U.S. May Ease Rule On Labor Vote

[Dignity]

Your answer is easy, take a look at SWA, the most highly unionized airline, with a terrific relationship with their management, the highest paid, and most successful.

Their Union is not the one currently representing our group or wanting to come onto the property of the combined
airline.

That is always the typical comparison, look at WN, look how great they have their Union/Company relationship...

and you know I agree.

however,

If you want to know how effective our Union really is then look at the contracts they have negotiated.

If you want to know how the relationship this particular Union has at the airlines they represent...

Do not focus on just one,

rather all of them.

Your management feeding you crap that you can't have a union and remain happy and work together with a union is a fear tactic, and you buy into it.

The Union made us a lot of promises during the representational campaign,

such as having experience in bankruptcy and the ability to restore items..

what ended up happening was taking PFAA agreement

adjusting the valuations.

We still had the full 195 million concession in place and stamped their name on the front cover of the agreement..

Then turned around and gave us a dues increase.

The group rejected their agreement and TA3 barely passed.

We nearly lost 180 million when they never fully explained the equity claim to the group.

The same people right now who are running around demanding we must continue course..

were the same people who voted No both times to their agreement.

When you say No to an agreement you say No to everything, including Scope.

These same people did not have enough trust at the time claiming a Union was needed..the most critical time in our careers, yet today are peddling Industry Leading Contract and creating a newly created work environment that will be confrontational once again.

The company secured the full amount they were asking for with a Union on the property.


I know exactly what I am talking about,

in the future so will the DL Flight Attendants with this Union.

The truth is all going to unfold, so either people can appreciate being given a heads up or not.


I know right now they create a work environment that is not focused always being positive or supportive
based on what I have witnessed since they arrived on the scene and this past year.

My personal opinion and conclusion.

They are not effective.

Stop drinking their kool-aid or you will drown yourself. Lets take a look at AA UAL SWA right now, they are negotiating their entrie contracts, you will never be able to do that, they will give you enough to make you happy and nothing more, you wont negotiate anything, as much as you want to believe you do. It's really just grade school logic and brainwashing, but it has seemed to work all these years..

I will support what will allow and maintain a positive working enviroment going forward.

We are in the service industry, focused on safety first and excellent customer service.


Goodgirl,

I hope you have good luck achieving your goals at UAL.

I recently read you are to receive new uniforms and service upgrades.

I hope that is not only a positive boost for morale at your company but also benefical for your customers.

 

[goodgirl37]

Goodgirl,

I hope you have good luck achieving your goals at UAL.

I recently read you are to receive new uniforms and service upgrades.

I hope that is not only a positive boost for morale at your company but also benefical for your customers.

I am sorry Dignity, but I dont buy your hyperbole.

 

[southwind]

Yes, b/c we need a morale boost, lol, give me a break, we are not like Delta sweetie, where a new uniform or a laptop, will solve underlying issues. Our service is already above and beyond what Delta offers, and unlike you, I am not concerned about the customer, we get them from point a to point b safely... that is our job. We dont need luck achieving our goals Dignity, it is negotiations, i know from your management standpoint, it is like nails on a chalkboard, but thankfully, we are not naive enough to believe the hyperbole. I think I should wish you good luck though, you seem like you may need some luck of the irish, SO GOOD LUCK TO YOU!!

Bet you my paycheck you worry about customer concerns................when your the customer !

I'm sure the next time you go out to eat and the waiter tells you to blow it out your a_ _, you'll say, "That's ok, just make sure my food gets from point A to point B with out spilling it on the floor"....................after all ,that is his primary job, right ?

 

[BABABOOY]

Once again I will ask goodgirl
Why do you care what those of us at Delta are doing?
just curious. btw "Not concerned about the customer?" hmmmmm
easy difference between UAL and Delta. "Service above and beyond?"
by what metric? Most onboard survey's show UAL near or at the bottom.
I guess by your postings we know why.
oh here is one:
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/rele...aspx?ID=2009121
"3. Delta Airlines.
For what it’s worth, the two lowest-rated airlines were U.S. Airways and United."

 

[goodgirl37]

Once again I will ask goodgirl
Why do you care what those of us at Delta are doing?
just curious. btw "Not concerned about the customer?" hmmmmm
easy difference between UAL and Delta. "Service above and beyond?"
by what metric? Most onboard survey's show UAL near or at the bottom.
I guess by your postings we know why.
oh here is one:
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/rele...aspx?ID=2009121
"3. Delta Airlines.
For what it’s worth, the two lowest-rated airlines were U.S. Airways and United."

Yes, and we the flight attendants carry that leverage, without scare tactics.. You, do not.......

 

[jalbalpa]

I recently watched an interview on CNBC, they went around and asked passengers in an airport about their loyalty to airlines and what they look for when they purchased tickets. I didn't hear anyone say aything about loyalty...everyone said "I go with whoever gives me the best deal".

Give 'em cheap tickets!

Everytime I hear legacy carrier this legacy carrier that I think of all the $$$$$$$$ these carriers are losing because of the aged mentality that anyone really gives a hoot about service anymore.

They want to get from point A to point B for the least amount of money.

I recently had a guy on my flight, he was going FAR-MSP-ATL-MEM-DFW because it was $15 cheaper then going FAR-MSP-DFW.

This is the world we live in, adapt or fail...I hope the people at the top get it.

 

[justanadd]

what ended up happening was taking PFAA agreement adjusting the valuations.

We still had the full 195 million concession in place

You fail to mention that PFAA had already agreed to the 195 million and the Judge would not allow that amount to be changed!

Maybe had PFAA not been so selfish and saw that they were in over their heads and accepted AFA's help we wouldn't have had to stick to the 195.

 

[Dignity]

They want to get from point A to point B for the least amount of money.

frequent flyers the ones who fly exclusively with a particular airline to accrue mileage?

business travelers?

those who just simply enjoy an airline service and appreciate the schedules?


(the frequent flyer loyalty base is huge)

just count the elites on the spil each time you fly!

usually most if not all of business class are those folks and a good half in coach!

 

[Dignity]

You fail to mention that PFAA had already agreed to the 195 million and the Judge would not allow that amount to be changed!

no I have not!

I have mentioned they were the ones who gutted our contract.

I know exactly what happened being stuck right in the middle of that mess!


1. PFAA did not acknowledge anything for two full years.

2. PFAA gutted our contract.

3. PFAA TA 1 failed.

4. AFA promises they will guide us through bankruptcy due to their experience

5. AFA is voted in

6. AFA negotiates TA 2 and it fails

7. The judge imposed PFAA TA 1 after the group rejected AFA 2.

8. The imposed terms of PFAA TA 1 were in place during the negotiations of TA 3 but that was not the case during the negotiations process of AFA TA 2.

9. AFA TA 3 barely ratifies.

10. IF AFA TA 3 did not ratify, you could rule out unionization 100 percent at this time.

conclusion:

AFA had the opportunity to show what they were made of while negotiating TA 2 realizing the promises made, and they did not deliver. This is not a personal opinion,

as the group rejected their agreement.

Maybe had PFAA not been so selfish and saw that they were in over their heads and accepted AFA's help we wouldn't have had to stick to the 195.

well I do agree they were way over their heads but a lot of the Flight Attendants did not help the situation by refusing to pay their dues.

(so much for claiming to do the right thing for the group at that time!)

the worst part are those who claimed to be life long "Unionists" and ended up running around
promoting not to pay them a dime and then turn around ran for office and
got elected!

It is literally unbelievable to me..

but they lost dues check off so there you go.

true colors shown.


the point I was making was all the promises made during the campaign and there were plenty of them that did not come to fruition.

and what was the groups reaction after they opened up TA2 and saw exactly what was negotiated?

rejected.

(after we had just voted to put them on the property)

many people believed they were to save the day and bought it all.



PFAA negotiated/gutted TA1

AFA negotiated TA2 and TA3

blaming someone else only make them appear ineffective and great at making
excuses.

I am starting to see a pattern here..

(especially after this past year..starting with that ridiculous seniority lawsuit)

it is sad to me because I was willing to give them a second chance up until they started with the typical same ole, same ole.. right after they had just said they were excited about the merger only to take a different course and pulling the request finalized it.

I would rather someone just be realistic and tell it exactly how it is, while fully explaining everything in detail, such as the equity claim we nearly lost.

now the new line is..

Industry Leading Contract.. to get DL on board.

 

[Dignity]

Yes, and we the flight attendants carry that leverage, without scare tactics.. You, do not.......

scare tactics?

they, Union activists keep telling people we are going to be outsourced to foreign nationals!


do you have any idea how outsourcing would reflect on IFS if that actually happened to US citizens and those who have a legal right to work in the USA?



it would make the airline appear,

1. they dont know who they hire or hire anyone who shows up.

2. they dont really care about customer service if they need to replace
everyone.

3. they dont instill core values in their people which = their product!

4. the company sucks.

That in itself would ruin the image!

I do not think they are that reckless with their good name!

 

[Dignity]

I am sorry Dignity, but I dont buy your hyperbole.

You dont have to buy one word I write or even say!

but that does not dismiss,

it is the truth.

 

[jalbalpa]

I guess the fact that these same people tried to impose it on you just a few years back means nothing.

Lets all just be happy ot have a job, work at wages 40% below what they were 5-6 years ago and vote out the union because the are looking out for the best interest of the membership.

You might not agree with pulling the request from the NMB...but it was the right thing to do.

Sometimes what is best is not what you want, I am glad they pulled the plug. Delta management has poisoned this election, as they did the other 2 elections.

Vote NO, but remember....when sh!t hits the fan and there is NOBODY there to back you up....don't come crying!


You might think life is all nice and dandy at Delta, it is until it comes time for a raise or workable living conditions...


Be ready for your 16 hour days, be ready for trip averaging, be ready for issues with FMLA-disability-health insurance etc..., be ready to fight for your job anytime someone accuses you of doing something....its always your word against theirs....i hope your manager will believe you and not them.

Most of all...you think you're tired of fighting now? This is nothing compared to you having to fight for you survival at Delta...just nobody gets to hear about it.

 

[goodgirl37]

I guess the fact that these same people tried to impose it on you just a few years back means nothing.

Lets all just be happy ot have a job, work at wages 40% below what they were 5-6 years ago and vote out the union because the are looking out for the best interest of the membership.

You might not agree with pulling the request from the NMB...but it was the right thing to do.

Sometimes what is best is not what you want, I am glad they pulled the plug. Delta management has poisoned this election, as they did the other 2 elections.

Vote NO, but remember....when sh!t hits the fan and there is NOBODY there to back you up....don't come crying!


You might think life is all nice and dandy at Delta, it is until it comes time for a raise or workable living conditions...


Be ready for your 16 hour days, be ready for trip averaging, be ready for issues with FMLA-disability-health insurance etc..., be ready to fight for your job anytime someone accuses you of doing something....its always your word against theirs....i hope your manager will believe you and not them.

Most of all...you think you're tired of fighting now? This is nothing compared to you having to fight for you survival at Delta...just nobody gets to hear about it.

Don't bother, let them learn the hardway. There are alot of DAL mgmt on here cheerleading it up..

 

[Dignity]

I guess the fact that these same people tried to impose it on you just a few years back means nothing.

the initial concession proposal was no where near what we ended up with.

(they did not ask for 195 initially)

we ended up with 195 after they increased it twice.

most of that probably happened because they, Union kept ignoring the need to do something/anything.

the bottom line.

they got their full 195 and we got a dues increase.

Lets all just be happy ot have a job, work at wages 40% below what they were 5-6 years ago and vote out the union because the are looking out for the best interest of the membership.

that is pretty much where we are at right now, but we are paying for it!

You might not agree with pulling the request from the NMB...but it was the right thing to do.

it is considered the right thing to do.. for someone who feels they may have an advantage,

that is the only conclusion.

keep in mind this election is up to us, the members,

not an entity looking for an edge.

we should be voting, actually we should have already resolved this issue.

Sometimes what is best is not what you want, I am glad they pulled the plug.

I am not glad they pulled the plug, you are glad they pulled the plug.

just because you think its best, does not make it so.

just because I think it is not, does not make it so.

so that comment was a personal opinion not what is actually,

best.

(either way)

I think it wasnt the right thing to do, while having another election ongoing at the same time following
the same format.

how is one election considered fair, and our election is not?

Delta management has poisoned this election, as they did the other 2 elections.

after doing a little research..

that seems to be the case whenever they, Union lose, I am sorry but I am seeing a trend here.

its coming across sour grapes at this point!

Vote NO, but remember....when sh!t hits the fan and there is NOBODY there to back you up....don't come crying!

keep in mind we have a group of very strong people who display real leadership ability daily. I hardly think
you will find anyone come crying rather keeping doing their job being professional.

I guess I just have more faith in the group than others.

for some they will always need someone to look out for them and hold their hand through life.

supporting the group is one thing... being scared of your own shadow,

thinking everyone is out to get your job,

is not displaying real leadership ability.

(this is just my opinion)

You might think life is all nice and dandy at Delta, it is until it comes time for a raise or workable living conditions...


Be ready for your 16 hour days, be ready for trip averaging, be ready for issues with FMLA-disability-health insurance etc...,

some will always see a situation differently than others, some will view something fair others will find it unfair, in the end it is all personal perspectives based on how they see it.

its always like that regardless..

be ready to fight for your job anytime someone accuses you of doing something....its always your word against theirs....i hope your manager will believe you and not them.

personally not scared to deal with any thing people make up trying to get someone in trouble.

you always tell the truth.

because,

(the truth...always comes out...it may take some time...it will always come out eventually)

Most of all...you think you're tired of fighting now? This is nothing compared to you having to fight for you survival at Delta...just nobody gets to hear about it.

the majority will decide how to proceed.

personally I am just not scared of the results of the election.

 

[jalbalpa]

Ok Dignity...go ask Greg Papke how he loves his direct relationship with nowhere to turn. Like I said...vote NO, its your right.

Perhaps there is a reason that over 5,000 Delta flight attendants voted YES for representation just 1 year ago. If everything was so great, there wouldnt even have been an election.

People get suspended left and right at Delta, with no pay, and for whatever length of time management wants them out. Some get to come back, some don't.

But please, don't let any of this stop us from moving forward in this merger...because Richard said this is what is best for us. I'm still trying to figure out what it is that is beneficial for us in this merger...besides a few additional destination....