Twu Pro-union Local

[PlayTheOdds]

Dan, I was wondering if you could enlighten me on an issue I just can't seem to grasp. I have read the posts here and some on the AA board, It seems that they all hate the TWU and every other union you can think of, Yet they support them with an undying passion. I just thought you could shed some light on that for me.

 

[Dan Cunningham]

Dan, I was wondering if you could enlighten me on an issue I just can't seem to grasp. I have read the posts here and some on the AA board, It seems that they all hate the TWU and every other union you can think of, Yet they support them with an undying passion. I just thought you could shed some light on that for me.

PTO,

I could spend months explaining the dynamics of what makes me tick as an individual, a worker in the United States of America (USA), and a unionist, but I feel my explanations will be inadequate to "enlighten" anyone on why the "system" is the "system" and how it survives given the knowledge everyone has of it's shortcomings. Suffice it to say that many unions are bankrupt as a voice of the workers because they use a form of governance that dictates from the top down what shall be done. I am not a subscriber in that form of top down, dictatorial, totalitarian, toe-the-line, mystical belief in the system, organizational structure.

Many people feel the need to have someone tell them what to do, what to believe, and etc... These peoples understand the failures of the system to address certain issues, but hope that the system will not, some day, victimize them. I sometimes envy those that are willing to let an organization as corrupted as, say, the twu, to represent their employment interests even though widespread corruption within the organization and with regard to representation issues with the company are well known.

Recently I read a quite enlightening piece regarding the Tupac Amaru and the Shining Path communist/socialist organizations both located in Peru. The Tupac Amaru believe in a socialistic/communistic style of economic system, but hold strong to the ideal that democratic involvement of the peoples is required to make this system work from the bottom up. The Shining Path use the twu, iam, and other industrial union organizational structure of dictating from on high what the party line shall be in their would be communistic based utopia and trashing any dissenters. This totalitarian organizational structure is what has, in my opinion, been one of the determinant factors in the total collapse of the union movement. People are getting tired of "unelected" leaders stealing from them, at all levels of government.

For that reason many people choose to support the AMFA over any other currently established union. I am one such person. To have the company work hand in glove with the twu to terminate me is an indicator of how corrupt this system has become. Perhaps it was this corrupt from the start in 1946. I do not know about then, but I can speak to what I have witnessed since 1990, and it makes me sick. However, I was raised not just to complain and whine about something I found distasteful, but to do something positive about it. For that reason, in my opinion, I was unlawfully terminated from my employment by a company seeking to protect their toy-union.

There is the summary. This only skims the surface.

Dan Cunningham

 

[PlayTheOdds]

That was very much my assumption of the situation, thank you for clarifying that for me. You then must agree that the only way to reverse the situation is to rid the industry of the existing unions. They have done nothing that I have seen that has had a positive impact on the industry as a whole for years. They have divided the work groups and themselves to the point that they are absolutely useless. Personnel greed in the upper echelons dictate the current contracts and strategic movements thus giving the members no vote over policies that directly affect their employment. The only hope for a union in our industry is one that is built from the ground up by the people of the industry.

The NWA/AMFA battle has set the stage for this to happen. Other companies will follow suit and you will see more and more unions eradicated from the industry. This will allow the companies that honestly wish to restructure to do so while the others will either liquidate or be bought up by other companies. When the dust settles then is the time to build a new union for the people remaining in the industry.

We scabs are not destroying the industry, we are destroying the current path it is on. This will take many years to happen so the people had better be prepared for a rough ride. It would make things much simpler for the members to go ahead and vote the unions out but from your post we know that will not happen.

 

[Opus]

PTO,

I could spend months explaining the dynamics of what makes me tick as an individual, a worker in the United States of America (USA), and a unionist, but I feel my explanations will be inadequate to "enlighten" anyone on why the "system" is the "system" and how it survives given the knowledge everyone has of it's shortcomings. Suffice it to say that many unions are bankrupt as a voice of the workers because they use a form of governance that dictates from the top down what shall be done. I am not a subscriber in that form of top down, dictatorial, totalitarian, toe-the-line, mystical belief in the system, organizational structure.

Many people feel the need to have someone tell them what to do, what to believe, and etc... These peoples understand the failures of the system to address certain issues, but hope that the system will not, some day, victimize them. I sometimes envy those that are willing to let an organization as corrupted as, say, the twu, to represent their employment interests even though widespread corruption within the organization and with regard to representation issues with the company are well known.

Recently I read a quite enlightening piece regarding the Tupac Amaru and the Shining Path communist/socialist organizations both located in Peru. The Tupac Amaru believe in a socialistic/communistic style of economic system, but hold strong to the ideal that democratic involvement of the peoples is required to make this system work from the bottom up. The Shining Path use the twu, iam, and other industrial union organizational structure of dictating from on high what the party line shall be in their would be communistic based utopia and trashing any dissenters. This totalitarian organizational structure is what has, in my opinion, been one of the determinant factors in the total collapse of the union movement. People are getting tired of "unelected" leaders stealing from them, at all levels of government.

For that reason many people choose to support the AMFA over any other currently established union. I am one such person. To have the company work hand in glove with the twu to terminate me is an indicator of how corrupt this system has become. Perhaps it was this corrupt from the start in 1946. I do not know about then, but I can speak to what I have witnessed since 1990, and it makes me sick. However, I was raised not just to complain and whine about something I found distasteful, but to do something positive about it. For that reason, in my opinion, I was unlawfully terminated from my employment by a company seeking to protect their toy-union.

There is the summary. This only skims the surface.

Dan Cunningham

Dan, I agree with much of what you say; however I have some questions and comments.
No union can be on the side of the company to the detriment of the workers, nor can it be on the side of the workers to the detriment of the company because neither situation will benefit the workers in that union. I feel we have and are seeing examples of both situations.

I do not know of one single union which has written into its by-laws that the highest paid union leaders can only make a reasonable set stated percentage over the highest paid union member, and at least 1/2 to 2/3 of all dues should go to a members assistance fund which should cover strike pay or help needed for members who experience catastrophic situations, further I dont know of one single union which is willing to get rid of members which abuse their union protection, which should be a privilege, by way of not doing a job they are represented to do or intentional slow downs to "punish" some supervisor or manager, I have watched these things happen and it sickens me.

I realize most of the conversations on this thread are about amfa so lets look at the no strike fund, alot of union problems always come down to the money. If dues were charged on a weekly basis here is an example 4000 members at 30.00 per week multiplied by 52 weeks is 5 MILLION 760 THOUSAND DOLLARS PER YEAR, if dues are bi-weekly it would be 4000 members at 30.00 per bi-weekly paycheck is 3 MILLION 120 THOUSAND DOLLARS PER YEAR, AND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN NWA ONLY, yet either way it is what economic help has amfa rendered or been able to render to its members. A union should be MEMBERS FIRST executives last, but not one single union operates like this, as for amfa where did all the money go??? Why isnt Delle's pay set by union bylaw at say 150% of the highest paid member, if members can live on it why cant the big cheese? With these questions I do not in any way mean to exclude twu or iam or uaw or any of them. It just doesnt seem that unions are for the workers but for the union exec's. If I am wrong or misguided please tell me, this is in part one of the reasons I have the union views I have and see very little difference in amfa.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Why isnt Delle's pay set by union bylaw at say 150% of the highest paid member, if members can live on it why cant the big cheese?

Why do you care about Delle? Isn't it true that before the strike you and PTO had no affliation with NWA or any union? From your amfanuts postings, are you KNOBBY? Why not educate yourself before you write, Delle's salary last year was $132k or twice the average salary of the unions members. Now Terry Harvey Assistant National Director made $103K despite working 90 hour weeks from March through August on an election and negotiations. Not a lot of money. AMFA even reimbursed airlines for benefits, unlike the twu. AMFA officers did not get paid by the airline, unlike the twu.

Read it yourself....

http://erds.dol-esa.gov/query/getOrgQry.do

type in Aircraft Mechanics, 2004, lm2

 

[Bob Owens]

PTO,

I could spend months explaining the dynamics of what makes me tick as an individual, a worker in the United States of America (USA), and a unionist, but I feel my explanations will be inadequate to "enlighten" anyone on why the "system" is the "system" and how it survives given the knowledge everyone has of it's shortcomings. Suffice it to say that many unions are bankrupt as a voice of the workers because they use a form of governance that dictates from the top down what shall be done. I am not a subscriber in that form of top down, dictatorial, totalitarian, toe-the-line, mystical belief in the system, organizational structure.

Many people feel the need to have someone tell them what to do, what to believe, and etc... These peoples understand the failures of the system to address certain issues, but hope that the system will not, some day, victimize them. I sometimes envy those that are willing to let an organization as corrupted as, say, the twu, to represent their employment interests even though widespread corruption within the organization and with regard to representation issues with the company are well known.

Recently I read a quite enlightening piece regarding the Tupac Amaru and the Shining Path communist/socialist organizations both located in Peru. The Tupac Amaru believe in a socialistic/communistic style of economic system, but hold strong to the ideal that democratic involvement of the peoples is required to make this system work from the bottom up. The Shining Path use the twu, iam, and other industrial union organizational structure of dictating from on high what the party line shall be in their would be communistic based utopia and trashing any dissenters. This totalitarian organizational structure is what has, in my opinion, been one of the determinant factors in the total collapse of the union movement. People are getting tired of "unelected" leaders stealing from them, at all levels of government.

For that reason many people choose to support the AMFA over any other currently established union. I am one such person. To have the company work hand in glove with the twu to terminate me is an indicator of how corrupt this system has become. Perhaps it was this corrupt from the start in 1946. I do not know about then, but I can speak to what I have witnessed since 1990, and it makes me sick. However, I was raised not just to complain and whine about something I found distasteful, but to do something positive about it. For that reason, in my opinion, I was unlawfully terminated from my employment by a company seeking to protect their toy-union.

There is the summary. This only skims the surface.

Dan Cunningham

To me the TWU mirrors Corporate Structure. Top Down structure, the members are the Commodity. We exist to benifit them, provide them with six figure salaries, perks, benefits etc.

 

[Opus]

Why do you care about Delle? Isn't it true that before the strike you and PTO had no affliation with NWA or any union? From your amfanuts postings, are you KNOBBY? Why not educate yourself before you write, Delle's salary last year was $132k or twice the average salary of the unions members. Now Terry Harvey Assistant National Director made $103K despite working 90 hour weeks from March through August on an election and negotiations. Not a lot of money. AMFA even reimbursed airlines for benefits, unlike the twu. AMFA officers did not get paid by the airline, unlike the twu.

Read it yourself....

http://erds.dol-esa.gov/query/getOrgQry.do

type in Aircraft Mechanics, 2004, lm2

Amfaman, I have referenced 1 amfanuts post ONLY ONE not multiples, and your link when amfa is searched leads to "Error No Reports Found" for any report search I attempted. Why do I care, because I researched amfa before crossing the picket line, before making my decision about what I should do, but you know what, I found amfa members screaming about past behavior on amfa's part (the-mechanic.com), I found member calling baggage handlers names (articles from several search engines), from when amfa broke away at NWA, I found members screaming about the million dollar beach house in Florida that is supposed to belong to Delle (the mechanic.com), amfa members ridiculing amfa for lack of strike fund (articles and the-mechanic) I wish there was a union out there that I could respect, one that operated from a basis of intellect and knowledge and genuine membership benefit and not from executive arrogance and executive excess. You have not said where the money is. Could be big bonuses? As a professional A&P if amfa had not portrayed the arrogant we are better than everyone else in the whole of aviation and had been an actual honest benefit to the members I would have picketed alongside the amfa members as would the rest of my family. We stand up for what we believe in and I believe that a real union is needed in labor today one that actually is void of class arrogance one that is organized for the members not just touting democracy how about a union that practices financial democracy one that reaches out to all classes not insulates itself creating a membership void for its members thereby weakening it, a union that actually works to have legislation for the entire industry not just talk about it.

To me the TWU mirrors Corporate Structure. Top Down structure, the members are the Commodity. We exist to benifit them, provide them with six figure salaries, perks, benefits etc.

So the exec's of the twu are the ken lay's and the members are the enron employees?? THAT SUCKS, but what makes it so much worse is doing it behind the guise of a union helping its members.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Amfaman, I have referenced 1 amfanuts post ONLY ONE not multiples, and your link when amfa is searched leads to "Error No Reports Found" for any report search I attempted.

Try again...try file number 000-302, fiscal year 2004, report type Lm2. Very easy, it's comes right up. For someone who claims to do a lot of research, you should know how to pull financial data before ignorantly writing about it.

I found members screaming about the million dollar beach house in Florida that is supposed to belong to Delle

Show some proof - Florida homes are on a database and you can pull a tax report if such a home exists.

I wish there was a union out there that I could respect

Too late, you're a SCAB...Only the twu would have you now.

Could be big bonuses?

Your ignorance is amazing, labor unions are held to a higher standard than corporations for reporting financial data in this country; it's all in the LM2.

We stand up for what we believe in and I believe that a real union is needed in labor today

Let me guess, you want the IAM back and you old cushy job. You don't want a union, you're a SCAB.

 

[Emil.Howes]

Why do I care, because I researched amfa before crossing the picket line, before making my decision about what I should do, but you know what, I found amfa members screaming about past behavior on amfa's part (the-mechanic.com), I found member calling baggage handlers names (articles from several search engines), from when amfa broke away at NWA, I found members screaming about the million dollar beach house in Florida that is supposed to belong to Delle (the mechanic.com), amfa members ridiculing amfa for lack of strike fund (articles and the-mechanic) I wish there was a union out there that I could respect, one that operated from a basis of intellect and knowledge and genuine membership benefit and not from executive arrogance and executive excess.

DoPus,

AMFA Constituton

Page 36
*******************************************************
944 SECTION 9 – National Officer Salary
945 A) The salaries of full time National officers shall be based on percentages of the AMFA
946 represented aircraft technicians' average salaries (including all applicable premiums) as
947 follows:
948 National Director 200%
949 Assistant National Director 185%
950 National Secretary 180%
951 National Treasurer 180%
952 Safety and Standards Director 165%
953 Regional Directors 165%
954 Industrial Safety Coordinator 155%
955 Maintenance Standards Coordinator 155%
956 Division Coordinator 155%
957 Assistant Secretary and/or Treasurer Regular rate of pay
*******************************************************

Also, for your edification, Local 9 Officers are paid ‘straight time’!!!
No OT for those 14-16 hour days and working Saturday-Sunday!!!
I believe this is not right for our Local Officers but ‘The Membership’ has determined that this is the way it is.
I’m happy that these dedicated individuals accept the position without extra compensation because it shows their resolve in support of ‘Unionism’!!!

Ask Dan how much AMFA spent to help him get his job back after the twu/aa union fired him?
Ask some of the NWA strikers how much AMFA has supported them on this Strike?

If I have a question about one of our Officers, I would not post some anonymous derogatory comment on the internet, as most cowards would do. I go to the 'meetings' and if I have a question, I ASK, novel idea eh?

You are also aware that the UAL AMFA has recalled one of their Officers and a recall can be accomplished by the ‘Membership’ at any time.

Is AMFA Perfect?
Depends on 'The Membership'!!!

Go back to the ‘amfanuts’ and ‘The-Mechanic’ website of ‘anonymous posters’ (except for Dennis Sanderson aka ‘The-Mechanic’) for your unbiased and empirical research data. Who is the amfanuts ‘amfanator’? Yet another anonymous entity with ‘zero’ credibility!!!

I hope your ability to fix aircraft is better than your ability to ‘research’ AMFA.


-BigE

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Delle's salary last year was $132k or twice the average salary of the unions members. Now Terry Harvey Assistant National Director made $103K Read it yourself....

Those are some real nice numbers AMFAMAN. I'm just wondering what happened to the millions that are collected every year. Why is there no strike fund? Why is AMFA collecting hand outs?

 

[Hackman]

Those are some real nice numbers AMFAMAN. I'm just wondering what happened to the millions that are collected every year. Why is there no strike fund? Why is AMFA collecting hand outs?

PlaytheCods , the dues that are collected every year mostly go back to the local. Your such a smart scab, you could do some of your own research (other than iam's 'Nuts BB) and find out why AMFA decided not to have a strike fund, its all there. Take some time while you sit in your scab hotel room and attempt to educate yourself instead of babbling off like a deranged idiot.

I see your getting close to my own number of posts here on this deliteful BB short of two months, simply amazing, the life of a scab. Getting cold yet?

 

[AMFAMAN]

Those are some real nice numbers AMFAMAN. I'm just wondering what happened to the millions that are collected every year. Why is there no strike fund? Why is AMFA collecting hand outs?

Why do you care, afterall the strike has created a job that could never hold before?

But to answer your question, the strike fund was once again voted on and turned down by the membership in 2004, instead some locals having chosen to throw in large sums of cash each month. At AA, we are going to do a raffle to raise a very large amount of money for the strikers for the holidays but still won't be much with the number of strikers. There are no beach houses or private jets and race cars such as the IAM has and nobody is getting rich with 100k a year for 90 hour weeks.

Now using Opus's numbers of 3.2 million a year, without using any of that money would be $600 a NWA member, not alot at all. You surely know that majority of the money goes to the locals, the rest is left with the National for salaries, negotiations, legal fees such as arbitrations, and more. All of this is on the LM 2's for the National and the locals. Because of the bandwith restrictions of this site, I can't post them and there are no direct links on the DOL site, just searches.