Those Silly Pilots

[Tim Nelson]

What did you consider "true" and "non disputable"?

Since, we have found out that the company lied about their financial condition, that they simply used a crisis to achieve something they could not do through lawful means, that of concessions. They actually celebrated when the first tower fell.

After the first go-around, they found out they could have gotten more, so, publicly, they announced that another go was on the agenda in order to "gain more concessions from unions under chapter 11".

I find it difficult to see your attempted correlation of union killing company when the company makes those kind of statements.

You seem incredibly unhinged from reality, sir.

It's true that Unions 'could' have sunk it. Unions have that type of power. Unions still can sink it. I didn't say that the unions did sink it because management sunk it only to be resessitated with an infusion of high dollar oxygen. The unions chose not to sink it due to its weakened economic stance resulting from membership losses.

A case could be made that it would have been fair and equitable for the unions to sink US AIRWAYS back in 2003. Most likely it would have preserved industry jobs and Airline management integrity and accountability. Because the unions chose not to sink US AIRWAYS, the whole industry is now polluted with corporate gweed growing faster than ever before.

Remember, the US AIRWAYS "Wall Street" model worked! Wall Street tried this with Eastern and it failed, but the US AIRWAYS unions bluffed and backed down and allowed a complete and utter unjust situation to occur. After the dam was allowed to break, United, NW, and Delta followed it.

OTOH, Charlie Bryan and the fighting machinist at Eastern had foresight and decided Eastern's future. This 'cleansing action' preserved industry jobs so that many of his Eastern members had the opportunity to continue to find decent paying industry work at other airlines. Now, because the unions chose for the first time to go through bankruptcy by bowing down to injustices, the whole industry is on spoiled ground. If I mechanic loses his job now, where to go??? If a pilot loses his job now, where to go?

At any rate, the unions decision not to wield its power and stop the cancer from spreading, was a result of their dwindling economic position in the culture because of 'painful' losses in membership numbers.

regards,

 

[ussnark]

It's true that Unions 'could' have sunk it. Unions have that type of power. Unions still can sink it. I didn't say that the unions did sink it because management sunk it only to be resessitated with an infusion of high dollar oxygen. The unions chose not to sink it due to its weakened economic stance resulting from membership losses.

Are you talking about, what? Unions? Companies? Clarify the above, please.

Unions would be hard pressed to sink any company, though they are often awarded the blame, Eastern/IAM for instance. For me, Easterns shameful slide was publicly signaled by the hiring of Borman. That is not meant to be a comment on Borman himself, but a comment on the reasons the Board felt it necessary to hire such a high profile hero (hero at that time). Bryan/IAM is often tagged with the cause of Easterns demise, but I'm pretty sure I could present a credible argument otherwise. I bet you could logically think it through to the same conclusion I came to, also.

Many blame unions for the difficulties experienced by auto makers. I would tend to blame managements decisions to deploy high dollar (high yield) products and ignoring the wants and needs of their customer base, something unions have nothing to do with. I could make similar arguments about certain airlines........

 

[Tim Nelson]

Are you talking about, what? Unions? Companies? Clarify the above, please.

Unions would be hard pressed to sink any company, though they are often awarded the blame, Eastern/IAM for instance. For me, Easterns shameful slide was publicly signaled by the hiring of Borman. That is not meant to be a comment on Borman himself, but a comment on the reasons the Board felt it necessary to hire such a high profile hero (hero at that time). Bryan/IAM is often tagged with the cause of Easterns demise, but I'm pretty sure I could present a credible argument otherwise. I bet you could logically think it through to the same conclusion I came to, also.

Many blame unions for the difficulties experienced by auto makers. I would tend to blame managements decisions to deploy high dollar (high yield) products and ignoring the wants and needs of their customer base, something unions have nothing to do with. I could make similar arguments about certain airlines........

The IAM didn't put eastern on its collision course but IMO it put the last nail in the coffin, as well it should have. As far as the auto makers, the unions are partially to blame. They pimped Delphi so bad that its members couldn't be laid off. When there wasn't any work, Delphi had to continue employing thousands of workers. These workers did NOTHING but pick up a check as they spent 40 hours each week 'sitting in the cafeteria'. Of course, the public has to flip the bill for it in higher cost.

The AFL has also effectively bleed off the construction and trade jobs so that now the AFL is going after the illegal immigrints for associate membership. Once that deal is sealed then the AFL will secure more members but at the jobs of its previously skilled tradesmen.

regards,