UA transfers its two DAL (Love Field) gates to Southwest; Is DL out?

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FWAAA said:
I agree. But there's a wide gulf between the way things are, and the way things should be.

In 2006, I was appalled at the compromise that resulted in WN controlling 80% of the gates, leaving AA and XJT just two each. But Congress and the President have the power to ratify ridiculous agreements that would violate lotsa laws in the absence of the lawmakers' ratification.

The WARA was a loss for consumers nationwide and a big victory for Southwest Airlines. In the old days, WN's interests and consumers' interests were more closely aligned, but these days, high-fare WN with costs not terribly lower than its legacy competitors wins at the expense of competition.

Perhaps DL will lobby Congress to re-write the WARA and maybe DL's lobbyists can convince the current President (or the next one) to sign the revised legislation. I forecast permanent peace in the Middle East as a much more likely scenario.
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and as a lawyer and even as a high school graduate, you also know that there is 3rd branch of the gov't that is intended to serve as checks and balances to the other two.

if antitrust laws are being broken, they can be corrected in the courts.

If the law is flatly not accomplishing what it was intended to do or has swung completely to the opposite extreme, it can be changed by Congress.

If the DOJ sees fit to challenge something as anticompetitive, they can act

NO BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT LOSES ITS POWER BECAUSE ANOTHER FAILS TO ACT.

Whether anyone saw it coming or not, WN controls 95% of the seats - a number on par with what AA controls at DCA and DL controls at LGA - and yet neither of those two carriers controls anywhere close to the number of gates or have prevented other carriers from gaining access to those airports.

how anyone could see that reality and think that WN is home free at DAL is simply living in complete ignorance of the US governmental system as well as common sense.
 
FWAAA said:
I agree. But there's a wide gulf between the way things are, and the way things should be.In 2006, I was appalled at the compromise that resulted in WN controlling 80% of the gates, leaving AA and XJT just two each. But Congress and the President have the power to ratify ridiculous agreements that would violate lotsa laws in the absence of the lawmakers' ratification.The WARA was a loss for consumers nationwide and a big victory for Southwest Airlines. In the old days, WN's interests and consumers' interests were more closely aligned, but these days, high-fare WN with costs not terribly lower than its legacy competitors wins at the expense of competition.Perhaps DL will lobby Congress to re-write the WARA and maybe DL's lobbyists can convince the current President (or the next one) to sign the revised legislation. I forecast permanent peace in the Middle East as a much more likely scenario.
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The end.

Also +1
 
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no, the end is that WN is on shakier ground than ever regarding DAL.

any airport that is 95% controlled by one carrier and where others can't get isn't anywhere near the end of the story.

when the carrier that benefits from that monopoly used the argument that it needed access to LGA and DCA - both of which have alternate airports it the region which WN could have expanded at - you can bet your bottom shekel that the carriers that were forced to give up slots to WN are not going to take it on their back or knees.

at least one of them is not.
 
then you should have learned that any branch of the government could deal with the fact that WN controls 95% of the seats at an airport where there is no legitimate means for competition and where WN has nearly as many seats as the top carrier are at the US' highest most restricted access airports

WN's dominance of DAL will fall.
 
WorldTraveler said:
looks like someone slept thru American government class.
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its not sleeping during government class. He didn't say the government couldn't do something, but that they wouldn't do anything. 
 
Nothing done under Obama says the DOJ is going to ever step in with anything WN does. IMHO if it wasn't for public out cry nothing would have even been done about the roofs coming off there 737s. 
 
WorldTraveler said:
then you should have learned that any branch of the government could deal with the fact that WN controls 95% of the seats at an airport where there is no legitimate means for competition and where WN has nearly as many seats as the top carrier are at the US' highest most restricted access airports

WN's dominance of DAL will fall.
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Outside of a drastic change in thinking this is simply a pipe dream. WN is the governments love child. Was under Bush, is under Obama and will be under the next president. Said the mass media has the majority of the population buying into the lie the WN is some low cost cheap airline when they aren't. Till public opinion changes nothing is going to happen.
 
Delta, American and United are the bad guys. Southwest is the good guy. It not even remotely close to true but the public sees it that way and the government pushes that.  IMHO WN could get the two Virgin gates and no amount of kicking and screaming from Delta is going to change it. Good that you have faith in this administration to do a complete 180 on......well basically everything they have done......but I don't believe Obama and co give the smallest of craps about what is happening at DAL or MDW for that matter.  
 
WN is a love child because it continues to try to paint the picture of itself as a champion of competition and the people.

the whole mess with DAL proves that WN is full of marketing fluff which is not supported by facts and your employer is not only not amused but will take EVERY opportunity to prove how wrong WN is in its image of itself and ensure that lawmakers, judges, and everyone else knows what WN really is - which is a company that has always sought to monopolize its markets far more than any legacy carrier and which uses that monopoly to charge higher fares than other carriers.

WN is NO friend of the consumer or competition and DAL will turn out to be the biggest proof of that.

Obama doesn't have to care. regardless of what he thinks of himself, he and his cabinet do not run the US in a vacuum.
 
WorldTraveler said:
no, the end is that WN is on shakier ground than ever regarding DAL.



.
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That is like saying DL is on shakey ground in ATL..
WorldTraveler said:
WN is a love child because it continues to try to paint the picture of itself as a champion of competition and the people.

the whole mess with DAL proves that WN is full of marketing fluff which is not supported by facts and your employer is not only not amused but will take EVERY opportunity to prove how wrong WN is in its image of itself and ensure that lawmakers, judges, and everyone else knows what WN really is - which is a company that has always sought to monopolize its markets far more than any legacy carrier and which uses that monopoly to charge higher fares than other carriers.

WN is NO friend of the consumer or competition and DAL will turn out to be the biggest proof of that.

Obama doesn't have to care. regardless of what he thinks of himself, he and his cabinet do not run the US in a vacuum.
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How many profitable quarters has WN produced? How many times has WN filed BK? What ever you want to call it, it's working and it galls you..
 
WN is not on shaky ground at DAL because of its track record of profitability.

It is on shaky ground because it has monopolized its home airport and excluded competitors just months after screaming about how deprived it was in not having as much access at DCA and LGA as the legacy carriers had.

Now that they have created a far worse monopoly at DAL with far more barriers for competitors, those competitors not only are determined they will get make certain that WN is known for what it really is - not the marketing images it wants to create - but will also do what it takes to make things right again.

just because the current DOJ has been a complete failure doesn't mean the situation will remain that way.

the only thing that is galling is the hypocrisy that WN has used.
 
WorldTraveler said:
WN is a love child because it continues to try to paint the picture of itself as a champion of competition and the people.

the whole mess with DAL proves that WN is full of marketing fluff which is not supported by facts and your employer is not only not amused but will take EVERY opportunity to prove how wrong WN is in its image of itself and ensure that lawmakers, judges, and everyone else knows what WN really is - which is a company that has always sought to monopolize its markets far more than any legacy carrier and which uses that monopoly to charge higher fares than other carriers.

WN is NO friend of the consumer or competition and DAL will turn out to be the biggest proof of that.

Obama doesn't have to care. regardless of what he thinks of himself, he and his cabinet do not run the US in a vacuum.
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In this case the do. All congress "could" do is change or repeal the bill. Even in that case he would have to sign it. (or congress get enough votes to by pass the veto) 
 
The DOJ side would require Holder to do something other than constantly try to start race wars or give guns to gangs for free. You have more faith in Obama and his band of fools if you honestly expect the DOJ/DOT than I do.

also wouldn't count on the court to do anything about it.  
 
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WOW!!!  WT you are a freakin moron.  SWA's dominance at DAL is soon to be gone?  Really?  You really are going off the deep end. Please keep posting your dumb-a$$ responces. You just gotta LUV this stuff man...
 
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the only morons are those that continue to spout that WN can do whatever it wants.

WN used its last modicum of political capital in order to finish off FL, increase access to DCA and LGA, and expand at DAL.

There is no way that WN can accomplish anything else under the guise of being pro-consumer or low fare.

WN's costs are no longer low enough to be profitable AND offer low fares.... and WN has demonstrated that profitability is far more important than offering low fares.

Everyone will see WN for what it is - which is to dominate markets and push up fares, a charge that WN was happy to throw at the legacy carriers and which the DOJ happily bought.


In this case the do. All congress "could" do is change or repeal the bill. Even in that case he would have to sign it. (or congress get enough votes to by pass the veto) 
 
The DOJ side would require Holder to do something other than constantly try to start race wars or give guns to gangs for free. You have more faith in Obama and his band of fools if you honestly expect the DOJ/DOT than I do.

also wouldn't count on the court to do anything about it.
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first, you do realize that Holder is out.

whether anyone else will be as stupid as him remains to be seen but Obama is on the verge of seeing his legacy disassembled not just in the US but also on the world stage by others who are determined to get things done the right way.

specific to aviation and DAL, it again is obvious to anyone that even has their eyes open that the DOJ botched the AA/US merger and handling of DAL to the complete benefit of one carrier who does not offer low fares when it dominates the market.

DL for now is happy to let WN run amok at DAL because they are inflicting so much damage on AA, as I said WN would do. Given that WN has fled from dozens of ATL markets and raised fares dramatically in others, DL is far better off than it was with FL, esp since WN has decided to use its resources to focus on AA.

They are just getting warmed up in Latin America - which will impact AA and UA far more than it could possibly impact DL.

but DL is not going to give WN an inch of room to do anything beyond what they are doing right now and will not hesitate for a minute to start the legal and legislative process to put WN back in its box if it does anything other than focus its competitive assaults anywhere but on AA and UA
 
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