The Jesus Gun

[Veritas]

Biblical references on rifle sights have been an open secret among soldiers. But it’s become an embarrassment for the Pentagon, causing Michigan gunmaker Trijicon to send ‘removal kits.’

U.S. Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret 'Jesus' Bible Codes

'Jesus Guns': Two More Countries Rethink Using Weapons with Secret Bible References

The sights are used by U.S. troops and in the training of Iraqi and Afghan soldiers. The model numbers inscribed on the scopes include coded references to New Testament verses.

U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious "Crusade" in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents.

A Marine Corps spokesperson told ABC News Tuesday that the Corps was concerned about the markings and considering what action to take. "We are aware of the issue and are concerned with how this may be perceived," Capt. Geraldine Carey, a spokesperson for the Marine Corps, said in a statement. "We will meet with the vendor to discuss future sight procurements." Carey said that when the initial deal was made in 2005 it was the only product that met the Corps needs.

Hold The Hallelujah: The Perils Of Rifles And Religion

By branding weapons with Christian messages, there is a deep and ugly blending of religion, politics and bloodshed, and it has unwittingly painted our government and military with the embarrassing language of "crusade."

America is largely composed of people who consider themselves Christian, separated by various interpretations of the same book. But I did not go onward as a Christian soldier. I went forth as an American, a Marine. I was sent by my country to fight a threat, and thereafter with the best intentions of democracy, not theocracy.

Our efforts in the Middle East were complicated enough, and small symbols are examined carefully by our opponents. Based on my understanding of the teachings of Christ, he would be very disappointed to see his Gospel assigned to war of any kind in the first place.

 

[Garfield1966]

Old news. This was mentioned in a different thread when it came out a few weeks ago. The manufacturer has decided that they like Uncle Sam's tax dollars and have decided to remove the inscriptions from future optics sold to the US and has offered a retro fit kit to fix existing optics. Problem solved.

This issue does beg the question of how deeply felt their religious beliefs were in the first place if they are willing to remove the references in order to keep the lucrative contract.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I don't see the issue/problem??

Didn't the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces state that we are a nation that clings to it's guns and religion?

So given Komrad Obama's statement above coupled with the fact that Christianity is the majority religion in our country doesn't it seem perfectly appropriate that "Jesus" codes would be inscribed on our weaponry?

 

[Garfield1966]

Firstly the comment was made in reference to the voters in PA and the mid west, not the entire country. Secondly, it does not matter that christians are the majority religion in this country. By placing religious references on the optics it violates the 1st amendment of church and state, it puts the military in a compromising position in Iraq and Afghanistan. Since my non christian tax dollars help pay for those optics, can I put my own saying on them as well?

We live in a republic not a democracy. The majority does not have absolute control and minorities have equal rights under the 14th amendment.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Firstly the comment was made in reference to the voters in PA and the mid west, not the entire country. Secondly, it does not matter that christians are the majority religion in this country. By placing religious references on the optics it violates the 1st amendment of church and state, it puts the military in a compromising position in Iraq and Afghanistan. Since my non christian tax dollars help pay for those optics, can I put my own saying on them as well?

We live in a republic not a democracy. The majority does not have absolute control and minorities have equal rights under the 14th amendment.

Oh I know, just having fun.

Many of you may not know this but Barack Obama is actually Caucasian. His skin is brown because he's full of shite, morning noon and night.

 

[joanne]

Firstly the comment was made in reference to the voters in PA and the mid west, not the entire country. Secondly, it does not matter that christians are the majority religion in this country. By placing religious references on the optics it violates the 1st amendment of church and state, it puts the military in a compromising position in Iraq and Afghanistan. Since my non christian tax dollars help pay for those optics, can I put my own saying on them as well?

We live in a republic not a democracy. The majority does not have absolute control and minorities have equal rights under the 14th amendment.

Garfield,

(respectfully)......I'm thinking that you only thought that ....that CRAP Manifest Destiny was only "In vogue" when our young CHRISTIAN country was massacring Indian Women and children !

 

[Tug McGroin]

Old news. This was mentioned in a different thread when it came out a few weeks ago. The manufacturer has decided that they like Uncle Sam's tax dollars and have decided to remove the inscriptions from future optics sold to the US and has offered a retro fit kit to fix existing optics. Problem solved.

This issue does beg the question of how deeply felt their religious beliefs were in the first place if they are willing to remove the references in order to keep the lucrative contract.

The manufacturer has decided that they like Uncle Sam's tax dollars

Are you talking about the currency that says "In God We Trust" on it?

 

[Garfield1966]

Are you talking about the currency that says "In God We Trust" on it?

No but that is an issue as well. Unfortunately it has been on there (paper currency) since the 50's IIRC due to the communist paranoia of the time. People have just grown to accept religions presence on out currency.

Just because one person get away with a crime does not mean it's not a crime. Just because there is one situation (there are more but just for arguments sake I'll stick with one) where religious inroads to secular society does not mean that it is OK or that other transgressions should be accepted.

The 14th is very clear about all people being treated equally. Since I pay taxes for those optics, I get to put my references on them as well or no one does. Cannot have it both ways.

 

[tech2101]

Hold The Hallelujah: The Perils Of Rifles And Religion

That was a very provocative narrative by Mr. Benjamin Bush on the subject rifle scopes and the biblical reference. All should listen. I also heard it on NPR yesterday. He truly gets it.

 

[Tug McGroin]

Firstly the comment was made in reference to the voters in PA and the mid west, not the entire country. Secondly, it does not matter that christians are the majority religion in this country. By placing religious references on the optics it violates the 1st amendment of church and state, it puts the military in a compromising position in Iraq and Afghanistan. Since my non christian tax dollars help pay for those optics, can I put my own saying on them as well?

We live in a republic not a democracy. The majority does not have absolute control and minorities have equal rights under the 14th amendment.

Trijicon should immediately take steps to correct this horrible travesty. I suggest a three stage approach:

1) Issue a field modification kit that consists of a small piece of anti-subliminal religious message radiation tape (electrical tape) that will block the offensive “Jesus codeâ€￾ from being transmitted into uncharted radical Islamic strongholds.

2) Eliminate the colon from the string of letters and numbers in their manufacture code embossed on the scope (i.e. 2COR4:6 to 2COR46).

3) Write a strongly worded letter to the ACLU and other groups of pathetic paranoid atheist morons reminding them of the fact at Trijicon’s has the constitutional right to emboss any combination of numbers, letters and characters in their manufacture code irrespective of the “perceivedâ€￾ religious connotation.

 

[Garfield1966]

They are :

In its statement on Thursday, Trijicon said it would immediately “stop putting references to Scripture on all products manufactured for the U.S. militaryâ€￾ and would provide kits for removing lettering on existing weapons. The company said it would follow the same policy for purchases by other national militaries.

NY Times

Colon or not, it's still a reference and will not pass muster for the US armed forces.

Well, yes and no. I do not believe anyone has said they cannot put the codes on the scopes if they so desire. As far as I am aware they can paint them florescent green and put Elmer Fudd on them. However, if Trijicon wants to keep their very lucrative contracts with the US military their products must conform to military requirements. I think it is funny what a few hundred million dollars will do to ones moral perspective and commitments. Seems by their decision to acquiesce, money is more important than their 'core beliefs'.

They can write all the letters they want to all the pathetic atheist morns like my self that they choose too. I will merely point out that they are free to seek alternate buyers for their optics. How ever if they want to continue to receive the hundreds of millions of tax payer dollars, they and their fellow delusional religious whack jobs need to keep their beliefs private, or at least off the products they sell the USM. After that I will place their letter in the recycle bin for a tues pick up.

 

[tech2101]

Trijicon’s has the constitutional right to emboss any combination of numbers, letters and characters in their manufacture code irrespective of the “perceivedâ€￾ religious connotation.

They have the right to sell all the scopes they want with that embossed on them...not to the U.S.A. DOD.

Somehow I think that what they did was not in the Scope of Work for the contract they signed with them, hence the immediate backpedaling by the firm.

I have an idea. If you are the entrepreneurial type, buy all the ones they have made that they cannot use and sell them on eBay.

 

[Tug McGroin]

They have the right to sell all the scopes they want with that embossed on them...not to the U.S.A. DOD.

Somehow I think that what they did was not in the Scope of Work for the contract they signed with them, hence the immediate backpedaling by the firm.

I have an idea. If you are the entrepreneurial type, buy all the ones they have made that they cannot use and sell them on eBay.

They have the right to sell all the scopes they want with that embossed on them...not to the U.S.A. DOD.

Really? Says who?

Let's say Trijicon replaces the referenced “Jesus†code “2COR4:6†with code “REV13-1-10†and continues to sell the scope to the US Government.

Is the new code a reference to Revelation chapter 13, verses 1 thru 10, or does it represent the current modification status of the scope per Trijicon revision 13, implemented January 2010?

Just because an Atheist perceives a string of numbers and letters to reference a bible verse doesn’t make it so. There are literally thousands of letters and numbers, when arranged in specific order, that could be perceived as a reference to a bible verse. Get over it.

Trijicon’s has the constitutional right to emboss any combination of numbers and letters, in any order they choose, as their manufacture code irrespective of the “perceived†religious connotation. They can even sell the scopes to the US Government.

You have no case.

 

[Garfield1966]

I'm going to take a guess and say the DoD says so. That and the fact that it is really in poor taste but that's just my opinion.

Let's say that they the DoD does not have a set way of having inventory numbered and ID'd. Had the company been using that format since the beginning or even for a few years they may have a case to say it's just coincidence but they have not and were they to switch now to your plan it would deep sixed just as their previous method was.

Did you miss the part where they acknowledged that the references were religious? They admitted it. Kind of nukes your argument out of the water. Aside from that, I believe I read that the DoD is very specific in how inventory get's ID and in what format it does it.

No one is arguing that a company can do as it chooses with it's product. How ever when you are selling to the DoD which is funded by tax dollars, you damn will better keep your religion out of it. OH yea, did you also miss the fact that this 'deeply religious' company sold out to the dollar and agreed to remove said admitted? references? I guess a few hundred million dollars worth of contracts beets jesus this time around. That's some good old religious values for you.

 

[joanne]

Maybe they could change the Inscriptions to(like our US money)..."In God we trust")
"In (a) God we trust" would suit me better.
Just checked my "stash" (bills/coins) to see if there was any "writings" of.."In jesus we trust".
There wasn't thankfully.

The bible to me is a History book ! Nothing More, nothing Less.

It always amazes me (refering to the bible again) the arrogance of christianity with their......"1/8th of the total pages in the bible"............"trumps" the other...7/8ths of this book !

I'd love to know what Constantine was SMOKING, back around 300+ AD.