The unions are coming, the unions are coming!
- Thread starter bagboy
- Start date
...I wonder as well...... Me being a Delta F/A with 20 years. I shouldn't get full seniority?
I can only pray that this "marriage" will be formed after the KLM/Air France merger. KEEP
the workgroups SEPERATE!
Airlinelifer
Senior
- Jan 10, 2008
- 333
- 142
I wouldnt want it any other way BABABOOY. Full seniority or date of hire seniority being dovetailed so you bring your years of service up to the table and let the chips fall where they may... and the AF/KLM model would just be fine with me!...Good luck to all my fellow Northwest Airlines employees and all the Delta employees,,, were sure going to need it!
Kev3188
Veteran
Current active count for ESE's (ramp service) at NWA is 5,155... That's an "all in" count including FT'ers, PT'ers, and Crew Chiefs.
Current active count for CSA's is 3,480. This # also includes QSA's and WorldClub reps.
8635 total...
Not included in these totals: IAM represented Reservation agents, stock clerks, plant protection, sim. techs, or clerical.
metopower
Veteran
- Nov 28, 2006
- 932
- 313
You seem to have knowledge of both groups. Can you tell me the differnces in pay between the two groups. Do you know the what the rewards were for coming out of BK were for both groups. Both went into bk and came out around the same time so a comparison between the two outcomes might show the values of union representation for the groups.
I doubt it. The NWA FA’s are as confused as to their representation as are the mechanics. Best thing for the merger would be that everyone support unions and work under the auspicious work rules handed out by Delta. Of course this would mean dumping the NWA management team for those whom can manage people without intimidation and fear.
Not saying unions are bad but they are inefficient in handling common sense and dynamic situations. Work rules and work scope are good for training and job specific protection but when it crosses the boundaries of common sense, it should be ignored. I’m sure all of us that has worked in this industry can site examples of this scenario. Where there is an uncommon/unusual shortage of rampers that cannot keep up while AMT’s stand and watch because it is not in their scope to help load the aircraft. For an R&E to stand looking at the airplane waiting for an AMT to open a panel. Where an AMT is looking at replacing a component but cannot find and R&E. When a part is sitting on a cart for an AOG and there are no stores personnel to deliver it, but no one else can touch it.
This is insane!
Good Luck!
B) UT
Not saying unions are bad but they are inefficient in handling common sense and dynamic situations. Work rules and work scope are good for training and job specific protection but when it crosses the boundaries of common sense, it should be ignored. I’m sure all of us that has worked in this industry can site examples of this scenario. Where there is an uncommon/unusual shortage of rampers that cannot keep up while AMT’s stand and watch because it is not in their scope to help load the aircraft. For an R&E to stand looking at the airplane waiting for an AMT to open a panel. Where an AMT is looking at replacing a component but cannot find and R&E. When a part is sitting on a cart for an AOG and there are no stores personnel to deliver it, but no one else can touch it.
This is insane!
Good Luck!
B) UT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"meto",
As you speak about the "dual" BK's......Do you get a "sniff" of anything Unusual/coincidental ??
h34r: Anderson/Steenland and NW-BOD's have known each other for a looooog time.
IMHO, this "baby" was conceived when Anderson was at UHC(United health Care) :down:
metopower
Veteran
- Nov 28, 2006
- 932
- 313
NBB...Concieved by Grinstein about 3yrs. ago. This is a Skyteam dream ....I think that it has been a goal that brought Anderson back into the picture because unlike Steenland he is someone that can work with both cultures. When Anderson expressed interrest in returning to the airline bus two years ago at a chance meeting with NWA ALPA reps in MIA ..They (ALPA ) approached Steenland about bringing him back in some copacity....We know the answer to that... and if DAL is the driving force then Anderson will be the leader of a combined company. The smell has been on the air for a long time.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"meto",
As you speak about the "dual" BK's......Do you get a "sniff" of anything Unusual/coincidental ??
Anderson/Steenland and NW-BOD's have known each other for a looooog time.
IMHO, this "baby" was conceived when Anderson was at UHC(United health Care) :down:
Kev3188
Veteran
Well, I'm certainly no "expert" on DL, but here's what I would say:
Base rate (topped out):
NWA: $18.15/hr.- includes .10/hr. line pay
Lead override: $1.25/hr.
5 years to top out if hired before current CBA was ratified. 10 year top out if hired after.
Pre BK wage was $20.20/hr., and could (depending on shift) include shift diff. of .51, .58 or .61 an hour.
Also had longevity pay of .01/hr. per year of service up to 15 years.
Base rate alone is 10.5 % less than it was pre BK
DL: $3161.72/monthly (works out to $18.27/hr.)
10.5 year scale.
I'm told this represents a 20% loss compared to 2004.
Scope:
NWA: Covers all ramp functions, including freight and cargo handling, airstarts, cleaning,and deicing.Also includes towing, pushbacks in locations with out maintenance.
DL: ????? Not sure, but I know in PDX most all of the above were farmed out to Delta Staffing Services (now called DGS?)
NWA: Mainline Customer service and ramp in 40 locations.
Previously, there were CSA's in 100+, and ramp in 65.
DL: No idea on CSA's, but as mentioned by others, ramp exists only in 14-15 cities (I had counted 13, but I'll go with the higher number).
One thing that may be huge coming up is the ability to exercise your seniority. At NWA if you're displaced, you can go anywhere and/or displace anyone your seniority can hold, not just a city with open spots.
When DL closed PDX, I know they ramp staff were only given the choice of going to ATL or the NYC area. Not sure why the other staffed cities weren't an option, but I was told by them that it was because that' where the only open positions were.
If I were a "fence sitter," this alone would make me more comfortable with the system/work rules at NWA.
Post BK stuff:
NWA: We received a payout from an unsecured claim the IAM sold on the open market. Each person's take was different, as it was based on your W2 earnngs for a set period, but for me it was worth approx. 14k. I would consider myself "typical" (Full time, topped out, etc.).
We also have profit sharing paid on an annual basis based on net profit. Again, based on your income, but mine was $972 last year.
There is a Performance Incentive Plan paid quarterly based on meeting specific operational metrics. Mine is usually around $125.
DL: I believe they also received a "bonus" of some sort. I remember reading an article that stated that it worked out to around 12K per person. I think it was also posted somewhere here in the DL forum, but I'll have to dig deeeeeep to find it.
Hopefully, this is at least some of what you were looking for?
2BlacknBlue
Senior
- Oct 4, 2007
- 327
- 47
I applaud the efforts of the Delta Flight Attendants who are trying to organize a union on the property. With all this merger talk I suggest that Delta Flight Attendant's rethink the timing of their vote on the AFA. When it comes to seniority integration for Flight Attendants Delta has always been very fair and equitable. This was proven during the Western merger and the acquisition of PanAm's European network. AFA represents the Flight Attendants of both United and Northwest, their policy is date of hire, no ifs ands or buts. It's time to look out for yourselves, Delta will actually give you a better deal than AFA will. With either a Northwest or United merger AFA will have to hold a vote to represent the combined work force. It would be foolish for the Delta Flight Attendants to vote on AFA at this time. Dont' let AFA bully you into to organizing and voting right now. In December of last year the U.S. President signed into law the Alleghany-Mohawk Seniority Provision. This requires two airlines merging to offer a "fair and equitable" seniority integration. Don't let AFA tell you that they are the only entity who can protect your seniority. Get a seniority merge from Delta, not date-of-hire from AFA, then once merged vote for the AFA...Look out for yourselves first.
donttouchthebeauty
Veteran
- Jan 11, 2006
- 545
- 0
Will DAL, give them better pay, will DAL give them their own seniority list to look at and publish it?? Can DAL, take what they give their employess at any moment, without negotiation?? How would you like it if your employer could terminate you at any moment for any reason?? Things to consider, DAL did not Fairly integrate Pan Amers... They had to interview for their job... Also, AFA ONLY MERGERS DOH WITH ANOTHER AFA CARRIER.... They would be smart to vote for a union whether it be AFA or another bargaining agent... They all seem to have their good and bad points... However, AFA DOES NOT HAVE TO INTEGRATE DAL F/A's DOH SINCE THEY ARE NOTTT AFA.... Yes, now their is a law, and fair and equitable is in the eye of the beholder, lets take a look a look at the US Airways pilots that had a 3rd party decide to "fairly" integrate them... I personally would not want to give DAL f/a's DOH for simple fact they are not part of our union, therefore they do not go by our C&Bs..... OH BUT WAIT, I forgot, their mgmt told them their seniority would be protected... That is suck a riot....
Airlinelifer
Senior
- Jan 10, 2008
- 333
- 142
Great Post Kev, the more information that is passed between the two airlines employees the easier it is to compare both companies. What I'd like to know is the benefits package that Delta Ramp and Customer Service have. I'd like to know about their retirement pension, 401k, or if they have both. Their medical, dental, is it an HMO or traditional type insurance coverage?, single & family costs. Profit sharing, flight benefits. Work rules, layoff protection, transferring to other stations, the list goes on and on. If this merger becomes reality I'd like to have some information on these important issues.
Maybe a Delta employee will be able to answer this post,, your information would be much appreciated.....
George NWA FLL ESE
AA1016--you are either daffy or a visitor from the ranks of Delta's anti-union Inflite team. I believe the latter (and a little of the former)as you regurgitate here what is on Inflite's "I Believe In Our Delta" weblink.Why don't you ask the PanAm f/a's if they thought Delta was fair and equitable back in 1991. And secondly, what is wrong with date of hire?? That is the ONLY true fair and equitable way to merge seniorities. "Fair and equitable" is subjective. Date of hire is based on simple fact. I think we both know which holds the most water.
I believe what AA1016 was stating is, what would be BEST for DELTA F/A's.
The PanAm AQUISITION (not merger as some believe) was fair and equitable for Delta F/A's.
In reading what AA1016 has to say, it does make sense. No union now, the worse we can get is DOH,
and hope for something better i.e slot in. and then vote in a Union. I think we need a Union, however
I would be reluctant if I knew it was going to be run by either NW/UA flight attendants. JMHO
Similar threads
