spouse/Spouses SS. As you see here my stool will be a 5 legger of solid incoming income. Not to mention the inheritance from spouses family and inheritance from my family, but we never bring those into our calculations because all that could be long gone by the time they live them out. I never once heard anyone out here say that the 401K replaces the pensions of the past. But it does take the place with other investments (including real estate) in the portfolio, over pensions controled by a union or company period.

 

[swamt]

Be blunt it saves time. I don't recall 700 convincing anyone, I seem to recall him saying we don't need to vote and should not be allowed to vote. Our Union said we would get to vote. Don't recall saying that I didn't believe you, only repeating what we were told. Here is the thing, what could we have done about it anyway? The only way to stop it would have been to have a card drive and file within that time frame. Who had the resources for that? The last AMFA card drive I believe they allocated around $8000 for the drive.

Bob, that was the entire reason the unions were promising a vote verbally and refused to put it in writing and kept pointing to the "Q and A" reference on the unions web site unsigned by anyone. They wanted to keep the members from that truth so the card drive would idle down. IF they would have from the beginning told you guys that you will be forced into this asso without a vote months prior to it happening you guys would have had a record card drive and AMFA would have been your represenative union at this time. This is also why the international would never put it in writing so that they could not get sued for FTR and removed after the asso was forced in place. Once I posted that the NMB said, "The NMB has no jurisdiction over that association vote, the unions will be handling the voting" So, therefore the union enforced the asso because they knew it would get voted down in flames. You and every single member at AA should have taken the time and followed up with the NMB, just like I did, to verify, instead of listening to the unions that needed to save their butts from being removed.
Bob, to this day I never believe what AMFA tells me 100%, I still get verification on everything. Anyone can you you anything, ask them to put it in writing, if they refuse then it's not true.

 

[swamt]

i hear your point and i do agree that western govts. played with the toggle switch for decades.

did capitalism win or did shareholder value win? jack welch over adam smith. the same 1%ers who ghostwrite legislation telling us they are free market capitalists, but deny canadian drugs? demonize labor, as to not allow a check and balance between capital and labor?

as far as $3 million 401ks or we would have $1 million 401ks.....i get the points, but no need to exaggerate.

Not exaggeration. I know 2 guys here over 30 and 35 years both have 3 plus. One started in his teens. The other at 22. Still here with about 5-10 years left to go. Several mechanics have left Southwest with over 1 mil. several. It can be done when your focused on it.

 

[WeAAsles]

Bob, that was the entire reason the unions were promising a vote verbally and refused to put it in writing and kept pointing to the "Q and A" reference on the unions web site unsigned by anyone. They wanted to keep the members from that truth so the card drive would idle down. IF they would have from the beginning told you guys that you will be forced into this asso without a vote months prior to it happening you guys would have had a record card drive and AMFA would have been your represenative union at this time. This is also why the international would never put it in writing so that they could not get sued for FTR and removed after the asso was forced in place. Once I posted that the NMB said, "The NMB has no jurisdiction over that association vote, the unions will be handling the voting" So, therefore the union enforced the asso because they knew it would get voted down in flames. You and every single member at AA should have taken the time and followed up with the NMB, just like I did, to verify, instead of listening to the unions that needed to save their butts from being removed.
Bob, to this day I never believe what AMFA tells me 100%, I still get verification on everything. Anyone can you you anything, ask them to put it in writing, if they refuse then it's not true.

And myself and the dearly and unfortunately departed 700 kept telling "these people" that there wouldn't be a vote. And we told "them" why. But what do I know. I'm just a little Ramp Rat, Samsonite shifter who I guess was just a little smarter than "you". Ha Ha "I TOLD YOU SO"

 

[chilokie1]

And myself and the dearly and unfortunately departed 700 kept telling "these people" that there wouldn't be a vote. And we told "them" why. But what do I know. I'm just a little Ramp Rat, Samsonite shifter who I guess was just a little smarter than "you". Ha Ha "I TOLD YOU SO"

Do you believe we should have had the right to voice our opinion by voting?

 

[swamt]

Do you believe we should have had the right to voice our opinion by voting?

He's a lying MoFo. He was indicating and telling people that they WOULD be able to vote on this asso. He was the cheerleader for the union to get a vote out and it never happened. I do believe all the threads are still available to research. Although the original one has been locked I think they can be looked at, check it out... BTW, why do you think 700 and WT have been removed from this forum? I rest my case...

 

[P. REZ]

I don't see in here where anyone is recommending or considering just a 2 way stool for retirement, not sure where you got that. The third leg is up to the individual. SS/401K/IRA for self/IRA for spouse/Spouses SS. As you see here my stool will be a 5 legger of solid incoming income. Not to mention the inheritance from spouses family and inheritance from my family, but we never bring those into our calculations because all that could be long gone by the time they live them out. I never once heard anyone out here say that the 401K replaces the pensions of the past. But it does take the place with other investments (including real estate) in the portfolio, over pensions controled by a union or company period.

swamt,

Google 3 legged stool of retirement. That would be pension, 401k and SS.

 

[WeAAsles]

Do you believe we should have had the right to voice our opinion by voting?

YES 100%. But speaking for myself I didn't want the vote the way the NMB would have made us do it with the "No Union" option attached. For Fleet Service I think that option would be a slow massacre if that happened and for Maintenance (My opinion) you would slowly have a lot more outsourcing then you would have without one. You would eventually be where DL Mechanics are now. Very well compensated (Mostly Line Maintenance) jobs yes but a lot less of them than we currently have at AA. More overhaul would be shipped out to cheaper Countries.

I wish we had had a vote for the Association before they just shoved it down our throats yes. I wish they had been able to sell (convince, prove) to us the Association was a GREAT idea but no I don't believe it was really thought of as being for OUR benefit more than for the benefit of people in and holding positions.

To "me" the Association will ultimately prove itself if they bring us back great (realistic) JCBA's against what our industry peers have and get. AND AND AND if they work together on things in the intervening years and not just go their separate ways and come back together when it's Contract time again. (Unfortunately my money is on them going their separate ways)

 

[Traymark]

Google 3 legged stool of retirement. That would be pension, 401k and SS.

Still trying to sell Prez?

Breaking News: The vast Majority of LAA already has a 3 legged stool. Pension (frozen, but still superior to the IAMPF) 401K, SS.

Thank you for playing.

 

[WeAAsles]

He's a lying MoFo. He was indicating and telling people that they WOULD be able to vote on this asso. He was the cheerleader for the union to get a vote out and it never happened. I do believe all the threads are still available to research. Although the original one has been locked I think they can be looked at, check it out... BTW, why do you think 700 and WT have been removed from this forum? I rest my case...

In the beginning (just like everyone else) I thought we would get to vote because that's what the TWU (Jim Little) told us. But as time went on and I "listened" to people and started "reading" things I began to realize that "Holy Crap I don't think we're going to get to vote"

And at first like everyone else I hated the idea of this Association. I thought it was "Huh WTF" but to give the dude credit it was NYer who layed it out pretty simple for me when he said to me "Do you want more heartache and hatred like the TWA issue" Magnify that by 10. Jeez man NO I don't want that. Who cares about the particulars but we have to this day still some pretty pissed off TWA people out there and I can understand at least why they're pissed. (Not saying I agree with their opinions though)

Yea go ahead and do that research. I think it was 700 who figured it out first and I went along for the ride. But yes he (and me a little) had some knock down drag outs with you saying a few months before it happened that we were not going to get to vote. (Go ahead search it out)

HE was right. YOU were wrong.

And is this now going to be an eternal rehash anyway? Too many eternal rehashes here on Forums already and they're all very counterproductive.