The unions are coming, the unions are coming!

[JakesWorld]

Luke

I am not accusing the DL BOS F/A being a liar. I am sure that the figures she used were given to her by the AFA. I was simply asking that someone representing the AFA could clarify their figures, as they don't make any sense. I have no disrespect toward any DL AFA activist, they have made a choice just as I now have, its just that there seems to be something wrong with the information in the newsletter. The same people sending out these newsletters are accusing DL of lying and being less than factual. I have no doubt DL will pass on information that is mostly in their favor. At the same time I would hope that the AFA would pass along only facts. Facts present a much better argument than anything else.
At this time I do have a bit of a prejudice, as I can't logically figure out where these dollar amounts came from. If AFA can prove that their figures are correct and their carriers are making these salaries for the number of hours listed, they can count on a yes vote from me. If not than I stand by my earlier comment, I expect DL (or any company) to err on their side, I expect a labor union (AFA) to be nothing but honest with its members or potential members. If they can't be truthful now, how could I expect them to be truthful when representing me. Just my opinion.

 

[JakesWorld]

Seems to me the easiest way to compare (taking any round-up or round-down out of the equation) is to do direct comparisons based on the figures that are currently posted for each airline (except SW, since their pay is configured a different way). For example,


1. What does a DL f/a working 85 hrs a month make compared to NW, UAL, US etc , who are also working 85 hrs a month?

2. What does a DL f/a make if you add in domestic per diem compared to other airlines, based on 85 hrs?

3. What does a DL f/a make if you add in international per diem compared to other airlines, based on 85 hrs?

4. What does a DL f/a make if you add in OBL (purser) compared to other airlines, based on 85 hrs?

and so on and so forth....

DLSam

If a F/A flies 85 hours per month for 1 year the salaries are as follows:
NW-$40555.20
UA-$39351.60
HP-$38341.80
US-$39504.60
DL-$41891.40

As I am sure you know per diems will vary based on the trips you actually fly for that 85 hours, and OBL (purser) pay will vary based on domestic or international, A ($5.40) or B ($2.70), wide-body or narrow-body.

 

[DLSam]

DLSam

If a F/A flies 85 hours per month for 1 year the salaries are as follows:
NW-$40555.20
UA-$39351.60
HP-$38341.80
US-$39504.60
DL-$41891.40

As I am sure you know per diems will vary based on the trips you actually fly for that 85 hours, and OBL (purser) pay will vary based on domestic or international, A ($5.40) or B ($2.70), wide-body or narrow-body.

Thanks for the info JakesWorld..just for clarification's sake..these figures are based on top of scale pay right? Also based on a ordinary year (no bankruptcy payouts, no extra's for meeting goals, etc)?

I saw the afa math, and am also trying to figure out how those figures are achieved as it seems based on each airlines payscales the real numbers would be quite easy to figure out.

Any info on what CAL or AA would get paid based on a straight 85 hrs?

 

[DLSam]

Hi DLSam:

You asked 3 great quetions. The answer to all three of those questions is that AFA "recommends" date-of-hire integration in those scenarios. The reason AFA can only "recommend" in these scenarios is because if both groups are not represented by AFA, than the other parties' union or the other parties' 'employer' gets to push their own agenda. For example, if NWA FAs merged with Delta, we (AFA) would recommend date-of-hire, however Delta executives may completely oppose that idea and could insist on the issue going to arbitration. Once it goes to arbitration, than there is no telling how the arbitrator could rule. However, given the most recent example with the America West/USAir pilots, where the larger and more senior group (the USAir pilots) lost more than decade of seniority to the smaller more junior group, it would be a dangerous gamble for Delta FAs. The reason is because the DL FAs are more senior than we are -- since we had 1000 plus early out retirements over the past few years, as well as over 800 new hires added to our list in 2007.

AFA's complete merger policy can be found here; http://www.afanet.org/cb/default.asp?id=61

Warm Regards,

Danny Campbell, NWA FA & AFA Organizer
[email protected]

Hi Danny,

Do you happen know of any fair and equitable situations that involved f/a's? Comparing us to pilots who have the left/right seat issue, as well as only being able to fly aircraft specific seems to be a apples and oranges kind of comparison. Any idea what happened to the f/a's over at USair?

I was also wondering how one would know for sure that DL fa/s are more senior to NW? I've been told (by a DL afa supporter who's been answering questions for me) that NW f/a's as a group are more senior. Being a Jr person (at 10yrs), I think I'm hosed either way, but would appreciate knowing the overall picture of each groups seniority.

Thanks for any and all info. I would rather know the facts even if they are not favorable to my viewpoint!!

All the best,
Sam

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

If AFA can prove that their figures are correct and their carriers are making these salaries for the number of hours listed, they can count on a yes vote from me. If not than I stand by my earlier comment, I expect DL (or any company) to err on their side, I expect a labor union (AFA) to be nothing but honest with its members or potential members. If they can't be truthful now, how could I expect them to be truthful when representing me. Just my opinion.

Jake,
If your only reason to vote "yes" is for higher salary, then you should immediately rip up the info containing your voting instructions/PIN when it arrives. Salaries slide up and down the scale constantly. I've been here almost 30 years and I remember when DL was always at the top of the scale. Then, gradually, a heavily-unionized carrier, SWA, started being #1 in pay. Then, of course we all know what's happened in the last 5 years. Now, Delta only talks of getting us up to "industry standard." NOT leading pay, but average, industry standard.
There are many other factors at play besides pay including SS offset, retirement medical benefits (AA still has medical coverage if they leave at 55 or beyond, DL has zilch.), and ACCOUNTABILITY. One ATL-based FA who wasn't for the union 6 years ago is voting 'yes' now partly based on an incident w/ scheduling where they ran pickups 2 minutes early and he was putting one in at the last minute but still before the closing time. When he saw the pickup was awarded to someone junior, all the scheduler could say was "oops...sorry." And we all know these types of things play out again and again at DL with no grievance procedure, no one held accountable for their actions.This, being a high-time turn, cost him quite a lot of money. So, please Jake, again..if you're only going to base your vote on these salary figures and nothing else in your work life, then I urge you to "give it a rip."
PS: Are you familiar with the the Delta Air Lines Retirement Committe (dalrc)? Duff Odell, whom you remember was a Regional Mgr of Inflite, now retired, is part of that group which has now come to the realization (per their letter to Congress) that they "can no longer trust Delta mgt. to do the right thing" and want certain things IN WRITING.
Take a look if you so choose. It's quite interesting.
http://dalrc.org/index.php?option=com_cont...26&Itemid=1
Just a few highlites:

While Delta says they have always treated Delta retirees fairly and did so during the bankruptcy process, one only need look at the retiree healthcare benefits at United Airlines or Northwest Airlines, both with contracts to see what a difference having it in writing made to the benefit they have compared to the benefits Delta non-pilot retirees have today. Unlike those carriers, Delta retirees have been paying higher cost for more than 5 years due to Delta's ability to increase the cost and lower the plan design pushing more of the cost to retirees each year.

Today, Delta is the only airline that I am aware of that has 4 tiers of drugs with extremely high co-pays for using the coverage and separates their retiree healthcare coverage into its own pool for determining the rates. This change began in 2002 and is responsible for the much higher cost retirees pay for their medical than those that are active.

It is time that Delta retirees had a seat at the table and were provided information on how Delta proposes to meet the obligations they have to Delta retirees with regard to their hard earned benefits, both pensions and healthcare, now and in the future.

The Delta of today does not enjoy the sense of trust at any level that was a cornerstone of the company just a few short years ago and the reason is simple, Delta people are using that "5 year look back" and it tells quite a disturbing story of a company that although then never intended, dumped earned benefits to thousands of Delta people and for those that had no contract, it was largely done without a single penny of compensation because Delta had been entrusted with the right to act on behalf of retirees without the benefit of having anything in writing.

 

[JakesWorld]

Thanks for the info JakesWorld..just for clarification's sake..these figures are based on top of scale pay right? Also based on a ordinary year (no bankruptcy payouts, no extra's for meeting goals, etc)?

I saw the afa math, and am also trying to figure out how those figures are achieved as it seems based on each airlines payscales the real numbers would be quite easy to figure out.

Any info on what CAL or AA would get paid based on a straight 85 hrs?

DLSam

All numbers quoted are based on top of the scale (domestic) at 85hrs per month.
AA-$47,450
CO-$49,713

Actually, anyone can look at these contracts on-line.

 

[JakesWorld]

Jake,
If your only reason to vote "yes" is for higher salary, then you should immediately rip up the info containing your voting instructions/PIN when it arrives. Salaries slide up and down the scale constantly. I've been here almost 30 years and I remember when DL was always at the top of the scale. Then, gradually, a heavily-unionized carrier, SWA, started being #1 in pay. Then, of course we all know what's happened in the last 5 years. Now, Delta only talks of getting us up to "industry standard." NOT leading pay, but average, industry standard.
There are many other factors at play besides pay including SS offset, retirement medical benefits (AA still has medical coverage if they leave at 55 or beyond, DL has zilch.), and ACCOUNTABILITY. One ATL-based FA who wasn't for the union 6 years ago is voting 'yes' now partly based on an incident w/ scheduling where they ran pickups 2 minutes early and he was putting one in at the last minute but still before the closing time. When he saw the pickup was awarded to someone junior, all the scheduler could say was "oops...sorry." And we all know these types of things play out again and again at DL with no grievance procedure, no one held accountable for their actions.This, being a high-time turn, cost him quite a lot of money. So, please Jake, again..if you're only going to base your vote on these salary figures and nothing else in your work life, then I urge you to "give it a rip."
PS: Are you familiar with the the Delta Air Lines Retirement Committe (dalrc)? Duff Odell, whom you remember was a Regional Mgr of Inflite, now retired, is part of that group which has now come to the realization (per their letter to Congress) that they "can no longer trust Delta mgt. to do the right thing" and want certain things IN WRITING.
Take a look if you so choose. It's quite interesting.
http://dalrc.org/index.php?option=com_cont...26&Itemid=1
Just a few highlites:

While Delta says they have always treated Delta retirees fairly and did so during the bankruptcy process, one only need look at the retiree healthcare benefits at United Airlines or Northwest Airlines, both with contracts to see what a difference having it in writing made to the benefit they have compared to the benefits Delta non-pilot retirees have today. Unlike those carriers, Delta retirees have been paying higher cost for more than 5 years due to Delta's ability to increase the cost and lower the plan design pushing more of the cost to retirees each year.

Today, Delta is the only airline that I am aware of that has 4 tiers of drugs with extremely high co-pays for using the coverage and separates their retiree healthcare coverage into its own pool for determining the rates. This change began in 2002 and is responsible for the much higher cost retirees pay for their medical than those that are active.

It is time that Delta retirees had a seat at the table and were provided information on how Delta proposes to meet the obligations they have to Delta retirees with regard to their hard earned benefits, both pensions and healthcare, now and in the future.

The Delta of today does not enjoy the sense of trust at any level that was a cornerstone of the company just a few short years ago and the reason is simple, Delta people are using that "5 year look back" and it tells quite a disturbing story of a company that although then never intended, dumped earned benefits to thousands of Delta people and for those that had no contract, it was largely done without a single penny of compensation because Delta had been entrusted with the right to act on behalf of retirees without the benefit of having anything in writing.

I agree with you on the retirement issues, even most unionized carriers took a hit on that. Airline employees are not the only ones having issues with retirement plans it is happening nationwide, and until our elected leaders in D.C. see this as a priority it is not going to change. Even amongst ourselves we have different opinions regarding pensions and retirement. Most young people don't see the importance of a defined benefit plan and would not be willing to give something up for it. Again, this is just my opinion. I had an issue scheduling last spring, they had awarded a move-up to someone junior to me. As the junior F/A had already been contacted and accepted the trip they would not give it to me. When I returned I sent an email to a scheduling manager stating what had transpired along with the DL policy and I was paid for the trip they gave to the other F/A, include OBL pay, while I flew a trip worth less time. Sometimes you just have to take it upon yourself to go to a higher up. Just my experience.

 

[Danny Campbell]

Jakesworld:

I will copy you on a email that I just sent to another NWA FA that questioned the same thing about the NWA figures on the newsletter written by Tracy Kali....
____________________________________________________

The calculation the Delta FAs used in their newsletters was for a DTW based FA. Her W2 earnings where as follows...

NWA Equation - 92:00 x's 12 = 1,104 hrs

1,104 x's 39.37 = $43,464.00

$43,464.00 - straight flight pay
15,000.00 - equity claim
2,200.00 - surplus payment
3,557.00 - purser/lead/per diem/profit sharing/misc.
------------
$63,557.00

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What NWA FAs need to understand is that 17,200 above (that you, I, and every other NWA FA received) when we exited bankruptcy is NOT something that Delta FAs got. So, obviously, almost all of our 2007 earnings are going to vastly outweigh those at Delta. The Delta FAs were not viewed as an 'unsecured creditor' in bankruptcy and they had no claim for any value of the concessions they took. Even worse, they were under their paycuts for a year and 1/2 before we took ANY pay cut at all.
____________________________________

In regards to the WN and Alaska contracts, you are correct that 'today' the 'hourly' pay at WN is slightly more than Alaska. While that changes at the end of this year, there are other 'costs' associated with the Alaska AFA contract that put them in the category of having the best contract in the country.

Sam: The reason we know that Delta FAs are more senior than NWA, is because our Delta/AFA database has your dates of hire and because we have full access to our own NWA seniority list. I, personally, downloaded both into an Excel spreadsheet and laid them both side by side. The seniority differential is anywhere from 10% - 20% in favor of us being more junior. This is largely because we had over 1000 FAs leave NW in our early out program, and because we hired over 800 FAs last year. In terms of "FAs" being ratio-ranked under the concept 'fair and equitable', yes I can cite many examples. Perhaps two of the most egregious examples were the National FAs and the Hughes Airwest FAs (where they were slotted in at a 1 for 3 ratio). Take yourself for example, with 10 years at Delta. Under AFA's policy, you would have MORE NWA FAs placed below you...however, under a ratio ranking, you will be very vulnerable to having LOTS of NWA FAs (junior to you) placed ahead of you.

 

[JakesWorld]

Jakesworld:

I will copy you on a email that I just sent to another NWA FA that questioned the same thing about the NWA figures on the newsletter written by Tracy Kali....
____________________________________________________

The calculation the Delta FAs used in their newsletters was for a DTW based FA. Her W2 earnings where as follows...

NWA Equation - 92:00 x's 12 = 1,104 hrs

1,104 x's 39.37 = $43,464.00

$43,464.00 - straight flight pay
15,000.00 - equity claim
2,200.00 - surplus payment
3,557.00 - purser/lead/per diem/profit sharing/misc.
------------
$63,557.00

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What NWA FAs need to understand is that 17,200 above (that you, I, and every other NWA FA received) when we exited bankruptcy is NOT something that Delta FAs got. So, obviously, almost all of our 2007 earnings are going to vastly outweigh those at Delta. The Delta FAs were not viewed as an 'unsecured creditor' in bankruptcy and they had no claim for any value of the concessions they took. Even worse, they were under their paycuts for a year and 1/2 before we took ANY pay cut at all.
____________________________________

In regards to the WN and Alaska contracts, you are correct that 'today' the 'hourly' pay at WN is slightly more than Alaska. While that changes at the end of this year, there are other 'costs' associated with the Alaska AFA contract that put them in the category of having the best contract in the country.

Sam: The reason we know that Delta FAs are more senior than NWA, is because our Delta/AFA database has your dates of hire and because we have full access to our own NWA seniority list. I, personally, downloaded both into an Excel spreadsheet and laid them both side by side. The seniority differential is anywhere from 10% - 20% in favor of us being more junior. This is largely because we had over 1000 FAs leave NW in our early out program, and because we hired over 800 FAs last year. In terms of "FAs" being ratio-ranked under the concept 'fair and equitable', yes I can cite many examples. Perhaps two of the most egregious examples were the National FAs and the Hughes Airwest FAs (where they were slotted in at a 1 for 3 ratio). Take yourself for example, with 10 years at Delta. Under AFA's policy, you would have MORE NWA FAs placed below you...however, under a ratio ranking, you will be very vulnerable to having LOTS of NWA FAs (junior to you) placed ahead of you.

Danny

Seeing as you are a representative with AFA, can I ask why the BOS F/A misrepresented the facts with the NW salary? I am assuming then that with the exception of the DL quote they all included more than just a base salary based on the hours list. Were NW F/A's awarded any NW stock upon exiting BK? While it may not have been called an equity claim at DL we received an emergence award along with DL stock. The emergence award and stock came to just above $10,000.00, why did the AFA not include this in the newsletter? This does make me ask what else has the AFA been misrepresenting to the DL F/A. We already have a DL F/A who is an AFA activist misrepresenting the facts to her own flying partners. You expect this type of thing happening in Corporate America not in a labor union....or do we?

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

I agree with you on the retirement issues, even most unionized carriers took a hit on that. Airline employees are not the only ones having issues with retirement plans it is happening nationwide, and until our elected leaders in D.C. see this as a priority it is not going to change. Even amongst ourselves we have different opinions regarding pensions and retirement. Most young people don't see the importance of a defined benefit plan and would not be willing to give something up for it. Again, this is just my opinion. I had an issue scheduling last spring, they had awarded a move-up to someone junior to me. As the junior F/A had already been contacted and accepted the trip they would not give it to me. When I returned I sent an email to a scheduling manager stating what had transpired along with the DL policy and I was paid for the trip they gave to the other F/A, include OBL pay, while I flew a trip worth less time. Sometimes you just have to take it upon yourself to go to a higher up. Just my experience.

Jake, with all due respect (and that's getting harder after a post such as this last one), you are reading, but not comprehending. You are eating, but not digesting. You are only posing here as though you have an open mind when, in fact, you have a very closed mind.
You don't think most young people are interested in a LIFETIME pension/annuity???? What, praytell, is going to compare? Your 401K?? They are great but believe me, on their own without the pension, you better be contributing A LOT to it and to your IRA. And at a FA's salary level (remember no real raises have been instituted in about 15 years) this is not going to be easy! I'm curious...just how old are you?
I would venture to say not much more than 28 as you appear to be very short-sighted which is always a hallmark of youth.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

The emergence award and stock came to just above $10,000.00, why did the AFA not include this in the newsletter? This does make me ask what else has the AFA been misrepresenting to the DL F/A. We already have a DL F/A who is an AFA activist misrepresenting the facts to her own flying partners. You expect this type of thing happening in Corporate America not in a labor union....or do we?

NOT TRUE. I received nowhere near 10K!!
Try half of that.
Danny, I wouldn't waste my time with this poser. I'm done. He's probably from that group that goes around with the NO AFA bag tags.
I've tried to be nice but I'm fed up with these types. They worm their way on to these message boards as though they are "seeking answers" only to spout their own lies and half-truths after they have accused AFA of lying.
People like this will go down with the Titanic rather than think for themselves. Their self esteem is placed in all the wrong places--their company, instead of within themselves.
JUST MY OPINION

 

[JakesWorld]

Jake, with all due respect (and that's getting harder after a post such as this last one), you are reading, but not comprehending. You are eating, but not digesting. You are only posing here as though you have an open mind when, in fact, you have a very closed mind.
You don't think most young people are interested in a LIFETIME pension/annuity???? What, praytell, is going to compare? Your 401K?? They are great but believe me, on their own without the pension, you better be contributing A LOT to it and to your IRA. And at a FA's salary level (remember no real raises have been instituted in about 15 years) this is not going to be easy! I'm curious...just how old are you?
I would venture to say not much more than 28 as you appear to be very short-sighted which is always a hallmark of youth.

Luke

Read what I wrote....I think a defined benefit plan is important. What I said was that less and less people in this country have them. Even when this topic has been discussed in various situations I am in (outside of work) most people are very passionate about their tax dollars paying for anyones pension via the PBGC. Whether we like it or not the days of defined benefits are gone. Ask most 20-30 year olds if they would rather have a higher salary now or a lower salary now with a pension later, most are going to say give me the money ow. I remember when I was in my 20's I could care less about a pension or medical insurance for that matter. Again, this is just what I see. Times have changed, there is no more gold watch after 30 years and about only 25% of Americans are covered by a defined benefit plan, those are the facts whether we like it or not. I meant no disrespect in my first post and you took it as me calling the BOS based F/A a liar, which I did not. Yes I think the entity of AFA is not telling us the truth. I also feel that they have yet to keep any of their promises to any carrier which they represent. These are my opinions and I am sorry if you don't like to hear them. They one thing that I have noticed is that a lot (not all) AFA supporters don't look at the big picture either, they are right and thats that. By the way I am 44yo and do think every American should have a defined benefit plan of some sort, I also know thats not going to happen.

 

[DLSam]

Jakesworld:

I will copy you on a email that I just sent to another NWA FA that questioned the same thing about the NWA figures on the newsletter written by Tracy Kali....
____________________________________________________

The calculation the Delta FAs used in their newsletters was for a DTW based FA. Her W2 earnings where as follows...

NWA Equation - 92:00 x's 12 = 1,104 hrs

1,104 x's 39.37 = $43,464.00

$43,464.00 - straight flight pay
15,000.00 - equity claim
2,200.00 - surplus payment
3,557.00 - purser/lead/per diem/profit sharing/misc.
------------
$63,557.00

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What NWA FAs need to understand is that 17,200 above (that you, I, and every other NWA FA received) when we exited bankruptcy is NOT something that Delta FAs got. So, obviously, almost all of our 2007 earnings are going to vastly outweigh those at Delta. The Delta FAs were not viewed as an 'unsecured creditor' in bankruptcy and they had no claim for any value of the concessions they took. Even worse, they were under their paycuts for a year and 1/2 before we took ANY pay cut at all.
____________________________________

In regards to the WN and Alaska contracts, you are correct that 'today' the 'hourly' pay at WN is slightly more than Alaska. While that changes at the end of this year, there are other 'costs' associated with the Alaska AFA contract that put them in the category of having the best contract in the country.

Sam: The reason we know that Delta FAs are more senior than NWA, is because our Delta/AFA database has your dates of hire and because we have full access to our own NWA seniority list. I, personally, downloaded both into an Excel spreadsheet and laid them both side by side. The seniority differential is anywhere from 10% - 20% in favor of us being more junior. This is largely because we had over 1000 FAs leave NW in our early out program, and because we hired over 800 FAs last year. In terms of "FAs" being ratio-ranked under the concept 'fair and equitable', yes I can cite many examples. Perhaps two of the most egregious examples were the National FAs and the Hughes Airwest FAs (where they were slotted in at a 1 for 3 ratio). Take yourself for example, with 10 years at Delta. Under AFA's policy, you would have MORE NWA FAs placed below you...however, under a ratio ranking, you will be very vulnerable to having LOTS of NWA FAs (junior to you) placed ahead of you.

Hi Danny,

How have the USair f/a's, both being afa, worked out their seniority? Was it straight DOH? Just curious, esp since the America West f/a's were so junior in comparison.

Also, with regards to my seniority the same DL afa supporter whos been answering my questions supposedly had access to the lists that you refer to and told me that I would have about 6800 NW f/a's above me and about 1000 below me based on DOH. Which leaves roughly 3-4 thousand dl f/a's under me along with only 1000 NW f/a's (hypothetically!)

I'm fine with DOH to a certain extent, if all things are equal, but in any merger the numbers change. What I'm more concerned about is relative seniority (you know..I've gotten very used to tues/wed off, no holidays, no weekends and I'd hate to see that change!!!)

I'm also wondering if DOH is the way to go, then why didn't the DL/NW pilots do that as well?

Thanks again for answering,

DLSam



I

 

[JakesWorld]

NOT TRUE. I received nowhere near 10K!!
Try half of that.
Danny, I wouldn't waste my time with this poser. I'm done. He's probably from that group that goes around with the NO AFA bag tags.
I've tried to be nice but I'm fed up with these types. They worm their way on to these message boards as though they are "seeking answers" only to spout their own lies and half-truths after they have accused AFA of lying.
People like this will go down with the Titanic rather than think for themselves. Their self esteem is placed in all the wrong places--their company, instead of within themselves.
JUST MY OPINION

Luke

Relax...Just because we see things differently means I dont have a right to an opinion?. My self esteem is in the wrong place...the company? You don't know me and I don't know you, and no nothing about me. I actually signed a card for AFA and have no changed my mind as to what "I" believe is the best course. Take a look at Danny Campbells earlier post regarding the NW F/A salary. In the recent newsletter it is being represented that all you have to do is get your years of service fly the number of hours listed and this is what the annual salary is at these other carriers. There is no mention about profit sharing, leader pay, language pay and such. If that is not a half truth I am missing something. So then these message boards are only for AFA supporters, I missed that somewhere. Also for your information we were awarded $6899.00 worth of stock (BEFORE TAXES) plus the emergence award of just a bit over $4000.00 adds up to $10,899.00 (ALL BEFORE TAXES), did you not receive the stock award? By the way, there is no need for name calling or being rude.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Luke

Read what I wrote....I think a defined benefit plan is important. What I said was that less and less people in this country have them. Even when this topic has been discussed in various situations I am in (outside of work) most people are very passionate about their tax dollars paying for anyones pension via the PBGC. Whether we like it or not the days of defined benefits are gone. Ask most 20-30 year olds if they would rather have a higher salary now or a lower salary now with a pension later, most are going to say give me the money ow. I remember when I was in my 20's I could care less about a pension or medical insurance for that matter. Again, this is just what I see. Times have changed, there is no more gold watch after 30 years and about only 25% of Americans are covered by a defined benefit plan, those are the facts whether we like it or not. I meant no disrespect in my first post and you took it as me calling the BOS based F/A a liar, which I did not. Yes I think the entity of AFA is not telling us the truth. I also feel that they have yet to keep any of their promises to any carrier which they represent. These are my opinions and I am sorry if you don't like to hear them. They one thing that I have noticed is that a lot (not all) AFA supporters don't look at the big picture either, they are right and thats that. By the way I am 44yo and do think every American should have a defined benefit plan of some sort, I also know thats not going to happen.

I read what you wrote and you DID NOT say a defined plan was important and you most certainly DID NOT say that less and less people have them. You said they weren't important to young people. Period.You are an exaggerator and a distorter about everything, including your own salary. You have ZERO credibility here. And WHO is talking about taxpayers paying for anyone's pension??? DL FAs, which we are talking about here, and I know you have a problem reading and comprehending, do NOT have their pensions with the PBGC.
And guess what about the 20-30 year olds? You said it yourself. They aren't interested in retirement as you weren't. I wasn't either at that age. That is certainly not worthy of a something to bolster your argument. And finally, in reference to your remark about young people preferring a higher salary now or a lower salary with a pension. You, sir, have BOTH...a low salary AND a frozen pension. And at your age three years ago when it was frozen (41?), you better make sure you're paid for those trips schedulers are wrongfully denying you!
I have always tried to be respectful on this forum, but in your case you deserve no respect because you are a distorter, a deceiver, a hypocrite and a brown-nosing, suck-up. Good riddance.