Trump Tax Cuts

[Dog Wonder]

What is a sensitive and artistic Okie like you doing in a place like this?

 

[Dog Wonder]

They do some fine dancing in Oklahoma!

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Meanwhile in NYC - THEIR 20 year Senators are insuring that they have a safe, reliable and affordable way of commuting to their jobs in the city by making sure Amtrak is funded.

We all now what a reputation Amtrak has for safety.

http://www.economics21.org/html/amtrak-bill-continues-history-wasted-subsidies-1263.html
Amtrak has cost the government over $45 billion in subsidies over the last 44 years, allowing it to finance the upkeep of unprofitable routes, overstaffed trains, and the mismanagement of its food services.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/05/13/11-things-the-media-wont-tell-you-about-amtrak/
Amtrak Is Not Under-Funded, It Is Criminally Mismanaged
The average onboard employee made $41.19 an hour on Amtrak in 2012, while railroads that contracted out services to private companies paid their employees $7.75 to $13.00 an hour.

Why should I have to subsidize a business that pays it's employees $28 (in 2012) dollars an hour over their competitors for a service I don't even use?

Amtrak is nothing more than a money laundering scam for the Democratic Party.

 

[KCFlyer]

We all now what a reputation Amtrak has for safety.

http://www.economics21.org/html/amtrak-bill-continues-history-wasted-subsidies-1263.html
Amtrak has cost the government over $45 billion in subsidies over the last 44 years, allowing it to finance the upkeep of unprofitable routes, overstaffed trains, and the mismanagement of its food services.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/05/13/11-things-the-media-wont-tell-you-about-amtrak/
Amtrak Is Not Under-Funded, It Is Criminally Mismanaged
The average onboard employee made $41.19 an hour on Amtrak in 2012, while railroads that contracted out services to private companies paid their employees $7.75 to $13.00 an hour.

Why should I have to subsidize a business that pays it's employees $28 (in 2012) dollars an hour over their competitors for a service I don't even use?

Amtrak is nothing more than a money laundering scam for the Democratic Party.

AND YET People in the Northeast keep sending representatives and senators BACK Washington year after year to make sure that it gets funded. I don't own a farm....why am I subsidizing a farmer to grow a crop I don't even eat? Or better yet....why do I pay a farmer to NOT grow a crop? But here in the heartland, we love our farm subsidies because that's not wasteful spending....that's money that benefits US.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Airlineforums.com deleted my post.

Maybe you could find a forum with simpler rules.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I don't own a farm....why am I subsidizing a farmer to grow a crop I don't even eat?

You don't eat crops? I find that a little hard to believe.

Or better yet....why do I pay a farmer to NOT grow a crop?.

I assume this was supposed to be a fair way to regulate crop growth. Otherwise all the farmers would want to grow is low maintenance high yield crops. It would be unfair through regulation to allow one farmer to grow certain crops with expected high yield profit margins while denying others. There is also the benefit of expanded dietary options to the general public.

I don't support most social programs but farm subsidies as a form of regulation is something I absolutely do support. I think we as a country ALL benefit from them, much like the public education system.

 

[KCFlyer]

I don't support most social programs but farm subsidies as a form of regulation is something I absolutely do support. I think we as a country ALL benefit from them, much like the public education system.

And yet the right wants to abolish the public education system and instead go to a 'voucher' program.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

And yet the right wants to abolish the public education system and instead go to a 'voucher' program.

I don't think they want to abolish anything. I think they want expanded education options for children attending failing schools. From what I have observed the left's biggest issue with the voucher program is they don't want public funds used for schools that teach religious theology.

What are the specific issues you have with the voucher program?

 

[KCFlyer]

I don't think they want to abolish anything. I think they want expanded education options for children attending failing schools. From what I have observed the left's biggest issue with the voucher program is they don't want public funds used for schools that teach religious theology.

What are the specific issues you have with the voucher program?

A lack of a fair opportunity. IF every family gets a voucher - all looks fair but it ends up that those who can't afford more than the voucher amount will STILL find themselves in a failing school. And the schools are failing because conservatives want "proof" that their tax money is being well spent - so the gave us no child left behind and standardized tests. So for 6 months of a 9 month year, kids are being "taught the test" so that everything looks better at rating time. God forbid that they actually allow kids to think and reason...they might turn out to be liberals.

Plus....just like "welfare moms" pump out babies to cheat the welfare system, if government vouchers go to private "educational institutions", if becomes a breeding ground for abuse of taxpayer money. You know...Corintian College...Everest University....ITT Tech.....Trump University. Except this would be in the elementary thru high school ranks.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

A lack of a fair opportunity. IF every family gets a voucher - all looks fair but it ends up that those who can't afford more than the voucher amount will STILL find themselves in a failing school. And the schools are failing because conservatives want "proof" that their tax money is being well spent - so the gave us no child left behind and standardized tests. So for 6 months of a 9 month year, kids are being "taught the test" so that everything looks better at rating time. God forbid that they actually allow kids to think and reason...they might turn out to be liberals.

Plus....just like "welfare moms" pump out babies to cheat the welfare system, if government vouchers go to private "educational institutions", if becomes a breeding ground for abuse of taxpayer money. You know...Corintian College...Everest University....ITT Tech.....Trump University. Except this would be in the elementary thru high school ranks.

OK KCFlyer,

You have made some good points.

You are right when you say educating someone to pass a test is detrimental to what the end goal of education should be.

I do take issue with your allusion that teaching critical thinking skills leads to liberalism.

I would like to state my position on a few statements you have made.

My state recently asked for a 1% sales tax increase to give our underpaid teachers a $5,000 dollar raise. In fact that would not even come close to bringing them inline with their peers. Even our local teachers were very vocal on Facebook stating they do NOT support OK SQ 779.

I read just yesterday that Deborah Gist was hired by the Tulsa School board. The BASE pay for the position was increased from 175K per year to 235K per year (25.5% or $60K).

Her compensation package also includes a tax sheltered annuity contribution of $25,000, an annual auto and cellphone allowance of $18,000, and a taxable expense account of $18,000.
It also provides $25,000 for relocation expenses, an annual performance bonus of up to $25,000, plus a retention bonus of $75,000 if she finishes the full three years of the contract.

Oklahoma plays a con game of asking for money (first it was tax, then the lottery, then casino's, then another tax) each time claiming they will use the funds to shore up our education system however, as soon as they get what they want they defund it from somewhere else. Rinse and repeat. I personally know two teachers that quit and have started new careers because working conditions were so bad
here.

I have stated many times to friends and family that Oklahoma's education system has been "weaponized" to extort money from the taxpayers with no real intent of ever fixing the funding issue.

You state there will be abuse of tax payer money but from my perspective that is already happening.

I will admit that having a Republican ran education system in Oklahoma has been a dismal failure (* with a few exceptions I will discuss below).

That being said I believe teacher's UNIONS and tenured teachers have their own set of problems but, that is a discussion for another day.

* I noticed you made a comment about ITT tech. So my question is do you frown on tech schools in general or do you have an issue with them specifically because of the recent allegations of misconduct and the bankruptcy filing?

I ask because I attended Tulsa Tech during and post American Airlines and in my opinion it really opened a lot of doors for me. I can tell you one of my classmates at Tulsa Tech just took a job paying over 80K a year as a result of his Tulsa Tech education. Tulsa Tech also provides many A&P's to American Airlines. I would say Tulsa Tech is a combination public/ private school (public and free for HS students, adults must be accepted and must pay tuition) and works very well. Maybe this is a good middle ground to the charter school issue.

I would also like to state we have a tax funded program here called Tulsa Community Work Advance. I had considered this as an option (The CnC program) when deciding what to do post American Airlines. I can't speak to the quality of all of their programs but I can say the CnC program was taught at Tulsa Tech which I feel was a very high quality school. Work Advance basically provides "living support" and educational opportunities at local tech and trade school's to people in a disadvantaged situation (which in my opinion is a GOOD form of welfare).

If you have a generally negative opinion of Tech schools I wish you would reconsider.

 

[KCFlyer]

OK KCFlyer,

You have made some good points.

You are right when you say educating someone to pass a test is detrimental to what the end goal of education should be.

I do take issue with your allusion that teaching critical thinking skills leads to liberalism.

I would like to state my position on a few statements you have made.

My state recently asked for a 1% sales tax increase to give our underpaid teachers a $5,000 dollar raise. In fact that would not even come close to bringing them inline with their peers. Even our local teachers were very vocal on Facebook stating they do NOT support OK SQ 779.

I read just yesterday that Deborah Gist was hired by the Tulsa School board. The BASE pay for the position was increased from 175K per year to 235K per year (25.5% or $60K).

Her compensation package also includes a tax sheltered annuity contribution of $25,000, an annual auto and cellphone allowance of $18,000, and a taxable expense account of $18,000.
It also provides $25,000 for relocation expenses, an annual performance bonus of up to $25,000, plus a retention bonus of $75,000 if she finishes the full three years of the contract.

Oklahoma plays a con game of asking for money (first it was tax, then the lottery, then casino's, then another tax) each time claiming they will use the funds to shore up our education system however, as soon as they get what they want they defund it from somewhere else. Rinse and repeat. I personally know two teachers that quit and have started new careers because working conditions were so bad
here.

I have stated many times to friends and family that Oklahoma's education system has been "weaponized" to extort money from the taxpayers with no real intent of ever fixing the funding issue.

You state there will be abuse of tax payer money but from my perspective that is already happening.

I will admit that having a Republican ran education system in Oklahoma has been a dismal failure (* with a few exceptions I will discuss below).

That being said I believe teacher's UNIONS and tenured teachers have their own set of problems but, that is a discussion for another day.

* I noticed you made a comment about ITT tech. So my question is do you frown on tech schools in general or do you have an issue with them specifically because of the recent allegations of misconduct and the bankruptcy filing?

I ask because I attended Tulsa Tech during and post American Airlines and in my opinion it really opened a lot of doors for me. I can tell you one of my classmates at Tulsa Tech just took a job paying over 80K a year as a result of his Tulsa Tech education. Tulsa Tech also provides many A&P's to American Airlines. I would say Tulsa Tech is a combination public/ private school (public and free for HS students, adults must be accepted and must pay tuition) and works very well. Maybe this is a good middle ground to the charter school issue.

I would also like to state we have a tax funded program here called Tulsa Community Work Advance. I had considered this as an option (The CnC program) when deciding what to do post American Airlines. I can't speak to the quality of all of their programs but I can say the CnC program was taught at Tulsa Tech which I feel was a very high quality school. Work Advance basically provides "living support" and educational opportunities at local tech and trade school's to people in a disadvantaged situation (which in my opinion is a GOOD form of welfare).

If you have a generally negative opinion of Tech schools I wish you would reconsider.

I don't have a problem at all with tech schools...only ones like ITT Tech that ripped off students and taxpayers. THAT's my concern of what a voucher system might lead to. When a "for profit" entity has access to taxpayer $$$, many of them can succumb to greed. The problem is - we hate paying for a "bloated government", so we won't hire people to investigate and prevent fraudulent use of tax dollars...

I am a huge believer that not everybody is "college material" for a business degree and actually favor tech schools and trade schools. Someone who could care less about learning advanced algebra in order to get his marketing degree might be a phenomenal HVAC guy, aircraft mechanic, auto mechanic or plumber. And those guys can make decent money. I work in IT and I had a friend who told me his son who was graduating was leaning towards IT. I advised him against it. Code can be written anywhere in the world for less money. The biggest impact for H1B visa holders, who keep down wages is in IT. I told him that if he wanted to work with technology, learn HVAC so he can install and repair the technology in those systems. It's harder then hell to outsource your air conditioner repairman.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I don't have a problem at all with tech schools...only ones like ITT Tech that ripped off students and taxpayers. THAT's my concern of what a voucher system might lead to. When a "for profit" entity has access to taxpayer $$$, many of them can succumb to greed. The problem is - we hate paying for a "bloated government", so we won't hire people to investigate and prevent fraudulent use of tax dollars...

I am a huge believer that not everybody is "college material" for a business degree and actually favor tech schools and trade schools. Someone who could care less about learning advanced algebra in order to get his marketing degree might be a phenomenal HVAC guy, aircraft mechanic, auto mechanic or plumber. And those guys can make decent money. I work in IT and I had a friend who told me his son who was graduating was leaning towards IT. I advised him against it. Code can be written anywhere in the world for less money. The biggest impact for H1B visa holders, who keep down wages is in IT. I told him that if he wanted to work with technology, learn HVAC so he can install and repair the technology in those systems. It's harder then hell to outsource your air conditioner repairman.

Good advice. Tell him to learn the automation systems side of that. Building automation (power, HVAC, etc.) is huge and good people are in demand in the public and private sector. The same systems control automation in manufacturing systems at plants.

 

[Dog Wonder]

OK KCFlyer,

Y

I I My I I. I my. I I I I my I I. I my I I I I I I I

You can see so little in Tulsa, you think you have seen it all..

 

[Seatacus]

You don't eat crops? I find that a little hard to believe.

I assume this was supposed to be a fair way to regulate crop growth. Otherwise all the farmers would want to grow is low maintenance high yield crops. It would be unfair through regulation to allow one farmer to grow certain crops with expected high yield profit margins while denying others. There is also the benefit of expanded dietary options to the general public.

I don't support most social programs but farm subsidies as a form of regulation is something I absolutely do support. I think we as a country ALL benefit from them, much like the public education system.

Wouldn't you think that these subsidies are a form of price fixing. Why not let the market determine the price. Let the farmers grow what they want.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Wouldn't you think that these subsidies are a form of price fixing. Why not let the market determine the price. Let the farmers grow what they want.

Otherwise all the farmers would want to grow is low maintenance high yield crops. There is also the benefit of expanded dietary options to the general public.