If you call standing up for yourself and having a big mouth a brown nosing suck-up...I am then guitly. You are right about everything, A distorter because I asked a question regarding comments made by AFA? A deceiver because I corrected the AFA's error? A hypocrite because "I" would like to stay non-union and you prefer to be part of AFA? I thought this was a simple debate and you turn it into throwing hateful comments. I apologize that you were offended.
The unions are coming, the unions are coming!
- Thread starter bagboy
- Start date
LukeAiseWalker,
I received about 11,400 (b4 taxes) last year in emergence items. A little over 8000 (393 shares) in stock ( which as you remember one could cash out that day) and a lump sum payment of 3407.44. Mine was based on 8yr pay (my employee date is end of march) as well as flying an average of 94hrs/month. It was not the same for everyone. I've flown with several f/a's who made alot more than that, based on their pay scale and flying habits, so its entirely possible and probable that JakesWorld made 10K.
For what its worth, my lump sum was $3083.22 and my total stock was $7687.10
of course this was before taxes and I "unfortunately" didn't touch the stock. So I cleared
maybe around $1800.
As far as the information out there, here is what I received from both sides. How is someone suppose
to find the REAL truth in it? And Luke, don't get personal. Can't you just disagree instead of blowing your top?
You are just falling into the stereotype of an overzealous Union person that turns many Delta F/A's off. I am sure you are better than that and can provide straight facts and let them speak for themselves without getting personal.
The following is why I keep saying that there are three sides. Somwhere in the middle is the truth.
For one, I received the
Delta/AFA Weekly Newsletter - Issue #25
I can't copy it, so if anyone can provide what she stated, would be appreaciated.
Then I received the following:
Rudy writes:
Recently I read my weekly AFA e-mail. This one was written by a Tracy Kali, a BOS based F/A. I enjoy reading literature dealing with “organizing†from both sides of the fence, Delta and the AFA. If I didn’t, who else would look out for my best interest?
Many of you may not have had the chance to read Tracy’s letter, so here’s a quick summary.
#1 - Tracy begins her letter with some dollar amounts that she quotes as “real live†figures from AFA represented F/As at five different AFA represented airlines from their W-2 forms. She shows the average hour amount flown a month, the dollar amount earned, and the number of years each flight attendant has. Tracy explicitly writes, “W-2’s don’t lie.â€
This F/A lacks much needed information when simply talking about a "W-2 form." Other factors can play into income as well; did all or some of the F/As on Tracy’s list fly in the Flight Leader position? Did all or just a portion of the F/As fly transoceanic, international, domestic, or a combination? Are some F/As counting time away from base and 401(k) contributions and company contributions as “income†while others aren’t? From a true “income†perspective, time away from base pay and 401(k) contributions are not counted on a W-2 form in Box 1 as income (unless you’re in a Roth 401(k). This can make a big difference, especially if you contribute 35% into the 401(k) like I do. My W-2 looks very meager and pitiful, but my Fidelity 401(k) statement shows the true accumulated wealth over 21 years of saving which has never been counted as “income†yet. Some F/As may put 2% in a 401(k) in 2007 while others max it out every year as I do.
Base pay and hourly pay account for most of a F/A’s income. At UAL they earn $37.82/hour and NW is at $39.76/hour at the top of the pay scale. Both of these airlines, however, don’t even see these max-amounts per hour until they finish 14 (UAL) and 15 (NW) years. Currently at DL we reach the $37 an hour mark in our 11th year of service and at the 12th year we max out at $41.06. Both UAL and NW F/As must work 2 to 3 years longer than we do to attain top pay and it’s still less per hour.
Tracy shows that a particular Delta F/A with 31 years averaged 85 hours per month and earned $42,000 in calendar year 2007. This could be true, depending how the W-2 is formulated. But if we simply multiply 1020 hours (number of hours for the year @ 85 hours a month) by $41.06 we come up with $41,881. I guess this F/A only earned hourly pay and nothing more, which is ridiculous.
#2 – Tracy writes “NW F/As negotiated 3-6% (depending on seniority and age) 401(k) contributions without any employee contribution. Delta contributes 2% with a match up to 5%. So, at my age and longevity at Delta I get 2%. At NW, I would be getting 5%.â€
What Tracy quotes is correct. But I think Tracy has it turned around, I’d say NW won the negotiation of the 3-6% contribution amount to the F/As. Let me explain. NW calculates the sum they contribute to each employee on a sliding scale basis. This calculation is figured by adding the number of years of service and your age together. If this figure is less than 40 – your contribution by NW into your 401(k) will be 3%. If the sum falls between 40-59 your contribution by NW is 4%. If the sum is between 60-79 your percentage is 5%, and any sum of age and years of service over 79 receives a 6% contribution.
You can feel free to calculate where you’d fall percentage wise. Delta’s contribution scale is simple and more to your advantage. Here’s why:
No matter how many years of service or what your age is, Delta contributes 2% and matches up to 5%. So even if I am a new hire my total potential is 7%. There are no waiting or playing scale games to maximize one’s full savings potential. Don’t forget, F/As at both Delta and NW have frozen pension plans, and all of us are finding ourselves in a sector of industry that has lost more money than it has made since the inception of commercial air travel in the late 1920s, so we must save for ourselves first. Lord knows we can’t count on Social Security or a full pension.
New hires certainly aren’t rolling in the dough, but even if a new hire starts contributing a mere 2% into their 401(k), he or she would be ahead of a NW F/A by a percentage point immediately. Saving is a good thing, and Delta gives us the incentive to save. Another aspect of money that can’t be discounted is the savings potential you have with Delta earning a higher contribution at an earlier age. These dollars, over the span of a career, can turn into hundreds of thousands dollars. NW did some good bargaining on this issue.
#3 – Tracy says, “NW F/As don’t have short term disability and there is a good reason, they don’t need it. They have a bank of up to 1200 hours. That’s more than a year of paid leave and it carries over from year to year. We may have short term disability but if given the choice, what would you negotiate?â€
What Tracy fails to mention is that to obtain that 1200-hour bank, you’d have to have 33 years of seniority without ever having called in sick a single time during those 33 years. NW F/As accrue 3 hours per month or 36 hours per year and have no separate sick time, so if you sick out on a 15 hour trip once per year, you’d be using up 15 out of those 36 hours so you’d be racking up 21 hours instead of 36 and at 33 years seniority, leaving you 693 hours, not 1200 hours. If you have ten years of seniority and had never called in sick, you’d have 360 flight hours in your bank.
Delta F/As get 42 hours per year of personal time that can be used for any reason and if you don’t use it, you can get a check at the end of year and get that money in an account with compounding interest. Delta F/As also get a Certified Time Bank with 100% pay protection after the first 7 days.
#4 - Tracy writes, “I think $43 a month is a sound investment for our future.â€
First we need to look at the past and present. The AFA hasn’t been able to save pension plans nor avoid pay cuts for their flock. As of today, for the most part, Delta is keeping me and has kept me above the cuff in more areas of compensation compared to other AFA represented F/As. I realize every one of us looks at investing differently. Tracy views paying dues every month to the AFA as an investment for her future. I don’t. The AFA cannot guarantee me more money in the major areas of compensation for which Delta is now paying me. The AFA can’t even keep UAL or NW above my threshold and those members are stuck doling out $43 a month for the service, while still earning less than I do. Pick how many years you have with DL – invest $43 a month into an account and see how much you’d have, and this account has your name on it, not the AFA’s*.
5 yr - $3,168
10 yr - $7,823
15 yr - $14,662
20 yr - $24,711
25 yr - $39,477
30 yr - $61,173
35 yr - $93,051
40 yr - $139,891
*The above figures are based on an investment with an average return of 8% with a yearly deposit of $500 compounding once a year. The stock market return over the past century, including dividends, has been between 11% to 12%.
Rudy Schober
of course this was before taxes and I "unfortunately" didn't touch the stock. So I cleared
maybe around $1800.
As far as the information out there, here is what I received from both sides. How is someone suppose
to find the REAL truth in it? And Luke, don't get personal. Can't you just disagree instead of blowing your top?
You are just falling into the stereotype of an overzealous Union person that turns many Delta F/A's off. I am sure you are better than that and can provide straight facts and let them speak for themselves without getting personal.
The following is why I keep saying that there are three sides. Somwhere in the middle is the truth.
For one, I received the
Delta/AFA Weekly Newsletter - Issue #25
I can't copy it, so if anyone can provide what she stated, would be appreaciated.
Then I received the following:
Rudy writes:
Recently I read my weekly AFA e-mail. This one was written by a Tracy Kali, a BOS based F/A. I enjoy reading literature dealing with “organizing†from both sides of the fence, Delta and the AFA. If I didn’t, who else would look out for my best interest?
Many of you may not have had the chance to read Tracy’s letter, so here’s a quick summary.
#1 - Tracy begins her letter with some dollar amounts that she quotes as “real live†figures from AFA represented F/As at five different AFA represented airlines from their W-2 forms. She shows the average hour amount flown a month, the dollar amount earned, and the number of years each flight attendant has. Tracy explicitly writes, “W-2’s don’t lie.â€
This F/A lacks much needed information when simply talking about a "W-2 form." Other factors can play into income as well; did all or some of the F/As on Tracy’s list fly in the Flight Leader position? Did all or just a portion of the F/As fly transoceanic, international, domestic, or a combination? Are some F/As counting time away from base and 401(k) contributions and company contributions as “income†while others aren’t? From a true “income†perspective, time away from base pay and 401(k) contributions are not counted on a W-2 form in Box 1 as income (unless you’re in a Roth 401(k). This can make a big difference, especially if you contribute 35% into the 401(k) like I do. My W-2 looks very meager and pitiful, but my Fidelity 401(k) statement shows the true accumulated wealth over 21 years of saving which has never been counted as “income†yet. Some F/As may put 2% in a 401(k) in 2007 while others max it out every year as I do.
Base pay and hourly pay account for most of a F/A’s income. At UAL they earn $37.82/hour and NW is at $39.76/hour at the top of the pay scale. Both of these airlines, however, don’t even see these max-amounts per hour until they finish 14 (UAL) and 15 (NW) years. Currently at DL we reach the $37 an hour mark in our 11th year of service and at the 12th year we max out at $41.06. Both UAL and NW F/As must work 2 to 3 years longer than we do to attain top pay and it’s still less per hour.
Tracy shows that a particular Delta F/A with 31 years averaged 85 hours per month and earned $42,000 in calendar year 2007. This could be true, depending how the W-2 is formulated. But if we simply multiply 1020 hours (number of hours for the year @ 85 hours a month) by $41.06 we come up with $41,881. I guess this F/A only earned hourly pay and nothing more, which is ridiculous.
#2 – Tracy writes “NW F/As negotiated 3-6% (depending on seniority and age) 401(k) contributions without any employee contribution. Delta contributes 2% with a match up to 5%. So, at my age and longevity at Delta I get 2%. At NW, I would be getting 5%.â€
What Tracy quotes is correct. But I think Tracy has it turned around, I’d say NW won the negotiation of the 3-6% contribution amount to the F/As. Let me explain. NW calculates the sum they contribute to each employee on a sliding scale basis. This calculation is figured by adding the number of years of service and your age together. If this figure is less than 40 – your contribution by NW into your 401(k) will be 3%. If the sum falls between 40-59 your contribution by NW is 4%. If the sum is between 60-79 your percentage is 5%, and any sum of age and years of service over 79 receives a 6% contribution.
You can feel free to calculate where you’d fall percentage wise. Delta’s contribution scale is simple and more to your advantage. Here’s why:
No matter how many years of service or what your age is, Delta contributes 2% and matches up to 5%. So even if I am a new hire my total potential is 7%. There are no waiting or playing scale games to maximize one’s full savings potential. Don’t forget, F/As at both Delta and NW have frozen pension plans, and all of us are finding ourselves in a sector of industry that has lost more money than it has made since the inception of commercial air travel in the late 1920s, so we must save for ourselves first. Lord knows we can’t count on Social Security or a full pension.
New hires certainly aren’t rolling in the dough, but even if a new hire starts contributing a mere 2% into their 401(k), he or she would be ahead of a NW F/A by a percentage point immediately. Saving is a good thing, and Delta gives us the incentive to save. Another aspect of money that can’t be discounted is the savings potential you have with Delta earning a higher contribution at an earlier age. These dollars, over the span of a career, can turn into hundreds of thousands dollars. NW did some good bargaining on this issue.
#3 – Tracy says, “NW F/As don’t have short term disability and there is a good reason, they don’t need it. They have a bank of up to 1200 hours. That’s more than a year of paid leave and it carries over from year to year. We may have short term disability but if given the choice, what would you negotiate?â€
What Tracy fails to mention is that to obtain that 1200-hour bank, you’d have to have 33 years of seniority without ever having called in sick a single time during those 33 years. NW F/As accrue 3 hours per month or 36 hours per year and have no separate sick time, so if you sick out on a 15 hour trip once per year, you’d be using up 15 out of those 36 hours so you’d be racking up 21 hours instead of 36 and at 33 years seniority, leaving you 693 hours, not 1200 hours. If you have ten years of seniority and had never called in sick, you’d have 360 flight hours in your bank.
Delta F/As get 42 hours per year of personal time that can be used for any reason and if you don’t use it, you can get a check at the end of year and get that money in an account with compounding interest. Delta F/As also get a Certified Time Bank with 100% pay protection after the first 7 days.
#4 - Tracy writes, “I think $43 a month is a sound investment for our future.â€
First we need to look at the past and present. The AFA hasn’t been able to save pension plans nor avoid pay cuts for their flock. As of today, for the most part, Delta is keeping me and has kept me above the cuff in more areas of compensation compared to other AFA represented F/As. I realize every one of us looks at investing differently. Tracy views paying dues every month to the AFA as an investment for her future. I don’t. The AFA cannot guarantee me more money in the major areas of compensation for which Delta is now paying me. The AFA can’t even keep UAL or NW above my threshold and those members are stuck doling out $43 a month for the service, while still earning less than I do. Pick how many years you have with DL – invest $43 a month into an account and see how much you’d have, and this account has your name on it, not the AFA’s*.
5 yr - $3,168
10 yr - $7,823
15 yr - $14,662
20 yr - $24,711
25 yr - $39,477
30 yr - $61,173
35 yr - $93,051
40 yr - $139,891
*The above figures are based on an investment with an average return of 8% with a yearly deposit of $500 compounding once a year. The stock market return over the past century, including dividends, has been between 11% to 12%.
Rudy Schober
Danny Campbell
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- Mar 29, 2008
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Jakesworld:
In my opinion, there is nothing misleading at all with the NWA equation that was in the newsletter. Author, Tracy Kali clearly pointed out that we (at NWA) received an "equity claim" of 15,000 'in addition' to everything else. To answer your question about stock, yes, as part of bankruptcy negotiations, we resolved that issue and got the stock that we previously held in NWA "in addition" to the other items.
I think most Delta FAs are really confused by exactly WHAT an Equity Claim is, and why it is so important. When a group covered by a contract agrees to concessions, we do so with the understanding that we are going to GET BACK some of those LOSSES in the form a financial payment after we emerge from bankruptcy. So, in bankruptcy, we (our AFA union) makes a CLAIM based on a dollar amount that we gave up....and on the other side of the bankruptcy (emergence), we have that claim paid out to us. For example, your Delta pilots received a claim for 150k each. Delta FAs have NO CLAIM at all. So, unless you have a contract, you will NEVER see a cash value for the money that was taken from you. Sure, Delta will slowly restore some of your pay -- but is that really the same thing as getting VALUE for what you already gave up?
So, to put things in perspective, we received STOCK (could be several thousands - some people had close to 20k coming to them), plus an EQUITY CLAIM (over 15,000k), plus the value of our EARLY OUT SAVINGS (2,200), plus PROFIT SHARING (mine was 1,500 'after' taxes) All those things added into our earnings over the last year, puts us pretty far ahead of Delta FAs. On top of those things, we did not take a dime in pay cuts until the last month of 2005 (Dec) and each year of our 5 year contract, things are systematically restored. We are currently in the 3rd year of that contract. So, if you take a LONG VIEW of "8" years, you all have taken way deeper cuts than we have and you have not had any of those cuts returned to you (as an equity claim) and you have no guarantee that you won't take MORE CUTS over the next 3 years. We will NOT take any cuts in the next 3 years as we know what's in our contract (unless NWA went back into bankruptcy, which is unlikely).
Sam: will respond to your post next.
In my opinion, there is nothing misleading at all with the NWA equation that was in the newsletter. Author, Tracy Kali clearly pointed out that we (at NWA) received an "equity claim" of 15,000 'in addition' to everything else. To answer your question about stock, yes, as part of bankruptcy negotiations, we resolved that issue and got the stock that we previously held in NWA "in addition" to the other items.
I think most Delta FAs are really confused by exactly WHAT an Equity Claim is, and why it is so important. When a group covered by a contract agrees to concessions, we do so with the understanding that we are going to GET BACK some of those LOSSES in the form a financial payment after we emerge from bankruptcy. So, in bankruptcy, we (our AFA union) makes a CLAIM based on a dollar amount that we gave up....and on the other side of the bankruptcy (emergence), we have that claim paid out to us. For example, your Delta pilots received a claim for 150k each. Delta FAs have NO CLAIM at all. So, unless you have a contract, you will NEVER see a cash value for the money that was taken from you. Sure, Delta will slowly restore some of your pay -- but is that really the same thing as getting VALUE for what you already gave up?
So, to put things in perspective, we received STOCK (could be several thousands - some people had close to 20k coming to them), plus an EQUITY CLAIM (over 15,000k), plus the value of our EARLY OUT SAVINGS (2,200), plus PROFIT SHARING (mine was 1,500 'after' taxes) All those things added into our earnings over the last year, puts us pretty far ahead of Delta FAs. On top of those things, we did not take a dime in pay cuts until the last month of 2005 (Dec) and each year of our 5 year contract, things are systematically restored. We are currently in the 3rd year of that contract. So, if you take a LONG VIEW of "8" years, you all have taken way deeper cuts than we have and you have not had any of those cuts returned to you (as an equity claim) and you have no guarantee that you won't take MORE CUTS over the next 3 years. We will NOT take any cuts in the next 3 years as we know what's in our contract (unless NWA went back into bankruptcy, which is unlikely).
Sam: will respond to your post next.
So its possible that Luke was just confused when he/she mentioned :
"NOT TRUE. I received nowhere near 10K!!
Try half of that."
Luke, it was also based on how much you flew the year before...Did you take a leave? Not fly much?
that could have been the reason.
BTW my emergence award is based on flying around 73hrs a month and I am topped out.
Oh, and I fly International A/B
Danny Campbell
Advanced
- Mar 29, 2008
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Sam:
You wrote...How have the USair f/a's, both being afa, worked out their seniority? Was it straight DOH? Just curious, esp since the America West f/a's were so junior in comparison.
The USAir / Am West FAs seniority issues were handled rather quickly because AFA's Merger Policy was clear. Both maintained their "date of hire" seniority and that list was completely 2 years ago.
...I'm fine with DOH to a certain extent, if all things are equal, but in any merger the numbers change. What I'm more concerned about is relative seniority (you know..I've gotten very used to tues/wed off, no holidays, no weekends and I'd hate to see that change!!!)
With a 'fence agreement', such as the one in AFA's merger policy, your 'relative' seniority is not something that you have to worry about. With a fence agreement, the bases are protected -- which is where your seniority is important.
...I'm also wondering if DOH is the way to go, then why didn't the DL/NW pilots do that as well?
That's a good question for the pilots. Frankly, for the life me, I don't understand why ALPA doesn't bite the bullet and agree to DOH protection in their constitution. Seems to me they would have far less strife if they did. But, what do I know -- I'm just a flight attendant.
You wrote...How have the USair f/a's, both being afa, worked out their seniority? Was it straight DOH? Just curious, esp since the America West f/a's were so junior in comparison.
The USAir / Am West FAs seniority issues were handled rather quickly because AFA's Merger Policy was clear. Both maintained their "date of hire" seniority and that list was completely 2 years ago.
...I'm fine with DOH to a certain extent, if all things are equal, but in any merger the numbers change. What I'm more concerned about is relative seniority (you know..I've gotten very used to tues/wed off, no holidays, no weekends and I'd hate to see that change!!!)
With a 'fence agreement', such as the one in AFA's merger policy, your 'relative' seniority is not something that you have to worry about. With a fence agreement, the bases are protected -- which is where your seniority is important.
...I'm also wondering if DOH is the way to go, then why didn't the DL/NW pilots do that as well?
That's a good question for the pilots. Frankly, for the life me, I don't understand why ALPA doesn't bite the bullet and agree to DOH protection in their constitution. Seems to me they would have far less strife if they did. But, what do I know -- I'm just a flight attendant.
Danny Campbell
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Bababooy:
At NWA, our Equity Claim was determined by the actual amount of concessions we gave up. Our claim equaled 156 million, to be divided up among all NWA FAs that were on our seniority list at the time we gave these concessions.
Had Delta FAs had a union, your claim would have been FAR MORE than ours, because your concessions were far deeper. The ultimate reason this issue is an important one, is because in negotiations, you keep tabs on your losses. You use things like pay cuts, unit costs, your reimbursed claim, etc...to calculate the "climb" back to where you believe your pay and benefits are 'justified'. That is what our lawyers and economists at AFA are there for...to help calculate these things. According to David Borer, AFA General Counsel, there is 'plenty' of room for Delta FAs to negotiate - considering what you have given up and where your overall 'unit costs' currently are. You are the THE MOST productive FAs in the industry and at the same time, you have THE LOWEST unit costs of any legacy carrier.
At NWA, our Equity Claim was determined by the actual amount of concessions we gave up. Our claim equaled 156 million, to be divided up among all NWA FAs that were on our seniority list at the time we gave these concessions.
Had Delta FAs had a union, your claim would have been FAR MORE than ours, because your concessions were far deeper. The ultimate reason this issue is an important one, is because in negotiations, you keep tabs on your losses. You use things like pay cuts, unit costs, your reimbursed claim, etc...to calculate the "climb" back to where you believe your pay and benefits are 'justified'. That is what our lawyers and economists at AFA are there for...to help calculate these things. According to David Borer, AFA General Counsel, there is 'plenty' of room for Delta FAs to negotiate - considering what you have given up and where your overall 'unit costs' currently are. You are the THE MOST productive FAs in the industry and at the same time, you have THE LOWEST unit costs of any legacy carrier.
Danny
With all due respect we will have to agree to disagree on this. If you read the news letter Tracy seems to imply that the salaries listed were base salaries. Tracy does note the NW equity claim, although I think I am fairly educated and did not feel it was clear that this amount was included in the NW salary. Also, it seems that she is implying the salaries listed for AS, UA, HP, or US are base salaries. In listing the DL salary she only showed the hourly rate for 85 it is very misleading. If she or the AFA had added the appropriate pay for the DL listing as well the newsletter could have carried some wieght. Considering how many DL AFA activist accuse DL of not being factual, this is no better. This is "MY" opinion only.
It had nothing to do with standing up for yourself. Again, you are guilty of DISTORTION in your postings. Claiming things in a post that you said you put forth in the prior posting which you did not. Glossing over items brought to your attention by twisting the truth.You exaggerated your pay by by 3-5K by your own admission. Yes, you are an offensive, passive-aggressive, sychophant. There is absolutely NOTHING you can say to make me change my mind. YOU are what's wrong with this company and with this department. YOU bring nothing to the table but more of the same. All in all I'd say you're nauseating. There's nothing worse than a phony.
This will be my last address to you because you aren't worthy of my time.
BOOY--You "know" me from these boards. I am fairly even keel and have never "blown my top". Sarcastic sometimes, yes. But never angry. But you know what? Sometimes it's ok to get angry. I'm certainly not comparing myself to Him, but in the Bible, Jesus got angry at the money changers, turning over their tables. There is nothing wrong with fighting for what you believe, what you want and calling people out who are, what I call, table-turners. As far as getting personal, I only know of this person Jake by what he writes. That is a reflection of who he is but not the totality of who he is. I'm sure part of him is ok. But with regard to what he writes and his passive-agressive, phony tactics I have to call it like I see it. He wants an honest discussion yet he distorts the truth himself and not just about his salary...about his very arguments on this board.
I think you need to understand that Delta AFA activists are operating without any money, on a volunteer basis and in a battle where the deck is automatically stacked against them (getting a majority of cards signed by other f/a's and not in a work place, the cards expire in a year, the vote is approved and yet there is no requirement to vote "no", you just toss it in the trash)--this is a big mountain to climb and for you to not cut a break for your fellow Delta FAs who are fighting for what they believe is in not only their best interest, but yours as well against such odds is a bit rigid and unforgiving. The anti-union FAs have a multi-million dollar company to back them up. A company with lots of money and anti-union consultants at their ready (which they pay millions to). Please try to put yourself in the activists' shoes. Do you think they are giving so much of themselves just to fill their time?? I'll try to go back to keeping my cool if you try to be a little more tolerant and understanding of the human condition.
Thanks
Danny Campbell
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- Mar 29, 2008
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To All:
Several of the items in the "Rudy" piece are not accurate. For example, the statement that it takes 30 years to reach our 1200 maximum Sick Bank. That's not quite true - and here's why...
Our current accrual rate (3:00 per mth) is a NEW thing for us (as part of the 5 yr concessionary contract). Prior to this, we accrued 5:00 per mth. Or, in other words, 60:00 hrs of sick leave year. Believe me, we intend to negotiate that BACK at the end of this 5 year agreement.
There are many other items that Delta is putting out that are not accurate either - like saying we don't have Ground Time (not true, we do), or that we don't get per diem for turns (not true - we only gave them up for the first 2 years of the contract) or that we have to earn more hours for FMLA (not true - we actually have to fly LESS than Delta, because all our Sick, Vacation, etc... counts towards our total). The list goes on and on - but Delta's spin masters (from the firm Ford & Harrison) have done a clever job distorting the truth. In fact, that is WHY Tracy and others used "W2" earnings in her calculation - because it captures the TRUTH about what people earned in 2007. If you want to know the truth about whether people are really better off with an AFA contract, the only REAL place to find that answer is to look at; 1. Your W2 earnings and 2. How many days you had to fly to reach those earnings. For FAs, these two items almost always tell you everything you need to know.
Several of the items in the "Rudy" piece are not accurate. For example, the statement that it takes 30 years to reach our 1200 maximum Sick Bank. That's not quite true - and here's why...
Our current accrual rate (3:00 per mth) is a NEW thing for us (as part of the 5 yr concessionary contract). Prior to this, we accrued 5:00 per mth. Or, in other words, 60:00 hrs of sick leave year. Believe me, we intend to negotiate that BACK at the end of this 5 year agreement.
There are many other items that Delta is putting out that are not accurate either - like saying we don't have Ground Time (not true, we do), or that we don't get per diem for turns (not true - we only gave them up for the first 2 years of the contract) or that we have to earn more hours for FMLA (not true - we actually have to fly LESS than Delta, because all our Sick, Vacation, etc... counts towards our total). The list goes on and on - but Delta's spin masters (from the firm Ford & Harrison) have done a clever job distorting the truth. In fact, that is WHY Tracy and others used "W2" earnings in her calculation - because it captures the TRUTH about what people earned in 2007. If you want to know the truth about whether people are really better off with an AFA contract, the only REAL place to find that answer is to look at; 1. Your W2 earnings and 2. How many days you had to fly to reach those earnings. For FAs, these two items almost always tell you everything you need to know.
Danny, back during the last campaign (2001-02), this Rudy Schober was doing the same spinning on a site called the Freedom Force.
This is nothing new. He went into full-on battle mode at precisely the same time 6 years ago...a couple of months before the vote.
Whether or not Delta is paying him for his time, I don't know. But as I can see.....he's baaaaack.
Thats an easy deal. No problem.. I am sure it can be frustrating.
As far as the post from "Rudy" I believe its important to put it out there
to dissect what is true and what isn't. Just like Danny is doing. Thank you.
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